Gary Cahill - PL CL FAC LC EL champion

[Nibs]

I thought Cahill looked poor against City, he was caught out with a ball over the top on more than one occasion and had to make last minute blocks/clearances to make amends.

 

The trouble is, those last minute blocks and tackles look impressive and so it can look like he is playing well, my opinion is that he could have prevented a lot of those situations earlier. 

 

All central defenders would struggle a bit when playing against a player like Aguerro, esepcially when the defensive cover (DM) they have playing in front of them is pretty much non-existant.

 

Cahill was clear MOTM for us on Sunday and on Chelsea TV last night they highlighted he has blocked 42 shots for us this season. I think the next highest was Ivan on 11. Cahill isn't as good as JT or Carvalho or Gallas when they were at their peak but he is still a very decent defender and they all had the luxury of having Makalele giving them extra cover when they were looking their best.

[ethicalstrategy]

He has decent pace, obviously not as much as Luiz but that's not too much of a concern. I would say he is okay on the ball, better than Terry and Ivan in my view, but not a ball-playing centre back by any means (which is fine since that's not the type of defender he is).

 

There is no way he is better on the ball than Terry.  If you believe that then you clearly haven't been watching Terry play for the last 13 years.

[Zeta]

Cahill had no cover at CB against City. Mikel was on a Sunday afternoon stroll around the park and Luiz was continually running forward with the ball and losing it. I'd say Cahill was probably one of our best players on the day.

[stamford_blue]

Since you have listed two options for every position, mind analyzing the drop in quality between the two players. Let me give it a shot

 

Cech - Turnbull 

(Lesser said the better about them)

 

Azpililueta - Paulo Ferreira

(when was the last time Paulo ferreira started a game? There is a reason he hasnt been given the vote to start by manager after manager)

 

Ivanovic - Cahill

Terry - Luiz  

(Terry has been injured/suspended for a long period this season, Luiz was also injured for a few weeks and was also covering in midfield in quite a few matches)

 

Cole - Bertrand

(In the few games that Bertrand has started, his wing has been properly exploited and safe to say there is a huge gulf in quality b/w the two players)

 

Hazard - Marin

(Marin has been injured and in poor form and there have been no indications to suggest he can even perform at half of what Hazard does)

 

Lampard - Mikel

(Forget the fact that neither of them is suited to play in the pivot (Lampard's eagerness to make forward runs and Mikel's lack of effort), Mikel has been away for 1.5 months as well)

 

Ramires-Romeu

(Romeu has been injured December, we have had to bring in Luiz from defense to midfield to give the occasional rest to Ramires)

 

Oscar - Moses

( Moses is not an option against quality sides)

 

Mata

 

Torres - Ba

 

I am not saying the squad is underperforming but it will be wrong to place the blame squarely on that. Fixture congestion has been a major reason for poor performances as well.

[ethicalstrategy]

I disagree, Cahill is definitely quicker than Iva or JT, obviously he's not going to win a race against Walcott or Aguero, but the majority of EPL strikers he should be quick enough to keep up with them, I haven't seen forwards getting in behind him frequently.

 

As for being poor on the ball, I'm pretty sure he was a center midfielder while at Villa so i'm not sure thats true either.

 

I agree that he is quicker than JT - but then who isn't? Not sure about Iva, but that's not really the point.  He doesn't have the pace or mobility of Carvalho or Gallas.  A large part of our success defensively was down to having centre half who complimented each other rather than duplicated.  Terry and Cahill and Ivanovic will never make a good centre half pairing which ever way you spin it.

 

You haven't seen forwards getting in behind him?  I saw it on Sunday and there are lots of other occasions too.

 

I'm not saying he can't control a football.  I'm saying that the opposition are quite happy to let him have the ball because they know he can't hurt them.

 

And, just to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying he's rubbish.  I am saying that he wouldn't be my first choice centre back.  He's excellent cover for JT.  But I think both he and JT need a more mobile player alongside them.

[Guest RFC_CFC]

Since you have listed two options for every position, mind analyzing the drop in quality between the two players. Let me give it a shot

 

Cech - Turnbull 

(Lesser said the better about them)

 

Azpililueta - Paulo Ferreira

(when was the last time Paulo ferreira started a game? There is a reason he hasnt been given the vote to start by manager after manager)

 

Ivanovic - Cahill

Terry - Luiz  

(Terry has been injured/suspended for a long period this season, Luiz was also injured for a few weeks and was also covering in midfield in quite a few matches)

 

Cole - Bertrand

(In the few games that Bertrand has started, his wing has been properly exploited and safe to say there is a huge gulf in quality b/w the two players)

 

Hazard - Marin

(Marin has been injured and in poor form and there have been no indications to suggest he can even perform at half of what Hazard does)

 

Lampard - Mikel

(Forget the fact that neither of them is suited to play in the pivot (Lampard's eagerness to make forward runs and Mikel's lack of effort), Mikel has been away for 1.5 months as well)

 

Ramires-Romeu

(Romeu has been injured December, we have had to bring in Luiz from defense to midfield to give the occasional rest to Ramires)

 

Oscar - Moses

( Moses is not an option against quality sides)

 

Mata

 

Torres - Ba

 

I am not saying the squad is underperforming but it will be wrong to place the blame squarely on that. Fixture congestion has been a major reason for poor performances as well.

I'm not talking about the quality I was poitning out we don't have a 'small' squad which was the issue in the post.

Every club outside of City has the same issues yet many are dealing with it better then we are including Spuds.

I will be placing the blame on underporming and sh*tty management as the majority of the players have not exactly been killing themselves in the games so far to be allowed the excuse that they are now tired.

 

[Remodez]

There is no way he is better on the ball than Terry.  If you believe that then you clearly haven't been watching Terry play for the last 13 years.

Wouldn't go that far myself but he is more than competent with the ball at his feet and proved that at Bolton were he was playing great passes. It's hard to say why players stand of him at times, I mean players stand off Terry too when he has the ball at times but that doesn't really mean anything as we know he's very good on the ball.

 

Seeing as he's played with Ivan most of the season, I would say the reason they stand off him is because out of the two Ivan is more error prone and if they allow Ivan to get forward he can hurt them so they would naturally focus more on him than Cahill. Same with when Cahill plays with Luiz. 

[stamford_blue]

I'm not talking about the quality I was poitning out we don't have a 'small' squad which was the issue in the post.

Every club outside of City has the same issues yet many are dealing with it better then we are including Spuds.

I will be placing the blame on underporming and sh*tty management as the majority of the players have not exactly been killing themselves in the games so far to be allowed the excuse that they are now tired.

 

 

Before this weekend's game against WBA, we would have played 48 games this season

ManU have played 40 games

ManC have played 38 games

Spurs have played 39 games

Arsenal have played 41 games this seaon

 

About 20% more games than other teams. Is it clear now?

and how can you not talk about quality? Will you have confidence in a starting XI comprising of Marin, Bertrand, Ferreira, Mikel, Turnbull??

Edited February 26, 2013 by stamford_blue

[Teritus]

There is no way he is better on the ball than Terry.  If you believe that then you clearly haven't been watching Terry play for the last 13 years.

 

That is just my opinion, he just seems a little more comfortable with his touches. In any case there's very little in it at the moment, at least.

[Guest RFC_CFC]

Before this weekend's game against WBA, we would have played 48 games this season

ManU have played 40 games

ManC have played 38 games

Spurs have played 39 games

Arsenal have played 41 games this seaon

 

About 20% more games than other teams. Is it clear now?

and how can you not talk about quality? Will you have confidence in a starting XI comprising of Marin, Bertrand, Ferreira, Mikel, Turnbull??

We won the European cup what do you expect?

United have done it before if you care to remember did they complain? Did they f**k!

A team made up of PL winners, CL winners and ones who have played in the Bundasliga should be more than enough to step in and help yes, why should it not? Bad management and poor form?

You seem to be lapping up the excuses, well good for you.

I don't and it's a bloddy embarrassment if we dont get top 4, maybe if our players didnt f**k up in so many games we wouldnt have replays would we?

[stamford_blue]

We won the European cup what do you expect?

United have done it before if you care to remember did they complain? Did they f**k!

A team made up of PL winners, CL winners and ones who have played in the Bundasliga should be more than enough to step in and help yes, why should it not? Bad management and poor form?

You seem to be lapping up the excuses, well good for you.

I don't and it's a bloddy embarrassment if we dont get top 4, maybe if our players didnt f**k up in so many games we wouldnt have replays would we?

The entire season, we have had just 1 replay, against Brantford.

I am not lapping up excuses, I am being realistic.

Turnbull: when was he ever a key member or played significant number of games in a PL winning season?

Ferreira: He took part in a sum total of 9 games last season (most of them being sub experiences). He hasnt had the confidence of AVB, RDM or Benitez and considering his age and declining performances in the years before that who can blame them.

Bertrand: Was he ever a key member of a CL winning/PL winning squad? He played just one game in CL last year (arguably the biggest game but in a different role at LW and in a formation where he had limited duties and expectaitons)

Marin: The lesser said the better and similarly for Mikel. 

 

Lets look at the number of games played by some of our players viz a viz others:

Petr Cech: 37

Ivanovic: 38

Cahill: 37

David Luiz: 36

Ashley Cole: 39

Ramires: 41

Mata: 45

Oscar: 41

Hazard: 44

Torres: 44

 

ManU

De Gea: 28

Rafael: 32

Evans: 23

Smalling: 18

Ferdinand: 20

Jones: 15

Vidic; 15

Evra: 25

Carrick: 32

Cleverley: 24

Valencia: 27

Nani: 16

Ashley Young: 18

RVP: 32

Rooney: 26

Welbeck: 30 

Hernandez: 26

 

Arsenal

Szczesny: 25

Sagna: 21

Jenkinson: 18 

Mertesacker: 33

Koscielny: 23

Vermaelen: 33

Gibbs: 25

Arteta: 28

Cazorla: 35

Wilshere: 25

Ramsey: 35

Gervinho: 15

Walcott: 32

Giroud: 38

Podolski: 33

 

Spurs

Lloris: 22

Caulker: 23

Naughton: 19

Vertonghen: 27

Dawson: 14

gallas: 17

BAE: 4

Walker: 34

Sandro: 27

Parker: 11

Dembele: 27

Bale: 31

Lennon: 35

Defoe: 32

Dempsey: 33

Sigurdsson: 34

Adebayor: 20

 

If you still dont get it, then I give up. 

Edited February 26, 2013 by stamford_blue

[Guest RFC_CFC]

You have only highlighted 10 players there. We have a squad of players remember, if they are not used like the compeition then it's our own fault.

Marin has only appeared a handful of times, our youth players have not featured at all to my knowledge.

Did Barcelona complain about playing all these games, did Messi compalin about playing close to 60 games last season?

 

I think you will find no, because they get on with it.

Look you obviously are happy to drink in FSW excuses, good for you, I however am not.

 

 

[stamford_blue]

You have only highlighted 10 players there. We have a squad of players remember, if they are not used like the compeition then it's our own fault.

Marin has only appeared a handful of times, our youth players have not featured at all to my knowledge.

Did Barcelona complain about playing all these games, did Messi compalin about playing close to 60 games last season?

 

I think you will find no, because they get on with it.

Look you obviously are happy to drink in FSW excuses, good for you, I however am not.

 

 

Come on man. I have highlighted the 10 players who have played the most to show how they have been overplayed.

What youth players do you speak of? Do you see them appearing regularly at other clubs? 

Messi plays a majority of his games in La Liga where the gulf in quality b/w Barcelona and most of the sides is huge and the lesser physicality of their league ensures he doesnt have to burst an extra lung. However, I dont think you are in a mood to apply your brain, so here you go.

 

YOU ARE RIGHT. WE SHOULD BE LEADING THE PL TABLE AT THIS POINT, SHOULD STILL HAVE BEEN COMPETING IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE, SHOULD HAVE WON COCUP BY NOW AND BE COMFORTABLY THROUGH TO THE LAST 8 OF FA CUP, NOT TO MENTION THE SUPER CUP AND WORLD CLUB CUP SHOULD HAVE BEEN OURS AS WELL. 

[ForeverCarefree]

The entire season, we have had just 1 replay, against Brantford.

I am not lapping up excuses, I am being realistic.

Turnbull: when was he ever a key member or played significant number of games in a PL winning season?

Ferreira: He took part in a sum total of 9 games last season (most of them being sub experiences). He hasnt had the confidence of AVB, RDM or Benitez and considering his age and declining performances in the years before that who can blame them.

Bertrand: Was he ever a key member of a CL winning/PL winning squad? He played just one game in CL last year (arguably the biggest game but in a different role at LW and in a formation where he had limited duties and expectaitons)

Marin: The lesser said the better and similarly for Mikel. 

 

Lets look at the number of games played by some of our players viz a viz others:

Petr Cech: 37

Ivanovic: 38

Cahill: 37

David Luiz: 36

Ashley Cole: 39

Ramires: 41

Mata: 45

Oscar: 41

Hazard: 44

Torres: 44

 

Isn't that more to do with poor squad management?

 

Marin hasn't been given back to back games at any point.

 

Ferreria should be filling in during FA Cup and League Cup games against lower league opposition.

 

. 

[stamford_blue]

Isn't that more to do with poor squad management?

 

Marin hasn't been given back to back games at any point.

 

Ferreria should be filling in during FA Cup and League Cup games against lower league opposition.

 

. 

or may be it is an indicator of the confidence of the manager in these players. Ferreira hasnt been in the team plans of our last 3 managers. 

Marin started a couple of games and was woeful (should have been off in the first 10 minutes vs QPR). 

Bertrand has been tried but his performances were poor (Shakhtar game anyone)

Turnbull, well we all saw his performances when Cech was injured.

Before I get repititive, I will take this topic's leave. 

[Guest RFC_CFC]

So Barcelona can play as many games with the players not complaining because La Liga is piss easy?

Nope not for me.

[stamford_blue]

So Barcelona can play as many games with the players not complaining because La Liga is piss easy?

Nope not for me.

You Sir, with your degree in exaggerations and misquoting are RIGHT. I AM SORRY.

[ForeverCarefree]

or may be it is an indicator of the confidence of the manager in these players. Ferreira hasnt been in the team plans of our last 3 managers. 

Marin started a couple of games and was woeful (should have been off in the first 10 minutes vs QPR). 

Bertrand has been tried but his performances were poor (Shakhtar game anyone)

Turnbull, well we all saw his performances when Cech was injured.

Before I get repititive, I will take this topic's leave. 

 

Marin against QPR and Brentford was put into the starting XI of much changed sides.

 

Instead of including him in a team line up consisting of the first team regulars and playing in place of Oscar, Hazard or Mata he is put in a team with Bertrand playing out of position on the left midfield. 

 

I just don't see how a player making his starting debut is meant to influence a game in those circumstances. Again, poor squad management. 

 

Ferreria not being used, well he's there and can play anywhere across the back and holding midfield. The manager is complaining about a lack of depth and needing to rotate but isn't using all the tools at his disposal.... To me, again, poor squad management. 

 

Turnbull, well goalkeepers don't really suffer from fatigue so not really relevant to the discussion of number of games played.

 

You have to remember Romeu got injured for the season and Mikel went to the ACON so the central midfield was always going to be stretched but there were options such as playing Oscar deeper (allowing Marin to play oddly enough) but instead of doing this and managing his squad the Interim has kept picking from a small pool of players and then complaining about the number of games played.

[stamford_blue]

Marin against QPR and Brentford was put into the starting XI of much changed sides.

 

Instead of including him in a team line up consisting of the first team regulars and playing in place of Oscar, Hazard or Mata he is put in a team with Bertrand playing out of position on the left midfield. 

 

I just don't see how a player making his starting debut is meant to influence a game in those circumstances. Again, poor squad management. 

 

Ferreria not being used, well he's there and can play anywhere across the back and holding midfield. The manager is complaining about a lack of depth and needing to rotate but isn't using all the tools at his disposal.... To me, again, poor squad management. 

 

Turnbull, well goalkeepers don't really suffer from fatigue so not really relevant to the discussion of number of games played.

 

You have to remember Romeu got injured for the season and Mikel went to the ACON so the central midfield was always going to be stretched but there were options such as playing Oscar deeper (allowing Marin to play oddly enough) but instead of doing this and managing his squad the Interim has kept picking from a small pool of players and then complaining about the number of games played.

You guys are right, I am sorry for bringing up a wrong point. I can now see Marin tearing defenses apart and laying goals on a platter.

[Nibs]

I'm confused. Am I still in the Gary Cahill thread?!

[EdinburghBlue]

I agree that he is quicker than JT - but then who isn't? Not sure about Iva, but that's not really the point.  He doesn't have the pace or mobility of Carvalho or Gallas.  A large part of our success defensively was down to having centre half who complimented each other rather than duplicated.  Terry and Cahill and Ivanovic will never make a good centre half pairing which ever way you spin it.

 

You haven't seen forwards getting in behind him?  I saw it on Sunday and there are lots of other occasions too.

 

I'm not saying he can't control a football.  I'm saying that the opposition are quite happy to let him have the ball because they know he can't hurt them.

 

And, just to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying he's rubbish.  I am saying that he wouldn't be my first choice centre back.  He's excellent cover for JT.  But I think both he and JT need a more mobile player alongside them.

Not many Centre backs will from the half way line funnily enough, but if the balls loose outside the opposition 18 yard box, it would be Cahill I'd want running on to it.

[Davey Baby]

Cahill will never be a top centre-half IMO. Good cover but not good enough to hold down a first-team spot in a top side.

 

He lacks composure on the ball though he is certainly a better "footballer" than most centre-halves. He is also quick. Not lightning but quick enough. He also has a good attitude, is totally committed and seems like a nice lad. He can shoot and he's a threat at set-pieces as we know. The trouble is his defending, it's not good enough. The best centre-forwards will undo him time and time again, particularly with their movement but also with their skill.

 

JT always makes his fellow centre-half look twice as good as he is. The trouble you've got is JT's not playing, hence Cahill/Ivan/Luiz look a bit out of sorts.

 

If the FSW thinks our best back four excludes our skipper he is even more incompetent than I thought.

 

If JT says he's fit enough he's fit enough. Points wins prizes and we need the points.

[ethicalstrategy]

Not many Centre backs will from the half way line funnily enough, but if the balls loose outside the opposition 18 yard box, it would be Cahill I'd want running on to it.

 

Not many, but the best will.  It changes the whole dynamic of a game if the opposition are concerned that the centre half can bring the ball out of defence.  

[just]

Following last night's Rafa Rant Jason Cundy was having a right old ding dong with Andy Goldstein (Man U fan) on Talksport. Goldstein was trying to big up Benitez and pointed to his use of David Luiz in midfield. Cunday responded by saying it was not any insightful genius that had caused the changed, it was because Luiz can't defend !!

 

I would have added that Rafa has not stuck with him in midfield but rather as yoyo'ed Luiz from Centre-back, to midfield, to the bench with his usual rotational fervour.

[Jonty]

I'd trust him at CB more than Ivanovic or Luiz, and possibly even JT at this point who hasn't had the greatest 12 months, that being said obviously JT on form can be the best CB in the world.