2484 replies to this topic

[Myles_91]

After the Arsenal game I was slaughtered for saying the Spuds could finish above us but a win tomorrow puts them 3 points ahead of us with a home game in hand with us having to play City and them away before the turn of the year.

I wouldn't rule out City putting 6 or 7 goals past us when they come to the Bridge, that is the one game I really am not looking forward to, the gulf between the two sides is enormous, but I am not too bothered because Spuds and United have also had their trousers pulled down by them as well. I've been saying for a while now I bet City go unbeaten this season.

Not just for sentimental reasons but possibly for league position etc I would highlight the Spurs game as the biggest of the season, a cup final if you must.

Wolves (H) - Should win, Wolves probably the only team poorer than us defensively.

Newcastle (A) Tough one but we can edge it, Newcastle will be a different team having lost two in a row, we can take advantage of this.

City (H) Loss, let's not try and even pretend this will even be a contest, I'd almost see a 3-0 loss as some kind of moral victory.

Wigan (A) A very winnable game for us.

Anything less than 9 points and we're screwed IMO, I am not looking forward to going to Goodison/Villa Park (bogey grounds), Eastlands, Emirates and Anfield in 2012, then of course we have all the relegation strugglers away (which is never easy at that time of year) and Spuds and Man U to come to SB, both of whom could tear us a new one.

[Snedger]

The title was gone before we'd kicked a ball. We've had our 15 minutes, now it's City's turn. Admittedly our ascent has taken a recently quicker dive than could have been expected but you can't blame the manager and you can't blame the players. You can only blame the owner for notably scaled back investment in the last few seasons and the failure of the million to one shot of producing a home grown super team. But how can you possibly take umbrage with a guy whom had made the investment to provide success that would never have occurred without him? It is hard to accept but we are heading back to where we came from. And I for one have often lamented our 80's era existence. Be careful what you wish for?

[dantheman23]

Were simply picking the wrong team in my opinion there is still an excellent squad there and just a few changes will help us drastically. I said before the team had been announced today if Luiz is centre back and Mikel Ramires and Lamps start midfield well be beaten.  Smiled when I saw the team nearly put money on a chelsea opposition for the first time in my life I was so sure.
Luiz.....absolute headcase shouldnt be allowed anywhere near these important games. He wants to play midfield and leaves our defence wide open when he loses the ball in one of his dribbles up field. Total liability in my opinion and I'm not one bit convinced so far. Alex in the middle and Iva right full defence sorted.
Mikel.....offers absolutely nothing slows the game down when he has the ball all he does is receive it off one of the centre backs give it to the full backs and run away. Theres no need for him in the side whatsoever. Let meirels play that role or romeu much quicker passing better tempo and overall better players.
Ramires and lampard I suppose have to start they offer too much in terms of goals and workrate. Giving josh the odd game here and there and rotating would also be very beneficial.
Our best front 3 is Mata Sturridge and Torres. Iv no idea whats wrong with Drogba but his first touch is so bad its unbelievable. Sell anelka kalou and malouda in january theyv become deadwood.We dont need them.
I wish AVB would stop being so uptight also and lets start giving these new young players a chance, Wilshere got his england international,welbeck got his same thing,cleverly,phil jones you get the idea. Theres lots to be optimistic about if our young stars are given the chance to show what they can do. Lets just hope AVB lets it happen

[Mike 93]

Snedger, on 21 November 2011 - 12:56 AM, said:

The title was gone before we'd kicked a ball. We've had our 15 minutes, now it's City's turn. Admittedly our ascent has taken a recently quicker dive than could have been expected but you can't blame the manager and you can't blame the players. You can only blame the owner for notably scaled back investment in the last few seasons and the failure of the million to one shot of producing a home grown super team. But how can you possibly take umbrage with a guy whom had made the investment to provide success that would never have occurred without him? It is hard to accept but we are heading back to where we came from. And I for one have often lamented our 80's era existence. Be careful what you wish for?

Easy mate, its not that bad, let us go through our transition and see what happens then but bold statements like that aren't necessary yet.

Edited by Mike 93, 21 November 2011 - 01:17 AM.

[Englishman]

What was the difference between last season's home loss to Liverpool and this one? Different managers but ten players played in both matches. And in both games we were lacklustre, bereft of ideas and got beaten by a mediocre (and on paper inferior) team. While he's obviously made important mistakes, to me the manager is not the major problem. We're carrying too many players who are past their prime or simply not good enough.

Rather than firing AVB for failing to perform miracles with the same players who came up short last year give him a chance to build his own team and back him to clear out the old guard, a process which should have started a few years ago. We could bring in Fergie, Jose or Hiddink but unless the fundamental problem - that the current squad is not good enough to meet ours/Roman's expectations - is addressed then things aren't going to change.

[PloKoon13]

I think the problem is that some of the players aren't really up to playing this system, and it is a system which can't really have any passengers; if we press, we have to press as a unit, and if our possession is to be truly fluid in the face of even the fiercest pressers then all our players must be comfortable on the ball.

Liverpool's opener consisted of poor isolated Mikel (not surprised that he's been scapegoated again) getting closed down by three men and losing the ball.
Point at hand: Suarez attempted more tackles today than Terry and Luiz put together. The only one of our front three who was pressing properly was Malouda. Mata, for all his excellent qualities, must be able to participate in the team's defensive effort if he is to be the star of the attacking show. The same goes for Drogba as well; he's at his best when he's putting himself about all over the shop, especially with his physique and reputation, so he should be dazzling under a manager with such proactive ideals. If he wants to dispell the rumours that he's past it he needs to step it up.

Similarly I think we saw the darker side of Ivanovic at right back this afternoon. While he is more than good enough against Blackburn, his technique and delivery were left wanting against Liverpool as he only managed to connect one cross all game. For a centre back however he is reasonable on the ball, and any failing in that department is made up for by his elite aerial ability, pace and work rate.

Ivanovic is certainly good enough to start at centre back, and Luiz should be one of the first names on the team sheet as he is practically tailor-made for our new system, which brings us to the awkward subject of Terry. He is clearly too slow and uncomfortable on the ball for high line and quick circulation of the ball, and to continue shoehorning our beloved captain into the side will only lead to more media-friendly embarrassing moments where he ends up on his arse in the wake of a faster, probably younger forward. JT's passion and work rate will never be questioned (he still managed more touches than anyone else on the field today) and he is far too much of a legend to drop him suddenly and entirely, but if we are serious about truly unleashing Villas-Boas then JT is sadly one of many players that we need to start phasing out.

It's ridiculous that there is serious discussion about sacking AVB after the price we paid to get him, as well as the fact that the season is barely three months old and he hasn't yet been in the job for six months. If we put too much pressure for immediate success on AVB then he is going to try and achieve too much too soon and fail miserably. We are at the very beginning of bringing in a new squad and a new system so to judge the man and his dynasty this early and this negatively is ridiculous considering he has barely started out and still has 50% of an ageing, ill-fitting, temperamental squad to move on, replace and perfect.

[moi]

I've forgotten what it is we're supposed to do to nominate posts for consideration as "pages" but whatever it is I nominate PloKoon13's post above.

[evissy]

Not this. Come on. Don't go Abramovich on us now.

It is very hard to play AVB's system and it takes time players to learn it. If you don't fully trust the system it looks like this. It is not defending mistakes solely, it is attacks fault as much. The system needs everyone to participate in attack and in defence. The style is also so demanding for a single player inside a game that AVB needs to rotate heavily. I'm glad he has a plan and he sticks to it no matter what. His biggest problem is to convince the players to stick to it too. This can be the thing that stands between a good season and Chelsea. It is up to him to convince everyone, the rest comes naturally. Hope he succeeds.

Title is very far but it is only 1/3 of the season and we haven't seen a single mistake by City. They will come at some point.

[moeski]

Abba future is safe!! Any other manager would of done the same as he is doing. Players are too slow... I think he will spend in january!! Btw drogues performance against liverpool impressed me!

[Seven Times]

First of all ladies and gents I'd like to say sorry for last night, I'd been out with my Liverpool supporting mate,
and my Liverpool supporting uncle, so not only did I have a load of booze (which is quite rare for me), but I had loads
of abuse as well.

So, I'm sorry for acting a knob, it's a bit out of character for me, and I almost expected a banning when
I logged in this morning.


As for AVB, of course he's got to be given time, I think at the moment we all far too high expectations, including the media.


We've just got to rebuild, give youth a chance, and start again.


And I know I keep saying it, but a one off season in the Europa League would be a great laugh, and would bring
some top new aways, might even do some of our current players a bit of good.

Of course there is the financial side of not being in the Champions League, but I'm sure the new stadium sponsorship will
help a bit.

We've gotta go for it in the Carling Cup now, hammer the scousers and get to the final.

[Spiller86]

PloKoon13, on 21 November 2011 - 02:54 AM, said:

I think the problem is that some of the players aren't really up to playing this system, and it is a system which can't really have any passengers; if we press, we have to press as a unit, and if our possession is to be truly fluid in the face of even the fiercest pressers then all our players must be comfortable on the ball.

Liverpool's opener consisted of poor isolated Mikel (not surprised that he's been scapegoated again) getting closed down by three men and losing the ball.
Point at hand: Suarez attempted more tackles today than Terry and Luiz put together. The only one of our front three who was pressing properly was Malouda. Mata, for all his excellent qualities, must be able to participate in the team's defensive effort if he is to be the star of the attacking show. The same goes for Drogba as well; he's at his best when he's putting himself about all over the shop, especially with his physique and reputation, so he should be dazzling under a manager with such proactive ideals. If he wants to dispell the rumours that he's past it he needs to step it up.

Similarly I think we saw the darker side of Ivanovic at right back this afternoon. While he is more than good enough against Blackburn, his technique and delivery were left wanting against Liverpool as he only managed to connect one cross all game. For a centre back however he is reasonable on the ball, and any failing in that department is made up for by his elite aerial ability, pace and work rate.

Ivanovic is certainly good enough to start at centre back, and Luiz should be one of the first names on the team sheet as he is practically tailor-made for our new system, which brings us to the awkward subject of Terry. He is clearly too slow and uncomfortable on the ball for high line and quick circulation of the ball, and to continue shoehorning our beloved captain into the side will only lead to more media-friendly embarrassing moments where he ends up on his arse in the wake of a faster, probably younger forward. JT's passion and work rate will never be questioned (he still managed more touches than anyone else on the field today) and he is far too much of a legend to drop him suddenly and entirely, but if we are serious about truly unleashing Villas-Boas then JT is sadly one of many players that we need to start phasing out.

It's ridiculous that there is serious discussion about sacking AVB after the price we paid to get him, as well as the fact that the season is barely three months old and he hasn't yet been in the job for six months. If we put too much pressure for immediate success on AVB then he is going to try and achieve too much too soon and fail miserably. We are at the very beginning of bringing in a new squad and a new system so to judge the man and his dynasty this early and this negatively is ridiculous considering he has barely started out and still has 50% of an ageing, ill-fitting, temperamental squad to move on, replace and perfect.

It's a reasonable discussion to have I think Plokoon. There were howls for Carlo's head after a similar number of defeats last season, and no excuses were being accepted then.

The goal was also not Mikel's fault. But he was horrible in general, he just doesn't present for the ball well enough

That said I agree with you assessment of the broader problem. The question becomes whether it is better to build a system to suit the team or to build a team that fits the system. It's an expensive concept to build a team to suit AVB's ideas particularly when there is no guarantees of success and we don't have a great deal of cash to play with.

But if we are to assume that needs to happen, we need to be aware of adding players with mentality. Aside from Lampard and Terry I feel we're listless. Too many players drop their heads, noone demands the ball and says I'm getting us back into this. It's no good adding players who can fit the system without the mental toughness.

[G4 Squared]

I can live with no trophies but I do demand that AVB sticks to his guns and plays the way he wants to. He also needs to sort out the squad. There is a great deal of deadwood and players who in general are not good enough. We need to buy a right-back and a pacing winger-type in the window and maybe a centre half.  Josh has to be given more playing time in Blue and not at Swansea. Lukaku should be pushed up the pecking order at the expense of Drogba. Ashley needs to be rested especially as Ryan Bertrand can do a good job.

[Zeta Orionis]

It's not a transistional season, let's not kid ourselves. If it was we'd be seeing the beginning of young talent starting to play, like Josh, Ryan, Romeu, Lukaku, etc... But we're not. It's the same old crap most weeks. I don't know why. Maybe AVB is scared to play the youth like Carlo was in case they lose and get him the sack. But the fans and the owner would be much more forgiving if we lost playing youth than if we lost playing the usual suspects. I don't know why people think otherwise.

[54veteran]

Let's not forget what's been going on in the HIgh Court since 2007. The stakes are at three BILLION quid in that little poker game, so how important can a football club be?
Already AVB is talking about how much money it'll cost to fire him. Here we go again

[Zola]

Very true

[u no it makes sense]

I dont understand how he can go from the way Porto played (only conceding 18 goals all season) to the way we defend now. He is a clever guy he must know that currently out defenders mainly JT just cant cope with the high line. Im guessing that Roman wants a more exciting game but with this "more exciting football" we arent going to win the league and does that mean that AVB will be given the boot?
It must be a really tough job at Chelsea, you can win all you like (like Jose did) but then be labled boring and asked to play a different style or you can play exciting football, scoring and conceding goals and maybe not win things. I envy the money that our managers have been/are being paid but it surely has to be one of the toughest jobs in football.

[Epic]

AVB's futute depends on how many good players he can bring, or is allowed to bring, to the club during his time as manager.

You are only as good as your players and unluckily for him and us we don't have many good players. It is a squad full of average and over-the-hill players.

[Castiel]

On Mikel - he's OK.  That is not good enough for us.  Look at other top teams enforcers.  De Jong (Toure), Xabi Alonso, Busquets, Mascherano, Cambiasso, Schweinsteiger...  Mikel isn't fit to lace any of their boots.  So why is he consistently making our side?  He's an exploitable weakness, noticeably slows down our ball circulation, fails to cover CB's in recovery and has no discernible ability to create options for the back line whatsoever.  He occasionally has a good game.  His bad games should be the exception, not the rule - and he's had years to find some consistency.

The same applies to Malouda and Kalou.  Exclude Ronaldo and Messi and you have to Ribery, Di Maria, Pedro, Villa, Aguero, Robben, Balotelli, Young, Nani, Nasri, Silva, Suarez etc ad infinitum.  Only Mata can stand shoulder to shoulder with the names listed leading the front lines of other top European sides (and Liverpool).  

Our midfield personnel is actually fine if you ask me.  Modric or a player like him would be nice, but we have Josh.  I don't think we're using the right midfield for the sake of accommodating Lampard.  I'm not in panic mode, but it is starting to annoy me that we have the personnel more suited to AVB's system - and they're not being used.

[u no it makes sense]

I agree about Mikel, he has had all this time to really become a strong player and he just hasnt managed it, The spanish boy should be starting ahead of him every game.

[54veteran]

u no it makes sense, on 21 November 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

Im guessing that Roman wants a more exciting game but with this "more exciting football" we arent going to win the league

I've always maintained that Barca couldn't cope with the rough and tumble of the PL. Equally I couldn't see a PL side matching them at the end of our season in conditions that usually favour ball players. However, City's demolition of United at Old Trafford changes everything. Maybe it is possible to win both competitions. A slightly depressing thought if money is all it's about.