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Or rather has become laughably overrated.
Dont get me wrong he could pass a football but all this "best midfielder" sh*te that was bandied around in the wake of his retirement is nonsensical.
He was slow, could not beat anyone via dribbling or pace, could not tackle to save his life, perennially booked, was sh*te at tracking back. He scored goals here and there but his goals/game ratio was nothing to write home about (1 in 4-5 games). Only once did he score more than 15+ goals in a season. Did not, to my recollection excel at set pieces (taking free kicks, corners or penalties). England wise I never remember him having a tournament that would compare to Franks in 2004. In fact he took retirement after those Euros. He did, of course score a hattrick in Keegans first game but for the most he did nothing in an England shirt.
For such a limited midfielder the praise that is heaped on him is a joke. He was never in the class of Nedved, Seedorf, even Viera who could all take the game by the scruff of the neck and were great defensively AND in attack whereas Scholes was a one trick pony.
Sorry if anyone disagrees but Im Chelsea through and through and have had enough of nauseating Scholes hype. He was good but nowhere as good as some try to make out.
Thoughts?
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Scholes is laughably overrated
Started by
BumsteadCFC
, Dec 14 2011 07:22 AM
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#3
Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:37 AM
I agree. I've see him compared to Xavi recently, which is nauseating. He was a great footballer in his day but the red mancs are really getting out of control. Like Lampard for us, he'll always be appreciated by them more than outsiders.
#4
Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:41 AM
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Special Beat
On his day he was good, I'll have to give him that, but I agree that I don't quite see how he's held in such high regard as he is. I've never seen anyone who is either such a poor or reckless tackler, consistently get away with so much.
#5
Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:55 AM
Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen. His passing at times is as good as any of the other greats, and he as that extra something for Utd which took them from a very good team to a great team. I agree he has been overrated at times, especially when talking about his england career (Lampard ruined that apparently, he was the bestest England player ever before that nasty cockney made him play out of position etc....). But you cant knock how good he was for around 4 or 5 seasons on the bang for the Mancs.
#7
Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:09 AM
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dkw, on 14 December 2011 - 08:55 AM, said:
Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen.
Fair enough. I'd say he's one of the best ENGLISH midfielders I've ever seen and he deserves to be remembered as one of football's great talents, but I've seen people say he's in the same class as Zidane, Xavi, etc. That's when I have to disagree. He had a great engine and knew how to kick a ball, but he's more a warrior than an artist in my view. Don't get me wrong, the game needs warriors, but the artists are the ones who make the game memorable for me(and I don't mean artists as in divas or primadonnas). And there have been players who mix the warrior and the artist, like Pavel Nedved. Now there is a midfielder who should be considered up there with the greatest midfielders of all time, but it seems he's been forgotten.
Edited by Maksimov, 14 December 2011 - 09:14 AM.
#8
Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:09 AM
dkw, on 14 December 2011 - 08:55 AM, said:
Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen. His passing at times is as good as any of the other greats, and he as that extra something for Utd which took them from a very good team to a great team. I agree he has been overrated at times, especially when talking about his england career (Lampard ruined that apparently, he was the bestest England player ever before that nasty cockney made him play out of position etc....). But you cant knock how good he was for around 4 or 5 seasons on the bang for the Mancs.
Bumstead, the complaints you level at Scholes could also be attributed to Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Modric, Pirlo etc... Scholes isn't as good as Xavi is, possibly not as good as Pirlo was at his peak, but he was excellent and one of the best around at the time.
#9
Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:25 AM
Sorry to piss on anyones parade whose putting him down as a great English midfielder, he's not even close!
Robson, Hoddle, Charlton, Stiles, GAZZA those guys were great midfielders, he was an average player and as soon as his England place was threatened by a better player he retired!
Nothing but a myth!
Robson, Hoddle, Charlton, Stiles, GAZZA those guys were great midfielders, he was an average player and as soon as his England place was threatened by a better player he retired!
Nothing but a myth!
#10
Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:40 AM
I think you'll see exactly the same thread about Lampard over at RedCafe when he gives it away.
#11
Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:24 AM
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Spiller - except Lampard has never been referred to as the greatest midfielder of his generation by anyone, in fact he is chronically underrated by loads of know nothing prats, England boo boys, called "Fat Frank".
Compare:
Best Ballon d or finish: Lamps - 2nd, Scholes - n/a
Club player of year: Lamps - 3, Scholes - 0.
Fwa footballer of year: Lamps - 1, Scholes 0.
Top scorer at club: Lamps - 3, Scholes 0.
Seasons with 15+ goals: Lamps - 7, Scholes 1.
Lamps holds the Prem record for most goals for a midfielder and most consecutive appearances for an outfield player.
Scholes was a great passer, other than that his game was limited. Lamps is a far better all round player.
Compare:
Best Ballon d or finish: Lamps - 2nd, Scholes - n/a
Club player of year: Lamps - 3, Scholes - 0.
Fwa footballer of year: Lamps - 1, Scholes 0.
Top scorer at club: Lamps - 3, Scholes 0.
Seasons with 15+ goals: Lamps - 7, Scholes 1.
Lamps holds the Prem record for most goals for a midfielder and most consecutive appearances for an outfield player.
Scholes was a great passer, other than that his game was limited. Lamps is a far better all round player.
#12
Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:31 AM
Of course he is. No doubting that. According to Opta he is the best player in Premier League history. Above Henry, above Ronaldo, Above Cantona, Giggs, Shearer and whoever else you want to add.
But that won't stop people saying he was overrated.
But that won't stop people saying he was overrated.
#13
Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:15 PM
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Have you ever seen Chelsea win the CL? That'll be a yes.
Scholes is one of the most overrated footballers I have ever seen. Good shout Bumstead.
A good player no doubt, but he excelled in a midfield which also included Beckham, Giggs and Keane, at a time when all sides were playing 442. He had his minder in Keane and he was allowed to roam forward, at which he was very good. In Lampard's class? Never.
Once in a while Scholes would get on the end of a cross and score, or he would blast one in from 30 yards and people would say, "Typical Scholes", when in fact, it was anything but typical, it was typical Lampard.
It's worth remembering, Scholes underperformed for England, went a long time without scoring, and came in for loads of criticism, everyone wanting him out. Sven introduced Lamps and put Scholes out on the left. Scholes promptly retired, for the simple reason he had been replaced.
During the public clamour for Scholes re-introduction people forgot this and started rewriting history.
It's also worth remembering, Scholes played for the dominant side of his era. Not sure how well he'd have done somewhere else.
I never understood the hype surrounding Scholes and I still don't.
A good player no doubt, but he excelled in a midfield which also included Beckham, Giggs and Keane, at a time when all sides were playing 442. He had his minder in Keane and he was allowed to roam forward, at which he was very good. In Lampard's class? Never.
Once in a while Scholes would get on the end of a cross and score, or he would blast one in from 30 yards and people would say, "Typical Scholes", when in fact, it was anything but typical, it was typical Lampard.
It's worth remembering, Scholes underperformed for England, went a long time without scoring, and came in for loads of criticism, everyone wanting him out. Sven introduced Lamps and put Scholes out on the left. Scholes promptly retired, for the simple reason he had been replaced.
During the public clamour for Scholes re-introduction people forgot this and started rewriting history.
It's also worth remembering, Scholes played for the dominant side of his era. Not sure how well he'd have done somewhere else.
I never understood the hype surrounding Scholes and I still don't.
#14
Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:55 PM
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He's a grafter, and is most likely happy to be known as such.
I like Paul Scholes, always keeps his head down off the pitch, and just comes across as a
normal family man.
Great player.
I like Paul Scholes, always keeps his head down off the pitch, and just comes across as a
normal family man.
Great player.
#15
Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:40 PM
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CAMPIONE D'EUROPA
There is a huge difference between being overrated by some fans and lacking talent.
Scholes was excellent, read the game and was a world class passer. His ability to track back and/or score goals is as irrelevant as his hair color. He was very good at what he did do.
Castiel said it best. He will never be appreciated by all as much as he is by his own fans. Just like Frank, although I think opinions on that front have changed dramatically in the past few seasons.
And like Six Times said, he seemed like a likeable guy, far more than Giggs is now. The first thing he did after penalties in Moscow was go have a quiet word of encouragment with a crestfallen JT, and then go celebrate with his teammates.
Scholes was excellent, read the game and was a world class passer. His ability to track back and/or score goals is as irrelevant as his hair color. He was very good at what he did do.
Castiel said it best. He will never be appreciated by all as much as he is by his own fans. Just like Frank, although I think opinions on that front have changed dramatically in the past few seasons.
And like Six Times said, he seemed like a likeable guy, far more than Giggs is now. The first thing he did after penalties in Moscow was go have a quiet word of encouragment with a crestfallen JT, and then go celebrate with his teammates.
#16
Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:19 AM
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"He's a really nice bloke" thats another strand of the Scholes mystique.
Look, Im not saying he isnt but that hardly puts him in an exclusive category. Plenty of very talented footballers have been decent chaps: Bergkamp, Zola, Beardsley, Messi, Del Piero, John Barnes, Kaka, Nevin all kept their heads down but we arent constantly reminded about what great blokes they are.
The same media that claim Scholes as a saint, demonize JT and Ashley as the antichrist. I dont place much stock in media created reputations.
Look, Im not saying he isnt but that hardly puts him in an exclusive category. Plenty of very talented footballers have been decent chaps: Bergkamp, Zola, Beardsley, Messi, Del Piero, John Barnes, Kaka, Nevin all kept their heads down but we arent constantly reminded about what great blokes they are.
The same media that claim Scholes as a saint, demonize JT and Ashley as the antichrist. I dont place much stock in media created reputations.
#17
Posted 16 December 2011 - 03:43 AM
BumsteadCFC, on 15 December 2011 - 01:19 AM, said:
The same media that claim Scholes as a saint, demonize JT and Ashley as the antichrist. I dont place much stock in media created reputations.
Sums is it up quite nicely when it comes to the media side of the story. They were putting Giggs on a high morality pedestal too until the his skeletons came out of the closet.
#18
Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:53 PM
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On the Bench
Personally couldn't stand him, but honestly that was because i was scared he was going run the midfield against us. If players such as Zidane and Vierra have described him as their toughest opponents, he couldn't have been that bad surely lads (blue tinted glasses off for a second or too).
#19
Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:41 AM
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Thought he was one of the best players I have seen. It is the combination of his reading of the game and his world class passing ability that made him so great. If it was just one or the other he would not be rated as much.
In the modern game probably not as effective since now need more rounded players especially with all the high intensity pressing that Barca seemed to have gotten everybody to do. But in his day with the DM-AM clear split, thought he was one of the best AM around.
In the modern game probably not as effective since now need more rounded players especially with all the high intensity pressing that Barca seemed to have gotten everybody to do. But in his day with the DM-AM clear split, thought he was one of the best AM around.
#20
Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:43 AM
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Look at this quotes from Xavi:
"In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything. He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more."
And this one from Edgar Davids:
"Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes".
Now I rate Scholes but it seems weird to have too such esteemed players bum licking him so much. Xavi plays with a far superior player in Iniesta and is better himself. Davids played with better midfielders too. Between about 1995 and 2003, Scholes was top notch. Can't argue with that. But he only retired at the end of last season and he didn't do a great deal between 05 and 11. 15 premier league goals from the 05/06 season to the 10/11 season is a pretty paltry return. Lamps has scored 81 Premier League goals in those same seasons.
"In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything. He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more."
And this one from Edgar Davids:
"Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes".
Now I rate Scholes but it seems weird to have too such esteemed players bum licking him so much. Xavi plays with a far superior player in Iniesta and is better himself. Davids played with better midfielders too. Between about 1995 and 2003, Scholes was top notch. Can't argue with that. But he only retired at the end of last season and he didn't do a great deal between 05 and 11. 15 premier league goals from the 05/06 season to the 10/11 season is a pretty paltry return. Lamps has scored 81 Premier League goals in those same seasons.
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