Cesc Fabregas

[Cyborg7]

Clearly Fabregas must play in a middle to 3, with Baka and Kante who do the defensive work. 

[icecoolguy22]

Classy player, just needs to find the right formation to play him. We all knew he couldn't survive in the 2 men midfield, Conte knew it too, he just didn't have much options due to injuries.

[strider6004]

The only thing is by playing him we need to change our formation.

[dansubrosa]

Wouldn’t it be a good time to change the formation? It seems that the usual formation is being found out now and we have to work hard for 3 points as a result.

[strider6004]

Agree that we need more than one option and should consider sticking with it while it works and then revert to previous 3 forward players.

[icecoolguy22]

I think 352 should be our default formation, once we take control of the midfield, Morata doesn't need to come deep, Hazard could roam around the pitch to find the space, and wing backs have the confidence to push forward knowing they are covered. The 343 was a huge success last season , but teams have figured that out.

[JMaher94]

2 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

I think 352 should be our default formation, once we take control of the midfield, Morata doesn't need to come deep, Hazard could roam around the pitch to find the space, and wing backs have the confidence to push forward knowing they are covered. The 343 was a huge success last season , but teams have figured that out.

Don't agree that it's been figured out. We just haven't been able to play Kante and Bakayoko in a midfield two.

[Ukraine Bolt]

"I've found absolute happiness at Chelsea. The family is loving it, totally adapted to London life, the fans love me, I'm too happy to [move back]. From Barcelona I only miss my family and friends."

-Cesc Fàbregas; source: Vanity Fair

[TheChelsRVA]

On 11/9/2017 at 13:01, Strider6003 said:

The only thing is by playing him we need to change our formation.

3-5-2 has always been Conte's preferred formation, which is exactly the formation we would need to include cesc.  It puts 3 central midfielders on the pitch, with many variants possible.  

[kiwi1691]

9 hours ago, TheChelsRVA said:

3-5-2 has always been Conte's preferred formation

His preferred formation is 4-2-4, he adopted 3-5-2 at Juventus as it suited the players at his disposal. 

[strider6004]

12 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

His preferred formation is 4-2-4, he adopted 3-5-2 at Juventus as it suited the players at his disposal. 

If that is true should be a good sign indicating that he is a pragmatist rather than an idealist. 

[TheChelsRVA]

12 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

His preferred formation is 4-2-4, he adopted 3-5-2 at Juventus as it suited the players at his disposal. 

He played 3-5-2 with Italy as well.  This marks the third team in a row he has gone to the 3-5-2

[barak81]

Everything I have seen of Conte at chelsea and at Juve indicate he doesn't have a preferred formation or rather his preferred formation is the one that wins him games, suits his players and the environment. 

 

I think he believes in order to play the 3-5-2 he needed to box to box center mids, Matic as much as i rate him prehaps didn't offer enough going forwards for conte to sacrifice the additional winger. 

[kiwi1691]

4 hours ago, TheChelsRVA said:

He played 3-5-2 with Italy as well.  This marks the third team in a row he has gone to the 3-5-2

He played 3-5-2 with Italy because he had 3 great centre backs from Juventus playing for Italy. 

 

He regularly used 4-2-4 or 4-4-2 at all of the clubs he managed pre Juventus, and also when he started at Juventus. 

[Deino]

5 hours ago, TheChelsRVA said:

He played 3-5-2 with Italy as well.  This marks the third team in a row he has gone to the 3-5-2

He only picked the 352 due to the CBs. Consistency and familiarity was key for Italy. His crop of players weren't exactly that good though to build anything on other than the CBs.

The good ones were either early 20s or the wrong side of 30.

[TheChelsRVA]

21 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

He played 3-5-2 with Italy because he had 3 great centre backs from Juventus playing for Italy. 

 

He regularly used 4-2-4 or 4-4-2 at all of the clubs he managed pre Juventus, and also when he started at Juventus. 

 

20 hours ago, Deino said:

He only picked the 352 due to the CBs. Consistency and familiarity was key for Italy. His crop of players weren't exactly that good though to build anything on other than the CBs.

The good ones were either early 20s or the wrong side of 30.

I understand he had 3 great CBs at Italy national team.  But he came to Chelsea and moved Dave (the best Left Back in the league at the time) to CB so he could specifically use 3 atb.  Every article I read says his preferred formation is a 3 atb.  So I am only going on what I know of him with Juventus, Italy, and now us where he has ultimately gone to 3-5-2.  

I see both of your points and don't know anything about his time prior to Juventus.  All I can go by is what he has done since 2011, and everywhere he goes it eventually ends up 3-5-2.  

[Deino]

12 hours ago, TheChelsRVA said:

 

I understand he had 3 great CBs at Italy national team.  But he came to Chelsea and moved Dave (the best Left Back in the league at the time) to CB so he could specifically use 3 atb.  Every article I read says his preferred formation is a 3 atb.  So I am only going on what I know of him with Juventus, Italy, and now us where he has ultimately gone to 3-5-2.  

I see both of your points and don't know anything about his time prior to Juventus.  All I can go by is what he has done since 2011, and everywhere he goes it eventually ends up 3-5-2.  

The only reason he converted Azpi into a CB was because we kept leaking goals behind and was consistently pegged back on the wings. Brana couldn't do the business anymore and was roasted by pretty much every winger. Azpi at RB/LB was fine but everywhere else the defence looked shaky.

We played with 4141 but Kante and Matic kept getting in each other's way so he had to solidify the back first then the midfield. 3 at the back was perfect for us because it lessens Luiz's mistake, highlights Azpi's good qualities and allows Cahill more time and options on the ball. 

For Conte, he's always said that he'd find the formation to suit the team instead of picking the players to suit a formation.

http://www.squawka.com/news/conte-i-think-chelsea-have-found-the-right-system/812425

[TheChelsRVA]

Again, every manager will say they will find the formation that best fits the squad.  His philosophy, and his players, always seem suit to 3 atb.  He took the best lb in the league and moved him to cb.  He altered formation in pl which typically never utilize 3 atb and now everyone is doing it.  We had won the league in a 4 atb formation with much the same players.  

It is no coincidence that everywhere he goes his players are "more suited to 3 atb."  I don't think it's a problem either, but it is clearly a way he prefers his football.  https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antonio-conte/profil/trainer/3517

anyway this is the fabregas thread, I apologize for derailing. 

[Deino]

13 hours ago, TheChelsRVA said:

Again, every manager will say they will find the formation that best fits the squad.  His philosophy, and his players, always seem suit to 3 atb.  He took the best lb in the league and moved him to cb.  He altered formation in pl which typically never utilize 3 atb and now everyone is doing it.  We had won the league in a 4 atb formation with much the same players.  

It is no coincidence that everywhere he goes his players are "more suited to 3 atb."  I don't think it's a problem either, but it is clearly a way he prefers his football.  https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/antonio-conte/profil/trainer/3517

anyway this is the fabregas thread, I apologize for derailing. 

You're not wrong on though, I guess he'll always be someone who'll go 3 CB because he likes his players to play the ball from the back.

Pep could do it with Barca and Bayern because of Hummels and Puyol. I doubt there'll be a CB attainable atm that is as astute defensively and technically as those two.

----

Fabregas was superb. Controlled the game and 2 assists. Couldn't ask for more

Edited November 19, 2017 by Deino

[mojo]

 

[ForeverCarefree]

For all his defensive limitations, I just think we're a better team with Fabregas in the starting XI than without. 

His passing from midfield keeps us ticking over and stretches defences to much more. 

Plus, what about that 60 yard back pass to Courtouis last night?! 

[Munkunku]

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

For all his defensive limitations, I just think we're a better team with Fabregas in the starting XI than without. 

His passing from midfield keeps us ticking over and stretches defences to much more. 

Plus, what about that 60 yard back pass to Courtouis last night?! 

Let’s not encourage them to keep playing backwards now. A 60 yard forward pass in to one of our attacking players would be more like it. 

[Nibs]

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

For all his defensive limitations, I just think we're a better team with Fabregas in the starting XI than without. 

His passing from midfield keeps us ticking over and stretches defences to much more. 

Plus, what about that 60 yard back pass to Courtouis last night?! 

I agree, I am always more comfortable when I see Fabregas in the side rather than Drinkwater or Bakayoko - especially bearing in mind the latters woeful form.

That said, at times Fabregas can be a complete liability. Look at the game against Watford and that goal we conceded where the Watford player went past Fabregas as if he wasn't there. And last night his lunge that could easily have seen us concede an early penalty. He is just so slow it really is painful to watch. He has been a great player but I pray that at the very top of the clubs shopping list and most urgent requirement for next season is a replacement for Fab. A proven player in his 20's, with the vision and passing ability of Fab, but a whole lot quicker and stronger on the ball. 

Can we find such a player?

[ForeverCarefree]

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

I agree, I am always more comfortable when I see Fabregas in the side rather than Drinkwater or Bakayoko - especially bearing in mind the latters woeful form.

That said, at times Fabregas can be a complete liability. Look at the game against Watford and that goal we conceded where the Watford player went past Fabregas as if he wasn't there. And last night his lunge that could easily have seen us concede an early penalty. He is just so slow it really is painful to watch. He has been a great player but I pray that at the very top of the clubs shopping list and most urgent requirement for next season is a replacement for Fab. A proven player in his 20's, with the vision and passing ability of Fab, but a whole lot quicker and stronger on the ball. 

Can we find such a player?

Thing is, with three centre backs and two fullbacks playing we should be able to afford the luxury of having Fabregas and his lightweight defensive contribution on the pitch. 

No one else in the team spots passes and makes them with the effortless ease he does and I just think if we want to dominate the ball/possession then he's the sort of player you want in the team. 

As for replacing Fabregas, I would assume the plan is for Barkley (remember him?) to start taking his place over the next season. Don't think Barkley will ever get close to the type of vision Cesc has so we have to hope he develops more into a player who can score 15+ goals a season from midfield, hopefully giving us more of a threat from outside of the box. 

[Nibs]

13 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Thing is, with three centre backs and two fullbacks playing we should be able to afford the luxury of having Fabregas and his lightweight defensive contribution on the pitch. 

No one else in the team spots passes and makes them with the effortless ease he does and I just think if we want to dominate the ball/possession then he's the sort of player you want in the team. 

As for replacing Fabregas, I would assume the plan is for Barkley (remember him?) to start taking his place over the next season. Don't think Barkley will ever get close to the type of vision Cesc has so we have to hope he develops more into a player who can score 15+ goals a season from midfield, hopefully giving us more of a threat from outside of the box. 

Hmm, to be honest I had forgotten about Barkley! Really don't see him as a Fabregas replacement - more of an impact sub when we're chasing a game.

The player I always hoped we'd try and get is Verratti, but that was going back to when WE were signing top players whereas now PSG have usurped us and left us behind a bit, so why would he leave PSG for us. But that's the kind of profile player we need - right age, experience and ability.