37 replies to this topic

[PloKoon13]

I have recently heard a lot of talk about Nemanja Matic going out on loan, something which seems to have been confirmed in the last few hours.
Bearing that in mind, and also the departure of Michael Ballack, who is our backup defensive midfielder if Mikel gets injured?

This is something which has been troubling me since I heard about this loan move, and I wondered if anyone had any ideas, other than the idea of playing Essien or Ramires out of position.

[Barry Bridges]

I imagine Essien or Ramirez would slot in to CDM/Holding mid role if that occured, at which point Benayoun/Zhirkov or a youth could settle into the open midfield spot.

Ive always maintained Ivanovic would likely excel in the CDM role if given a chance, so thats a possible option to try out at cobham.


edit: haha just read your last sentence.... Sill think its the most viable option tho

Edited by Barry Bridges, 24 August 2010 - 12:06 AM.

[Eggy McMuffin]

PloKoon13, on 23 August 2010 - 11:54 PM, said:

I have recently heard a lot of talk about Nemanja Matic going out on loan, something which seems to have been confirmed in the last few hours.
Bearing that in mind, and also the departure of Michael Ballack, who is our backup defensive midfielder if Mikel gets injured?

This is something which has been troubling me since I heard about this loan move, and I wondered if anyone had any ideas, other than the idea of playing Essien or Ramires out of position.

Is 4-2-3-1 not the formation in vogue right now? It's most effective with a double pivot in the holding midfield players, meaning that either one can go forward, and the other drops in deep. Somewhat like what Germany played, and I believe Bayern played it against Wolfsburg too.

I see that as being the best option, but failing that there are others, we could use Mancienne there, although it'd be a bad idea against the better sides out there, and probably the more physical ones too. I wouldn't trust him there against Stoke on the weekend for example.

So yeah, 4-2-3-1, would be the best way to deal with that situation in my book. Something like this...

Cech

Ivanovich Alex Terry Cole

Ramires Essien

Lampard
Anelka----------------------------Malouda
Drogba

I think both Ramires and Essien would work well in that system, because we all know how disciplined Essien is when he has to be, which would mean Ramires could go forward if he had an opportunity to do so, and if I'm judging Ramires right on his games for Brazil, he'd do the same if Essien went marauding forwards. There may be occasions when both bomb forward, which would leave us exposed, but the hope then would be that Cole and/or Ivan would spot that and not go as far forward.

The main worry would be that it's a way of moving the play which requires training and practice, but I'd like to think that our players have the awareness to be able to cover each other in most eventualities.

[bluegraham]

you really worried about mikel? he wont be missed dont worry. he's mistakes might get brushed aside in the smaller games but he's a liability in the big games gives away silly free kicks and gives the ball away to much. we have plenty of cover.

[mad_mac]

Ah, more Mikel bashing when that wasn't the original question.

I think Eggy has it spot on. Play ramires and Essien back with Lampard just ahead of them. Whoever pushes forward out of the deeper laying midfielders can link up with Lampard while the other slots in to a more defensive role.

Also, Ivan had played a few games in the DM role prior to joining Chelsea.

[footballoholic]

I know Mikel has had a good start to the season, but i would expect Ramires to take his place anyways. Its harsh on him but whats the point in buying a Brazilian international who can run for 90 mins and sat him on the bench.

[Orangutan]

That's a strange question. What is your solution to this problem besides the solution that will actually be used if said problem arises? If I can't say Essien or Ramires, I would say Mancienne? He's still around, right? Allegedly.

[evissy]

Mikel's been very good from the start. I think Ramires can fill that spot or Essien. Would have we played Matic even if he was here and Mikel was injured? I don't think so.

[PloKoon13]

My reason for asking is that I don't see Ramires or Essien as pure holding midfielders, and I don't think that two box-to-box midfielders playing the two deep midfield positions would necessarily work that well. Also in a 4-3-3 with a single holding mid I don't think it would work either.

I seem to remember Ancelotti saying that Matic was going to step into Michael Ballack's boots as the odd job man around midfield, but mainly as the designated backup defensive midfielder. Without Matic, I don't think we have any other pure defensive midfielders in the squad which is risky when it is one of the pivotal roles around which we forged our success [albeit with Makelele].

Maybe we do have another signing in the works after all...

[Spiller86]

Hmm, Mancienne I'd suggest in the lesser games and Essien and Ramires as others have suggested in the big games. Obviously Malouda and Benayoun can cover in the middle as well, not to mention McEachran and Clifford though they may be a bit young yet. Alternatively we might bring in another midfielder, there's still a week to go.

I don't like the idea of Ivan being used as the CDM, it'd leave us very light for cover in the defensive line.

That said Mikel has been reasonably durable over the past couple of seasons, I'd be more worried about Essien being out long term and then coping a couple of injuries as we did last season. In that case we could be caught a little short, that said Carlo gets paid a lot to consider all of these options so I trust he'll go about it the right way.

[german-blue]

Both Ramires and Essien can play the holding role... that should be no problem.
Honestly if Ramires cant play the holding position, why did we sign him ??

[Gem]

Dance?

[Mikstaw]

We've got Essien and Ramires...

[Andreas]

Yeah don't think it's a question about wasting a player out of position when it comes to an inury, in big-games I would slot Essien there if I had to simply because he is a beast and he's got lots of experience from playing there.

[fester]

PloKoon13, on 23 August 2010 - 11:54 PM, said:

I have recently heard a lot of talk about Nemanja Matic going out on loan, something which seems to have been confirmed in the last few hours.
Bearing that in mind, and also the departure of Michael Ballack, who is our backup defensive midfielder if Mikel gets injured?

This is something which has been troubling me since I heard about this loan move, and I wondered if anyone had any ideas, other than the idea of playing Essien or Ramires out of position.

Out of international retirement will come I, if injury Obi-1-Mikel hits.

[sdsdsdsd]

Even if Mikel is fit, id think Essein moves back into the traditional holding position while Ramires floats and plays the position Essein is playing now. In the prem, id think those 3 players will rotate, with all 3 getting a decent go.

However in the champions league, id be more inclined to play the more experienced Essein as the holding midfielder. This is similar to what we did with Hiddink, Mikel started pretty much always in the epl, however in the champions league, we always played Ballack.

[ethicalstrategy]

Malouda played a lot in midfield last season so I don't think we have any problems with midfield. We have Mikel, Essien, Ramires, Lampard, Zirkhov, Malouda, Benayoun all covering three places and three of those can play defensive midfield if needed. Three can also play further forward as well.

[dkw]

fester, on 24 August 2010 - 09:11 AM, said:

Out of international retirement will come I, if injury Obi-1-Mikel hits.

Yoda?

[Spiller86]

ethicalstrategy, on 24 August 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

Malouda played a lot in midfield last season so I don't think we have any problems with midfield. We have Mikel, Essien, Ramires, Lampard, Zirkhov, Malouda, Benayoun all covering three places and three of those can play defensive midfield if needed. Three can also play further forward as well.

Good points ethical. I Forgot about Yuri, that said not sure he has the positional discipline to play in our midfield the way we normally play. If need be chuck Yuri on the left and move Malouda inside I say.

When you point out all those players we seem to have all the bases pretty well covered. I think maybe the reason people think we might be a little short of cover (me included) is that we still have the injury crises of last season fresh in our memories. Surely we can't have that bad a run again, so players shouldn't be as much of a problem as last season.

[PloKoon13]

The reason I specifically asked for solutions which didn't involve playing Ramires or Essien playing at DM for extended periods of time is because it's not really practical. Imagine if Mikel broke a leg, for example, and was out for a given number of months. It simply isn't practical to shunt Essien out of his preferred position for that amount of time. I think it would be to the detriment of the team.
My point is that we only have one player whose expertise is the defensive midfield position, one which is extremely important to the team as I'm sure you'll agree. If he is out for an extended period of time, then we are weakening other areas of the team to cover for him. Surely it would be wise to keep hold of Matic just in case? I'm not saying Essien cannot slot into the defensive mid position, I am saying that I'd much rather see him as the box-to-box destroyer, where he is a greater asset to the team than if he is stuck back in defensive midfield.
Would you really want to lose a player who is arguably our best for months on end?