2007 replies to this topic

[Castiel]

Arq, on 10 February 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Luckilly for us, this article also has Drogba in the bottom 10...

With this link, I'm not sure if trying to support the argument that it's Torres that's the issue or our front man in general.

I know this isn't what you meant Arq but can we stop this nonsense with Drogba?  So far this season he's been knocked unconscious and had a metal plate removed from his arm and he's still killing teams at the ACN.  Not to mention the fact that he's almost 34.  I have my suspicions that he is in fact, the terminator.

Unless Torres absolutely obliterates Everton, there is no question in my mind that Drogba should be immediately reinstated to the starting line up upon his return.

[TrojanMan]

Castiel, on 11 February 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

I know this isn't what you meant Arq but can we stop this nonsense with Drogba?  So far this season he's been knocked unconscious and had a metal plate removed from his arm and he's still killing teams at the ACN.  

Doesn't the fact that he IS scoring at ACoN and wasn't really scoring for us also support the point that our strikers - Torres or otherwise - aren't getting good service?

[TrojanMan]

Spiller86, on 10 February 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

For Gods sake, now its everyone elses fault that he isn't in the box?

Whose fault is this then?

Of course he's responsible for leaving the box.  Nobody else controls his feet.  The point is that he's not getting service in the box, and he's desperate for a goal, so he's pressing.  That leads him out of the box and trying to pick up the ball deeper.

I wish he'd just be selfish and park his butt on the penalty spot so he could poach a few.  But then people would be complaining that he doesn't run enough and contribute in other areas.

[Spiller86]

TrojanMan, on 11 February 2012 - 01:23 AM, said:

Of course he's responsible for leaving the box.  Nobody else controls his feet.  The point is that he's not getting service in the box, and he's desperate for a goal, so he's pressing.  That leads him out of the box and trying to pick up the ball deeper.

I wish he'd just be selfish and park his butt on the penalty spot so he could poach a few.  But then people would be complaining that he doesn't run enough and contribute in other areas.

Well assuming he'd be scoring if he was in better positions, then there wouldn't be an issue with not running because he'd be scoring.

TrojanMan, on 11 February 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Doesn't the fact that he IS scoring at ACoN and wasn't really scoring for us also support the point that our strikers - Torres or otherwise - aren't getting good service?

SydneyChelsea is of the belief that since Mourinho we have never really managed to get the best out of any of our strikers, and Drogba scores purely because he is a freak of nature. Only Anelka under Scolari has resembled a proper striker according to him.

I don't necessarily subscribe to that view, and I'd have to say that given the service for Drogba is coming from Kalou then one has to wonder exactly why he can't score with Juan Mata providing it instead?

[Backbiter]

My son's just shown me this:



It would be nice to see something similar for us one day.

Edited by Backbiter, 11 February 2012 - 02:46 PM.

[charierre]

http://www.thegoalposts.com/showthread.php?p=1330416#post1330416   saw this GIF on Redcafe also posted here , made me laugh

[SydneyChelsea]

Spiller86, on 11 February 2012 - 04:17 AM, said:

SydneyChelsea is of the belief that since Mourinho we have never really managed to get the best out of any of our strikers, and Drogba scores purely because he is a freak of nature. Only Anelka under Scolari has resembled a proper striker according to him.

He's got a good point.

I don't expect that to change soon under Villas-Boas, There's definitely a trend towards asymmetry in the systems. Both of them play a lone striker who is anything but what is expected from a centre-forward, the striker expected to drop deep and wide and while he is still the focus of the attack, he is equal parts playmaker and goalscorer. The asymmetry tends to bring one of the wide forwards in as a principal goal threat-  Messi, Ronaldo, Sturridge, Malouda under Ancelotti, Muller/Goetze/Iniesta for their NTs. Gives the wingers way more room to cut inside or get one-v-one with a defender.

I think in that role though it depends entire on the confidence of the centre-forward. Arsenal look sh*t-hot with RvP in the form he is in, City likewise depending on who is in that central role, Gudjohnsen in November 2004, Suarez improving Liverpool tenfold. They don't get clear-cut chances very often but they seem to be incredibly clinical. Torres certainly shows that if your confidence is off then you look very, very average in the role. IMO the key difference is that there's no room to play your way into confidence in this system, you either have it or you don't. I'm struggling to think of a lone striker who "played their way in" to a system.

And thus we're left in a predicament, having to choose between one striker who has the confidence but doesn't have the legs for consistency and another striker who has the ability but doesn't have the confidence, his assist tally indicative of his inclination to pass the buck rather than take responsibility.

FWIW- as a side note- isn't this really odd because it's pretty much the same problem at Sydney FC at the moment! Substitute Bruno Cazarine for Drogba and Mark Bridge for Torres.

Edited by SydneyChelsea, 13 February 2012 - 05:49 AM.

[Spiller86]

It's an interesting thought no doubt. In answer to your aside I was very impressed with SydneyFC on the weekend, Emerton's goal was top class all round.

I've been trying to get a hold of some matches from Scolari's season to see actually how we got Anelka to score, haven't been able to yet. Secondly I wonder about the potency of Falcao last season under a very similar system at Porto whereby he and Hulk had bumper seasons.

Torres himself has immensely poor first touch, which for me is the key to strikers playing away from goal. I was really stunned at how bad it is. Given all that you've mentioned I'm wondering if more of a deep-lying striker like Rossi (depending on his injury recovery) may be a better shot for our current situation.

[SydneyChelsea]

Yeah Falcao is a problematic one but the thing about Falcao is his record at Porto was somewhat embellished by some big runs of goalscoring in single games. That's confidence for you and maybe confidence is the single biggest predictor of success in that role, provided the player has a minimal standard of technical and physical ability.

Torres is immensely un-Spanish. He's got a fair few party tricks (which in itself is strange as not many Spanish players pull them out) but his first touch is poor and he relies on his strength and speed to bully defenders just as much he uses his skill. First touch though is mediated by confidence, the more confident you are the more automatic the process, the more automatic you are the more likely you are to apply appropriate force. Drogba, again, is a perfect example, when he plays badly he has the first touch of Ivan Milat but when he's on song he rivals Ronaldinho.

[Ballack & Blu]

That GIF on that link made me laugh,proving scousers are only funny ha ha

[SydneyChelsea]

Liam said:

You've seen a lot of him Pauly over the years. How does he look to you in general at the moment compared to what you've seen? I mean in terms of his movement, sharpness and general demeanor on the pitch.

Pauly, on 23 January 2007 - 06:56 PM, said:

To me he looks discouraged- the running and chasing is the part of his game that has surfaced because he's become discouraged. He has tried to adapt, tried to come and get the ball from the midfield and really get into games and be the star with the ball that his character demands, but i just think he has grown disillusioned with it because it's not his game and it was not working in terms of him scoring goals. I think he looks without a lot of hope and that is why you see him digging in his heels and running. personal opinion of course!

[Zeta Orionis]

I decided a while ago not to shave until he scores for us.

There is of course a high possibility that he'll not score again this season and then leave, which is me pretty much f**ked unless he manages to score an own goal when playing against us.

[10to10]

he seems to be very humble:

http://www.dailymail...al-drought.html

[TrojanMan]

10to10, on 16 February 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

he seems to be very humble:

http://www.dailymail...al-drought.html

Those are the reasons I so badly want him to succeed.  He's humble, he's not complaining, he's not pointing fingers, he's not sulking, he's still busting his butt when he's on the field, etc., etc.  If the entire starting XI played with his attitude we'd be in much better shape.  (insert joke here about if the entire starting XI had his scoring record, we'd be in a relegation battle).

I just don't know what to do with him anymore.  If he's never going to come good in a blue shirt then he needs to be sold.  This run is terrible for his confidence, and the media frenzy about it is bad for the club.  We'll see what the summer  holds.  If there are wholesale changes, then I imagine Torres will still be here --- the thinking being that a change in tactics and personnel might finally play to his strengths.  But if it's only a couple of new faces in and old faces out, then he should probably go too.  I just don't see Torres and this style ever working together.

[Zola]

10to10, on 16 February 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

he seems to be very humble:

http://www.dailymail...al-drought.html

Humble? The man is destroyed ! It is virtually impossible for him to be boastful/cocky/whatever about anything, apart from his bank balance perhaps.

He's got zero confidence and has become a square peg.

I doubt it will ever work out for him at Chelsea, in the current setup.

Edited by Zola, 16 February 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Backbiter]

Quote

'My managers taught me to work because that’s the only way to get a reward. It’s what I’ve always done and it’s the only way I know, so I’ll keep preparing for the games the same way.'
'Every player or athlete is different,' he continued. 'I did some visualisation in the past but it didn’t help me.
'I don’t do it here at Chelsea because I just find the way to prepare that works for me. When it’s two days before the game, I start thinking about the other team and their defenders since I know more or less the weaknesses and strengths they have.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1mYkE8wWd

Mmmm. So how bad were things when he decided visualisation didn't work for him?

And if he feels the way he prepares now works for him, .......

EDIT: Grrrrr Daily Heil formatting

Edited by Backbiter, 16 February 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[WV2 Blue]

Admittance....

http://sport.uk.msn....ot-score-torres

[Zeta Orionis]

Well they say the first step is admitting you have a problem..

[SydneyChelsea]

As much as I like both AVB and Torres, they seem to have a penchant for diagnosing what's wrong but having little idea how to change it.

[SydneyChelsea]

Although we don't know its full extent he seems to focus on others rather than himself in his, mental prep, which represents everything wrong with the Torres saga