336 replies to this topic

[dkw]

Nice article about Riccy, has nothing but good things to say about Chelsea. turns out he had a clause in his contract that said if a big club came in after 5 years he would be allowed to go if he wanted.

http://www.goal.com/...elsea-than-real

[BlueBeard]

Just read through this thread, and must say that I side with Barry Bridges and dkw on this one, though I've nothing against Virosh.

I, for one, was pleased when Joe Cole left Chelsea, in fact I'd wanted him to go for the previous two years. He could be a very good player on his day, only trouble was, he didn't have many 'days'. I still remember us losing at home with about 5 minutes to go (can't remember who against), and Chelsea were desperate for an equaliser. All except Joey, who thought the most important thing to do was try pathetic little flicks which never worked.

Joey was reportedly a Chelsea supporter since he was a kid, and was thrilled to leave the Spammers to come to the Bridge. He got adulation from the Chelsea crowd which he rarely deserved, then he goes to Liverpool and gobs off about their great support. Typical of most current day footballers, I'm afraid, no loyalty, no brains. If Joey gets a good reception when he returns to the Bridge, I'll be very disappointed, he should be given the same treatment that Poyet and Durie got.


Just for the record, Peter Osgood did give the Southampton fans a wave both at the Bridge and at the Dell, and we never held it against him - he never wanted to leave Chelsea, but the Saints fans obviously respected him. That's how it should be.

If Gianfranco had praised the West Ham support I wouldn't have held that against him either. When he left Chelsea, he did it with respect and dignity, making us love him all the more.

[yorkleyblue]

What Bluebeard said!

Though that was remarkably erudite and clearly written!  Well done, that man!

[Tea Bar Boy]

dkw, on 20 September 2010 - 11:20 AM, said:

Just not accepting sh*te like "Your comprehensive incapability aside" from any f**ker, or the fact he seems to think me and Barry had called Cole a w**ker, which neither of us have.

Fair point

[PloKoon13]

dkw, on 20 September 2010 - 11:39 AM, said:

Nice article about Riccy, has nothing but good things to say about Chelsea. turns out he had a clause in his contract that said if a big club came in after 5 years he would be allowed to go if he wanted.

http://www.goal.com/...elsea-than-real

Reading that made me smile. Top man.

[dkw]

PloKoon13, on 20 September 2010 - 01:52 PM, said:

Reading that made me smile. Top man.

It was brilliant watching him score Madrids first league goal under Jose with one of his charges up the field after the opposition had a corner, reminded me of the runs he used to do for us which I loved watching. He`s a frustrated winger im sure of it.

[Barry Bridges]

Virosh, on 18 September 2010 - 09:53 PM, said:

His views just happen to be shrill, unreasonable, immature and incostistent. Hence, keyboard warrior. I'm not denying him the right to his views, but I am perfectly entitled to giving my opinion on them.

Joe maybe deserves criticism for failing to specifically heap praise on our continuous support of him, but that hardly justifies the "w****r" branding, does it? I distinctly remember him mentioning that "fans loved him" when the news of him joining the dippers emerged. For all we know, he might have more good words to say about us, but his career is far from over and he's putting his image before his gratitude. For all we remember, he never said anything in praise of Spammers' fans back in 2003. I'm not excusing him for doing that, I think it's shameful and disrespectful to supporters, but it hardly deprives him of the courtesy of basic decency when talking about him.

Im not here to start a war with you, but I find my view to be justified and I accept how you see my view( I do not agree with that, but I understand your point and where you are coming from).  I hope you understand why I view your positions mindframe to  be similar to the mindframe of a boyfriend who grovels "im sorry, its my fault" to the girlfriend who just cheated on him. The scorn does not lay with us, it lays with the party who does wrong/is ungrateful for the good done to them.

Failing to heap praise?  He hasn't even said "thank you", 2 words, 8 letters. Thats almost as many letters are digits on his annual income, we helped to fund.

Basic decency would be saying "Thank you" after 7 years of great wages and support that very very few players, regardless of their skills, will get from their fans everytime they are seen.

If he cant give us the "basic decency" of saying "thank you", why the hell do we owe him the basic decency of a good reception/speaking well of him?  You act as if he gave more to Chelsea than he got back. He got how many millions with us?  How many trophies?  He may of helped, but Chelsea would of won without him (I can almost garauntee Jose/Carlo would say this) and he would not of had those things (even the wages wouldnt of been as good).

  I think he has no class, and if he cant be bothered to say those 2 words, why should I put any effort expect at all into praising/insulting him.  I might make the odd snide comment, but he is fair game imo. I've not called him a w**ker, I cant be bothered.....but I wouldnt say he isn't after the disrespect he has shown all of us.

I will say this, anyone worried more about their image than the gratitude they owe to people who helped given them a fantasy lifestyle, is a tosser.  8 year olds do this because they are embarassed to get kissed by their moms infront of friends, professional athletes should be over that mentality.

You really think Joe would go from "Anfield Messiah" to "#1 YNWA Enemy" because he said "Thank you" to his fans when he left?

Chippy, on 19 September 2010 - 08:50 AM, said:

I can see where Virosh is coming from and I still have a lot of respect for Joe and what he helped Chelsea achieve, I'ts never nice to see ex players in opposition colours but its no surprise to have any of them saying good things about their new employers and fans,

I liken it to moving into a new House and telling the new neighbours your old neighbours were better...you wouldn't do it and they don't pay your wages.

Thats not the comparison I'd use. We can stay with neighbours.  Now the old neighour (Chelsea FC) doesnt really give a toss about the new neighbours.  He moved from a 5 star neighbourhood to the ghetto, we dont care about the plebs and their neighbourly routines.  

However, as we the old neighbours who used to pay his property taxes, mow his lawn, bring in the papers/mail when they are out of town etc etc, we expect a "thank you" before/after they move....... thats all.  We never asked "Hey, make sure your new neighbours know they arent as good as us".  We never said " You better not be nice to them or anything, we'll feel betrayed".  No, we realise he needs to be friends with his new neighbours.  We just dont understand why he couldnt say thank you to the neighbours who treated him like a prince.



And thats what the "Pro Joe" side doesnt get.  We dont hate him for joinging Pool.  Some of us dont even care how much he talked them up (we laughed, but didnt care).  We just dont get why he couldnt say 2 words..... a total of 8 letters.... "Thank you".

And really, if we took out the name "Joe Cole", and mentioned a player who lacked any appreciation for 7 years of millions per year wages (despite long injuries), fantastic support (despite poor performances), and loads of medals..... even the "pro" side would be saying what a classless jerk that guy is.  I wouldnt even speak this much about him if I didnt have to justify myself to people for not repsecting him anymore.

Edited by Barry Bridges, 20 September 2010 - 08:50 PM.

[Chippy]

I won't quote your long post Barry but I'd just say I and a few Chelsea fans I know wish nothing but the best for the bloke and hope he is Pools best player for as long as he's with them.

I don't expect thank yous from players that move on, maybe we should be thanking him for what he gave us while he was here? don't get me wrong I think he was badly in need of a new challenge as he was looking less and less likely to get his form back to anything like his best and I am not gutted he left, what I would say though is he is one of many players that have left our Club that I would be happy to run into in a Pub and sit and have a drink with, not that I go to many Pubs around Liverpool.

I expect once Joe is retired he will (like the Cockeral kissing Poyet) still have a bit of Chelsea in his Heart and a huge regret that he couldn't recapture the form that would have kept him here as part of a team that go's on to win many trophies while he looks on from his new Club thinking what might have been, I think anything he hasn't said that You and others feel he should will be avenged for you in his Heart as he struggles to help Pool climb above halfway in the table.

We all see things differently but I for one will always have respect for almost all players that have worn our Shirt, a few things said or unsaid will not change that.

[Barry Bridges]

We sung him songs everytime he touched the pitch or jogged along the sidelines, aside from that we gave him over 60,000 pounds of thank you's every week.  We owe him more?

I understand where you are coming from, but to me "thank you" is the least he could do. Hell when Ive left old jobs Ive said "Thank you for the opportunity" even if I hated them and the job.  Maybe its a cultural difference, maybe its true Canadian are just too polite (though I doubt thats the case with em ), but to me when someone helps you (even if its a mutually benificial arrangement) you just say "thank you" at the end.  

I doubt their is a single fan here (BB aside )  who would not of said "thank you" back to him if he had said it at all.

Heck, even if he had just been quiet, Im sure I wouldnt feel this strongly on the issue.  But when you consider how well the fans treated him here, for him to completely ignore them while saying "Liverpool fans create the best atmposhpere... hair standing on the back of your neck....biggest club in the country...etc etc" its hard not to take that as a snub/ungrateful.

"Thank you", all he had to say and he has our (well my) respect as everything else he says doesnt matter!  Again, in my view, we dont all have to view it the same...apparently a lot of us view it differently!

[Chippy]

Your're not the minority mate, I would imagine I am but for me he entertained me while he was here and he got paid for it, he got applauded and heard his name sung so hopefully gratification was mutual...now he's got a new Job and one where he will get more first team action and hopefully further his International career, I can't blame him for going or trying to appease his new fans, ok I'd love to hear him in an interview saying how he has played for the best team in the Country and misses the best fans in the Country but is ready now for a new challenge but I wouldn't expect anything like it nor would I blame him.

I expect he will remember his days here as the best in his career when its over and don't doubt we as fans will here about it then, for now he needs to get on with getting some form back and play his way into his new fans hearts...hes got the rest of his life to think about and needs to have a settled family in a new and dreadful place.

[Spiller86]

loz, on 20 September 2010 - 05:59 AM, said:

If Roma sack Claudio now after how much they improved under him last season they would be idiots and deserve to go backwards the same way Juve did after they sacked him.

I made the comment to my friend that given all he did last season he deserves at least 'til Christmas. I mean van Gaal was hopeless last year at Bayern until they won that game at Juve to just scrape through to the second round of the CL, then they went on and nearly won everything.

I was having a chat with this mate of mine this morning and his main complaint suprise, suprise were the strange subs he has been making. For example, last week against Calgiari  after Burdisso got sent off he took off Totti and played with noone up front, thereafter they had no ball and lost 5-1. I of course reminded him that last season when he took off Totti and De Rossi against Lazio when a goal down and they won, he thought he was the greatest genius of all time. But of course that is just Ranieri brilliant one minute, Monaco the next.

Once they get a couple of players back namely Vucinic they'll no doubt turn it around, but they've Inter this weekend and that just might be the straw that break's the camel's back. I hope he doesn't get the sack, because he always came across as a decent bloke, but after the apparent falling out with Totti, I'd say the only thing that might save him will be the fact that they haven't the cash to pay him out.

[G4 Squared]

loz, on 19 September 2010 - 10:57 AM, said:

We lost him because he thought he had more chance of first team football at West Ham and wasn't keen on taking his chances against the stronger competition at Chelsea.  So he moved to West Ham, made a few first team appearances, did very little, and has noe been farmed out in much the same manner we farmed him out.  He is only 18 so still very much got his career ahead of him but it does inidicate we were right to reject any offers of first team exposure guarantees.

I'm aware of that dear Lozmeister, my point is more that perhaps we let him go too easy. Di Santo, Sinclair and Stoch who were ahead of him have all been dispatched; Borrini is not the same type of player and from what I've seen not as far developed. I saw Nouble play a few times for WHU and he didn't look that out of place and the idea of loaning him to Brendan, a manger he knows and trusts, seems like a good game plan. Brendan's got Sinclair scoring again wasn't the last one his fourth in three games or was it 3 in 4 games can't remember.

[Virosh]

dkw, on 20 September 2010 - 07:50 AM, said:

How about you just f**k off, comprehensive incapability my f**king arse. No, I wouldnt call him a w**ker, but I do think hes been out of order with the lack of gratitude he`s given back to fans who backed him the entire time he was at Chelsea, even when he was sh*t.

I don't know how my argument can be made clearer. If you are offended by me saying so, so be it. Others don't seem to have that problem, even when they disagree with me, and they don't resort to swearing.

I see you actually agree with me in a way - though we both /all?/ see that Joe Cole hasn't covered himself in glory, he hasn't done /yet/ something to justify the "w****r" moniker.

I also note how it took me two times asking to get an answer to a simple question. Do you always ignore significant parts of a fellow's argument and just answer what you please?

dkw, on 20 September 2010 - 11:20 AM, said:

Just not accepting sh*te like "Your comprehensive incapability aside" from any f**ker, or the fact he seems to think me and Barry had called Cole a w**ker, which neither of us have.

Barry hasn't called Cole a "w****r", though he was pretty fast in coming to the defense of someone who did. His words carried no hint of him denouncing the word and pretty much carried the argument further. And he still hasn't answered my question.

(EDIT: This was at the time of writing.)

I never said you called him that, either.

yorkleyblue, on 20 September 2010 - 08:45 AM, said:

Dicky, you do seem to have a massive talent for bringing the Trolls out of the woodwork

keep it up, corporal!

Yes, yorkley, I am the Troll for pointing out one of the good and most loved players we've had in this decade doesn't deserve to be called childish names. I am also the one who starts throwing abuse.

BlueBeard, on 20 September 2010 - 11:42 AM, said:

Just read through this thread, and must say that I side with Barry Bridges and dkw on this one, though I've nothing against Virosh.

I, for one, was pleased when Joe Cole left Chelsea, in fact I'd wanted him to go for the previous two years. He could be a very good player on his day, only trouble was, he didn't have many 'days'. I still remember us losing at home with about 5 minutes to go (can't remember who against), and Chelsea were desperate for an equaliser. All except Joey, who thought the most important thing to do was try pathetic little flicks which never worked.

Joey was reportedly a Chelsea supporter since he was a kid, and was thrilled to leave the Spammers to come to the Bridge. He got adulation from the Chelsea crowd which he rarely deserved, then he goes to Liverpool and gobs off about their great support. Typical of most current day footballers, I'm afraid, no loyalty, no brains. If Joey gets a good reception when he returns to the Bridge, I'll be very disappointed, he should be given the same treatment that Poyet and Durie got.


Just for the record, Peter Osgood did give the Southampton fans a wave both at the Bridge and at the Dell, and we never held it against him - he never wanted to leave Chelsea, but the Saints fans obviously respected him. That's how it should be.

If Gianfranco had praised the West Ham support I wouldn't have held that against him either. When he left Chelsea, he did it with respect and dignity, making us love him all the more.

I see you point, Steve. I wouldn't go that far in condemnig Joe, I think he gave us his best years and he really enjoyed being at the club.

As for the examples you gave, that's precisely my point - the simple fact that our two biggest legends got along with a different team's support doesn't disqualify them from being legends. Joe took it a step too far, but that's it.

Edited by Virosh, 21 September 2010 - 09:53 AM.

[Virosh]

Barry, I skimmed through your posts - I'll read them in details later, as I'm at work, and I'd like to retract my statement - you're not a keyboard warrior at all. Even though I don't agree with everything you say, your arguments are well-reasoned and lacking in the shrillness that I accused you of. I must have been too angry at the other user and I'm sorry.

Edited by Virosh, 21 September 2010 - 10:19 AM.

[yorkleyblue]

see what I mean?

[Virosh]

I don't actually.

[bonetti]

Joe Cole gave the manker fans the 5 salute at the end of the match on Sunday - just like a real scouser then

[yorkleyblue]

I'm not getting too involved, but when you find that you have to quote several different posts and add your own commentary to an ongoing argument that all of the other participants have already given up on, and said that, in essence, they will agree to disagree, and when all you are doing is reposting the same arguments over and over again in the mistaken belief that repetition makes things either true, relevant or acceptable, that, to me, is a classic definition of forum troll behaviour.  

Any road up, if other people want to engage in that, it's not for me to say that they can't.  I'm not playing anymore though

[dkw]

yorkleyblue, on 21 September 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

I'm not getting too involved, but when you find that you have to quote several different posts and add your own commentary to an ongoing argument that all of the other participants have already given up on, and said that, in essence, they will agree to disagree, and when all you are doing is reposting the same arguments over and over again in the mistaken belief that repetition makes things either true, relevant or acceptable, that, to me, is a classic definition of forum troll behaviour.  

Any road up, if other people want to engage in that, it's not for me to say that they can't.  I'm not playing anymore though

[Virosh]

yorkleyblue, on 21 September 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

I'm not getting too involved, but when you find that you have to quote several different posts and add your own commentary to an ongoing argument that all of the other participants have already given up on, and said that, in essence, they will agree to disagree, and when all you are doing is reposting the same arguments over and over again in the mistaken belief that repetition makes things either true, relevant or acceptable, that, to me, is a classic definition of forum troll behaviour.  

Any road up, if other people want to engage in that, it's not for me to say that they can't.  I'm not playing anymore though

How exactly is an "ongoing argument" one that "the other participants have given up on"? Even more so when several posts on the same topic had been added while I was writing my own?

I also take it I am supposed to leave an argument as soon as someone disagrees with me, or in this case, swears at me? Am I also supposed to come up with a completely different view with every post?

You're spot on by not playing anymore. You're making up new rules all the time.