720 replies to this topic

[Jimmy_blue]

Essien really isn't fit to lace his own boots at the moment (diminished player/out of form/ unfit - take your pick). Mikel can be too casual, and Lamps is still feeling his way back to full fitness (although it seems like every single Chelsea player looks off the pace to me).

Joshy would have less pressure on him to perform and actually he is better than any of our other midfield players at getting the ball in tight spaces and playing. Lamps and Essien are getting mugged for possession a lot. I could tolerate this if we pressed high up the pitch but they are getting pick pocketed deep in our own half as teams are targeting them specifically.

Our midfield has been awful for last three months - really, really awful.

Edited by Jimmy_blue, 19 February 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[Zeta Orionis]

Carlo seems to have benched him permanently recently. He used to get 10-15 mins at the end of games sometimes, but It's been ages since he's even come off the bench. very disappointing when he's such a creative player and when that's exactly what we're crying out for he is made to just sit there.

[dkw]

BlueSkies, on 19 February 2011 - 05:03 PM, said:

Carlo seems to have benched him permanently recently. He used to get 10-15 mins at the end of games sometimes, but It's been ages since he's even come off the bench. very disappointing when he's such a creative player and when that's exactly what we're crying out for he is made to just sit there.

I wonder if he is trying to protect him at the moment, keeping him away from a massively under performing team as it may be detrimental to his progress as a player.

[Nibs]

No, he's not ready. Give it another 3 or 4 years............................................

[Jimmy_blue]

dkw, on 19 February 2011 - 05:07 PM, said:

I wonder if he is trying to protect him at the moment, keeping him away from a massively under performing team as it may be detrimental to his progress as a player.

I'd disagree with that sentiment if that's Carlo's thinking. It's the perfect time to play him - we're struggling - the pressure is off Josh.

If he felt that way he should have sent him out on loan.

Joshy's only 17-years-old nobody would expect miracles from him and some decent man-management to just go out there and be nice and relaxed and do his best and let his natural ability take over.

Could Josh be less effective than Essien? I doubt it.

Edited by Jimmy_blue, 19 February 2011 - 05:12 PM.

[Jimmy_blue]

Nibs, on 19 February 2011 - 05:09 PM, said:

No, he's not ready. Give it another 3 or 4 years............................................

Technically Josh is one of our better footballers - 17-years-old or not.

[Chippy]

Jimmy_blue, on 19 February 2011 - 05:13 PM, said:

Technically Josh is one of our better footballers - 17-years-old or not.

Thats it you tell him, He'll never admit it though

[dkw]

Jimmy_blue, on 19 February 2011 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'd disagree with that sentiment if that's Carlo's thinking. It's the perfect time to play him - we're struggling - the pressure is off Josh.

If he felt that way he should have sent him out on loan.

Joshy's only 17-years-old nobody would expect miracles from him and some decent man-management to just go out there and be nice and relaxed and do his best and let his natural ability take over.

Could Josh be less effective than Essien? I doubt it.

I can actually see some reasoning behind it, Ive said before Josh is our future and I would hate to see him threw in at the wrong time. I dont think he would have no pressure, just reading on here shows how high the expectations are of him, though I do think Carlo is being overly protective.

[Scooby Blue]

A few months ago I would say no. It was important the senior players were given a chance to regain there form and putting in a 17 year old no matter how promising he is could have been detrimental to his development. Having said that 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'. I'm arguing with myself now ffs. Having seen the senior players fail to rise to the standard they should be at, I'd now say yes. Carlo obviously sees it as a gamble to include him, but continuing with the current line up and shape is seeing Carlo gamble with his future anyway. Even if he makes changes like bringing in Josh and fails miserably, atleast he'll be seen to be trying to sort things out.

[Eggy McMuffin]

Jimmy_blue, on 19 February 2011 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'd disagree with that sentiment if that's Carlo's thinking. It's the perfect time to play him - we're struggling - the pressure is off Josh.

If he felt that way he should have sent him out on loan.

Joshy's only 17-years-old nobody would expect miracles from him and some decent man-management to just go out there and be nice and relaxed and do his best and let his natural ability take over.

Could Josh be less effective than Essien? I doubt it.

I would disagree with most of that.

The pressure would most definitely be on him. Josh would be expected to come into a struggling side and turn things around. My impression of the reason Josh hasn't been played recently is that they don't want to risk his future (and Chelsea's future itself is intrinsically linked to it), for the sake of this season.

A few of you will probably say that he's mature enough, but I don't think you can be sure about that. Just because someone carries themselves very well, doesn't give a proper indication of how they'd react to the kind of pressure he'd be under - the pressure to be the saviour of our season. You just can't know, and it's something which I would say isn't worth taking a risk on, not yet anyway. Next season he will obviously be playing more games, and most likely be starting a fair few more, but there are a number of things to consider here.

• Playing too much, too early can shorten a player's career.
  
• Pressure and expectation can make it difficult to perform, both in the short term and it can affect your handling of those pressures in the long term.
  
• We're playing like sh*t, and he's the kind of player who would be able to help us sort that out.
  
• He needs games to progress.

Now that to me seems fairly 50:50. The way I see Carlo and the staff handling it is that they won't play him while the team is under-performing because it will just add an unnecessary amount of pressure, but I am certain they will play him when the opportunity is there, and we're playing better football, taking the pressure off him, and meaning that if Josh doesn't perform to the fullest, it won't affect the result, or mean he gets slaughtered. If he started a game while we're playing like we are now, and he just didn't play well, and had to be taken off at half time, how would that affect his confidence? If we lose that game which stops us from getting Champions League football, because he doesn't track a runner? You can't know how that will affect him, and neither can I. It could make him more determined to put things right next time he played, or it could make him scared to lose the ball next time. I just don't think it's worth risking his future right now.

Playing one or two more games this season will be disappointing for us fans who love to see him play, and don't get me wrong, I do love the way he strokes the ball around the pitch, but I feel that it wouldn't hamper his progress anywhere near enough for it to be worth the risk of playing him in a side performing as badly as we are right now. I think it's risk vs reward, and the risk right now, is too high for the reward.

[Englishman]

dkw, on 19 February 2011 - 05:07 PM, said:

I wonder if he is trying to protect him at the moment, keeping him away from a massively under performing team as it may be detrimental to his progress as a player.

Or perhaps he just thinks it's not a good idea to pin all our hopes on a 17 year old with 3 starts to his name? God help Josh if we threw him into this team and he had a few bad games...

[german-blue]

If I were Josh I wouldnt feel pressure at all... any good thing that you do is a bonus if you play in a team that is bad as ours at the moment. Especially if you are a 17 years old...Its not like anyone would expect him to perform.

Edited by german-blue, 19 February 2011 - 06:20 PM.

[Star]

I think Carlo made a huge error in not playing Josh in some part of the game today. To send so many young players
out on loan yet keep him in our squad, is looking to me like a blatant way of enhancing our FA Youth Cup
chances as well as getting splinters on our bench.

It's getting more and more like we will have to win the Champions League to re-qualify next year as every game
goes by.

The last thing we needed today with Tuesday in mind is extra time, more so to go to penalties and lose again.

I'm still sticking by Carlo, but tactically he is beginning to worry me, as I have said on many occasions the only
answer with our current squad is to play 4-4-2.

I watched Ray Wilkins talk after the Fulham game, he said teams are pushing our full backs back and squeezing up
the midfield space, forcing us to break teams down through the middle where lack of space has dried us up in
terms of creating and taking chances.

Today Baines and particularly Coleman pushed Ferreira and Cole back which forced us as Ray said down the middle.

In short teams with a strict game plan will outwit a 4-3-3 'without two true wide men'

We have been sussed, to be honest if our current coaching staff cannot see that and our former one can,
there is something badly wrong.

Carlo is a top manager, he has now got to stand up and be counted and make a strong tactical change otherwise
he and our season will go up in smoke.

I would have played Malouda on the left of a 4-4-2 today with Josh and Lampard in the middle and Ramires on the right
and played Kalou and Anelka up front.

The reason being, with Tuesday and possible extra time in mind, the changes could have been easy to make with
everything in mind, after all Ramires's lungs go on forever.

Kalou shouldn't play on Tuesday, so should have played throughout in the knowledge that despite our terrible
recent penalty shootout history - he has never missed one.

Essien could have replaced Josh or Lampard depending on the state of the game, With Drogba left fresh for a mid
second half spurt before joining forces with Torres on Tuesday. Leaving Zhircov the straighr swop for Malouda.

Now we go into Tuesday's game with Lampard and Drogba playing 90 solid and 30 extra and mentally suffering
yet another penalty shootout loss. Let's face it our problem is not scoring goals and it has been for nearly 4 months.

Young Josh has the keys to unlock a defence, quite why he hasn't had much game time can only be
explained away by the manager.

Edited by Star, 19 February 2011 - 06:08 PM.

[Star]

german-blue, on 19 February 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

If I were Josh I wouldnt feel pressure at all... any good thing that you do is a bonus if you play in a team that is bad as ours at the moment. Especially if you are a 17 years...Its not like anyone would expect him to perform.

You are bang on the money, watching him play in the Youth Cup you can see the expectation on his shoulders,
in games for the first team he looks relaxed and rarely miss places a pass.

[Jimmy_blue]

german-blue, on 19 February 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

If I were Josh I wouldnt feel pressure at all... any good thing that you do is a bonus if you play in a team that is bad as ours at the moment. Especially if you are a 17 years...Its not like anyone would expect him to perform.

This is how I feel.

Also, some of you guys are talking like a few bad game would curtail Josh McEachran's Chelsea career.

Hardly.

And everyone does have realistic expectations of a 17-year-old. As a man-management tool a bit of professional humiliation for players like Mikel and Essien might bring the best out of them. That's the harsh reality of it.

Edited by Jimmy_blue, 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM.

[alan'82]

At first like many,i was disapointed josh didn't start,but with Evertons/Moyes brutal tatics, in the end i was glad really.They really are the only club in the PL that in stead of shin guards, you need cricket pads, both front and rear when you play them,w**kers.

[Star]

Englishman, on 19 February 2011 - 05:32 PM, said:

Or perhaps he just thinks it's not a good idea to pin all our hopes on a 17 year old with 3 starts to his name? God help Josh if we threw him into this team and he had a few bad games...

Good job Tommy Docherty never took that view when he threw Ossie in against Burnley and said "You've got nine games son, I don't care how you play."

[Jimmy_blue]

alan, on 19 February 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

At first like many,i was disapointed josh didn't start,but with Evertons/Moyes brutal tatics, in the end i was glad really.They really are the only club in the PL that in stead of shin guards, you need cricket pads, both front and rear when you play them,w**kers.

Might be a decent shout they basically kicked Mikel off the park, lol.

But...........at one point we had 36% possession against Everton at home. That's criminal.

[alan'82]

Now we have played 90 mins plus extra time,mostly trying to avoid studs down the back of our legs,i don't see why josh shouldn't start against Copenhagen.Some fresh legs in midfield might just do the trick in what, i suspect, will be a tough match.

[Jimmy_blue]

alan, on 19 February 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

Now we have played 90 mins plus extra time,mostly trying to avoid studs down the back of our legs,i don't see why josh shouldn't start against Copenhagen.Some fresh legs in midfield might just do the trick in what, i suspect, will be a tough match.

There are no easy games for us anymore. Not how we're playing.

Depressing.