30 replies to this topic

[moi]

An interesting article from Graham Spiers here with six main causes (according to him) why Scottish international football has declined over the years.

There are some interesting replies too

http://www.heraldsco...ign=email+alert

[RFC_CFC]

Spiers is a handwringer.

Hate that man.

[moi]

Spiers is a handwringer.

Hate that man.

But apart from that, what do you think about the points he raises?

[mad_mac]

His six points are:

1. The death of street football, a modern necessity, killed off the “natural womb” of talent the country once had. Scottish kids once played fitba’ til the dying of the light. No more. I would say this is a decent point, I don't see kids playing "wally" or other games on the street like we used to


2. Scottish society improved, social conditions were enhanced, and the urchin-footballer went with it. Social deprivation was once a prolific conveyor-belt of gifted players. No more. He's obviously not visited some areas of Scotland recently. the sad fact is, some of the poor areas of Glasgow etc have burned out cars in the football pitch, and needles and broken glass on the pitch


3. The Scottish FA endured decades of complacent neglect. While other countries – the Scandinavians – were putting coaching structures in place, the Scottish FA said: “We’re alright, we’re going to all these World Cups.” What a price Scotland has paid. I actually think that this is one of the more poignant issues. The Scottish FA has been negligent for a while, not only in investing in infrastructure and coaching, but also in the internal bickering that had good, Scottish players avoiding playing for the national team.


4. The modern “idle age” means kids no longer go out to play. At one time you put a jumper down in a park. In recent times you’d open a computer screen while scoffing Monster Munches. Yeah, but this is true of society as a whole...not just Scotland.


5. Rangers and Celtic in part killed the “grow your own” culture of Scottish football by spending two decades buying in “big names”. Other SPL clubs scrambled to keep pace. Patience in rearing young Scots went by the wayside. Ah, blame the foreigner...classic. I think it stems more from infrastructure, rather than singling out Celtic and Rangers. Other teams in England used to scramble to but Scottish players, and they could pay them more than Scottish teams could. Therefore, Scotland had to look abroad because their was no infrastructure bringing the next crop through. in fact...it's all ENGLAND'S fault ( I jest).


6. Football used to dominate school sports – in part unfairly. Today other sports have muscled in on the agenda. Educationally, Scotland has ceased to be a football-orientated country. I could go along with this, it does seem that there are more choices, but it has been close to two decades since I left school, so I can't say. one thing I know is we used to have after school football, usually put on by a teacher. And that has died, presumably by teachers being too scared of a child being hurt?
We also used to play, Student v Teacher games, and I think they have died. Finally, my dad used to rent out teh School Gym in the winter a couple of times a week and we'd play a couple hours of indoor. I remember as I was getting finished, the school told my dad that he couldn't do this anymore until he either became a teacher, or passed certain coaching courses....that killed it. But, again, this all shows lack of options (understand I live on an Island, so options were always limited) outside of school, and again a lack of infrastructure to get kids excited.

Scott

Edited by mad_mac, 21 November 2012 - 12:44 AM.

[erskblue]

As a kid in the mid 1970s-early 1980s, we used to get a ball, go out and try and be our heroes playing football in the street/park.

Now kids plug in their 'FIFA13' and are their heroes on the screen.

I'll read points, though I can't stand the lies that guy writes, particularly about Rangers.

[RFC_CFC]

But apart from that, what do you think about the points he raises?

Nothing because he is a proven liar who refuses to back up his preivious statements.

It's great to watch this worm squirm on live radio and TV this week.

[Mike Carefree]

Im sorry to say but in a way it was a good thing Rangers went down purely because it gives 1 or 2 other teams a chance to go for it to win the league..The decline maybe because , i dont mean to be rude, but IMO, scottish footy is akin to our 1st n 2nd divisions and i feel nobody wants to plow their money into non prolific footy..At the end of the day scotland is really only prolific if it has anything to do with Celtic or Rangers

[RFC_CFC]

No other team other than Celtic will ever win the SPL while Rangers are not there...

They have just made a near £20 million from the CL...it would take other teams 10-15 years to make that in Scottish football....

[Tommy26]

who cares ?

[moi]

who cares ?

 

 

Well, clearly not you, but if you have more words at your disposal, it would be interesting to hear why you don't care.

[Jonty]

I'd say virtually all of that is relevant to how sh*te England has been as well.

 

Although you'd have to add the point that even if we do produce a good player, he'll just be vilified and hated by the media and end up not giving a sh*t if he plays well or not.

[Fast Eddie]

My minor penneth in bullets below.

 

His six points are:

1. The death of street football, a modern necessity, killed off the “natural womb” of talent the country once had. Scottish kids once played fitba’ til the dying of the light. No more. I would say this is a decent point, I don't see kids playing "wally" or other games on the street like we used to

- Yes street football is effectively dead due to many more cars being on the road either parked up or moving at greater speeds, even on estates on many corners you'll find many signs stating 'no ball games'


2. Scottish society improved, social conditions were enhanced, and the urchin-footballer went with it. Social deprivation was once a prolific conveyor-belt of gifted players. No more. He's obviously not visited some areas of Scotland recently. the sad fact is, some of the poor areas of Glasgow etc have burned out cars in the football pitch, and needles and broken glass on the pitch

- Not so many cars and needles any more but much more dog sh*t - nasty nasty stuff (dog numbers have effectively doubled since the 70's probably because more people can afford to keep a dog now


3. The Scottish FA endured decades of complacent neglect. While other countries – the Scandinavians – were putting coaching structures in place, the Scottish FA said: “We’re alright, we’re going to all these World Cups.” What a price Scotland has paid. I actually think that this is one of the more poignant issues. The Scottish FA has been negligent for a while, not only in investing in infrastructure and coaching, but also in the internal bickering that had good, Scottish players avoiding playing for the national team.

- Agree, it's well known that Scotland hasn’t qualified for a major competition since '96. Club incomes have not grown and there really has to be a look at where Scotland as football business is going.


4. The modern “idle age” means kids no longer go out to play. At one time you put a jumper down in a park. In recent times you’d open a computer screen while scoffing Monster Munches. Yeah, but this is true of society as a whole...not just Scotland.


5. Rangers and Celtic in part killed the “grow your own” culture of Scottish football by spending two decades buying in “big names”. Other SPL clubs scrambled to keep pace. Patience in rearing young Scots went by the wayside. Ah, blame the foreigner...classic. I think it stems more from infrastructure, rather than singling out Celtic and Rangers. Other teams in England used to scramble to but Scottish players, and they could pay them more than Scottish teams could. Therefore, Scotland had to look abroad because their was no infrastructure bringing the next crop through. in fact...it's all ENGLAND'S fault ( I jest).


6. Football used to dominate school sports – in part unfairly. Today other sports have muscled in on the agenda. Educationally, Scotland has ceased to be a football-orientated country. I could go along with this, it does seem that there are more choices, but it has been close to two decades since I left school, so I can't say. one thing I know is we used to have after school football, usually put on by a teacher. And that has died, presumably by teachers being too scared of a child being hurt?
We also used to play, Student v Teacher games, and I think they have died. Finally, my dad used to rent out teh School Gym in the winter a couple of times a week and we'd play a couple hours of indoor. I remember as I was getting finished, the school told my dad that he couldn't do this anymore until he either became a teacher, or passed certain coaching courses....that killed it. But, again, this all shows lack of options (understand I live on an Island, so options were always limited) outside of school, and again a lack of infrastructure to get kids excited.

Scott

- Absolutely, I wanted to have a kick about with my boys and anyone else who wanted to stay behind after their training and told this is absolutely off-limits unless I completed a CRB and attended a Child Welfare course. In the end I did an FA Level 1 and was then told the boys shouldn't be playing for any longer than 1 hour - what bollocks.

- The guy who said 'who cares' should because the same issues affect England bar the better infrastructure.

Edited by Fast Eddie, 07 February 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Maksimov]

Im sorry to say but in a way it was a good thing Rangers went down purely because it gives 1 or 2 other teams a chance to go for it to win the league.

I think it just makes Celtic's job a whole lot easier. It does give other teams a better chance to qualify for Europe as 2nd place is now up for grabs.

[Tim W]

Has it declined or just stood still while other nations have caught up and surpassed as happens in most sports

[bluegraham]

Scottish football has being dying for years and with rangers out of the premier it makes it even worse. Im sure Celtic fans miss rangers because all they had was the old firm to look forward to.

[erskblue]

The Scottish National Team has probably been in decline since about 1998.

[SydneyChelsea]

There's also the small problem of Scotland's best players playing in England, not Scotland. Once that happens, it's a snowball effect.

[moi]

There's also the small problem of Scotland's best players playing in England, not Scotland. Once that happens, it's a snowball effect.

 

 

Here's one of the early escapees

 

[Mike Carefree]

SCOTTISH football ?................Akin to our Blue square leagues

[erskblue]

Here's one of the early escapees

 

Amazing player.