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ForeverCarefree

Following Our Nearest & Dearest Rivals, 2016/2017

6,201 posts in this topic

He's 29 I believe and there's a world cup in a couple summers time.

My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek when I wrote that original post though.

 

If your tongue is in your cheek, how can I see it's there :smile: ?!

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Anyone else think we should try and get Shaqiri from Stoke? That worldy aside, he's a decent player.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

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If your tongue is in your cheek, how can I see it's there :smile: ?!

The only responses I can come up with to that are perverse.

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Anyone else think we should try and get Shaqiri from Stoke? That worldy aside, he's a decent player.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

No he's not, he's good on his day, but his day is like twice a season.

 

Apart from the game away to Everton, he was rubbish for Stoke last season.

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Also regarding Liverpool, if Mane is the best Klopp can do then im happy with it.

 

Mane is an inconsistent player in a borderline bipolar side, games which Mane, Coutinho and Firmino all show up and play they will be very tough to play against, but all 3 are inconsistent and on bad days it will be hilarious viewing.

 

Liverpool will be 6th at best next season.

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Maybe I'm harsh in this era, but that's an act of cowardice.

I'd have far more respect for him if he had the will and determination to preserve and seek redemption despite the recent shortcomings he's experienced with the national team.

The cynic in me thinks he'll still play for Argentina after some begging from the Argentinian fraternity.

Messi is not a coward. This is not an act of cowardice. If you don't already respect him for giving everything for a country that hasn't reciprocated, then of course you won't respect him now, and you'll never truly respect him.

Messi's best friend Kun Aguero said that he's never seen Messi so despondent. If he does return, it wouldn't show anything "cynical", but rather the desperation he feels. It's like people who talk about suicide when what they really want is not to die per se but to find relief from their suffering. The fact that they change their mind doesn't mean the pain wasn't real.

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Rage quitting international football after defeat and a penalty miss is petulant. Like a spoiled little kid. Had Ronaldo done this; football fans would be in a frenzy.

He's not rage quitting. He's quitting (or feels at the present time like he wants to) out of desperation and pain. There is nothing petulant, nothing cowardly, nothing selfish about wanting to avoid the possibility of experiencing such enormous pain again. Pain whose causes are as external as they are internal.

A great article on Messi noted that for him, being always surrounded is the same as being alone. Messi must feel very lonely right now because so many of those who swarm him wherever he goes don't have empathy or even sympathy for him.

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If Mane joined Liverpool which is looking very likely then he would be the fifth player from Southampton to join Liverpool after:

  1. Rickie Lambert
  2. Adam Lallana
  3. Dejan Lovren
  4. Nathaniel Clyde

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If Mane joined Liverpool which is looking very likely then he would be the fifth player from Southampton to join Liverpool after:

  • Rickie Lambert
  • Adam Lallana
  • Dejan Lovren
  • Nathaniel Clyde

They have pumped over £95 million into them in the past 3 seasons!

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He's 29!! If you've not had any major issues injury wise you should never be retiring at that age from international football.

The reasoning that he's lost 4 cup finals with them so is upset is ridiculous, I'm 23 and have seen my local team lose I think it's maybe 6 or 7 cup finals before last month, maybe I should retired from following them altogether.

As someone else said, I can't stand the debate about who is better but if Ronaldo turned around and done this people would go absolutely crazy about how selfish he is etc.. And he is in a much worse team than Messi is.

There's no excuse for that Argentine team not to be doing better than they are & no excuse to be retiring because you can't take getting beat.

That's my opinion anyway.

As for the GOAT argument, it could be argued Maradona took an inferior side to the World Cup victory in 86, but whether that has any bearing on it or not, I don't know.

Also, I think Liverpool transfer committee must live in Southampton, I wonder what percentage of their transfers in the last 3/4 years are from saints? Pretty high, I'd imagine.

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The reasoning that he's lost 4 cup finals with them so is upset is ridiculous, I'm 23 and have seen my local team lose I think it's maybe 6 or 7 cup finals before last month, maybe I should retired from following them altogether.

This is so out of touch I don't know what to say. It's remarkable anyone would compare supporting a local team to the stress and pressure and abuse that Messi has to endure from Argentinians. He's very well compensated for that (mainly from Barcelona and not the AFA which is a corrupt money laundering mini-FIFA), and he's decided that the compensation isn't worth it anymore.

A more appropriate comparison is an athlete who is the greatest in their sport ever, having sacrificed their entire childhood and moved to a foreign land to pursue the sport, and for one reason or another misses out on an Olympic spot four times by a fraction of a second.

As for the GOAT argument, it could be argued Maradona took an inferior side to the World Cup victory in 86, but whether that has any bearing on it or not, I don't know.

The same Maradona who CHEATED his way to the title and had the arrogance to say it was divine intervention? Who so poorly "managed" Argentina at the 2010 World Cup that he basically squandered any chance before the tournament even began? Who has talked sh*t about Messi for a decade?

The more I read reactions from football fans and Argentinians, the more I support Messi retiring however sad it makes me as a fan. They don't deserve him, and he doesn't deserve this abuse.

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I think Messi will come back, the pressure got to him and he called it quit, surely great players don't just quit like that at the peak of their power. As far as International career goes, Maradona is way ahead of Messi, whether Maradona was a pr1ck or not it's completely irrelevant. I was too young to remember 86 world cup, but Italy 90 Argentina had no right to get into the final. Yet, this Maradona guy somehow lead a bunch of poor players beat all the odds ( Brazil,Italy), had they not had their striker suspended, they probably would had a shot in the final. Look at the Argentina team 3 days ago, that's a far more superior team.

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This is so out of touch I don't know what to say. It's remarkable anyone would compare supporting a local team to the stress and pressure and abuse that Messi has to endure from Argentinians. He's very well compensated for that (mainly from Barcelona and not the AFA which is a corrupt money laundering mini-FIFA), and he's decided that the compensation isn't worth it anymore.

A more appropriate comparison is an athlete who is the greatest in their sport ever, having sacrificed their entire childhood and moved to a foreign land to pursue the sport, and for one reason or another misses out on an Olympic spot four times by a fraction of a second.

The same Maradona who CHEATED his way to the title and had the arrogance to say it was divine intervention? Who so poorly "managed" Argentina at the 2010 World Cup that he basically squandered any chance before the tournament even began? Who has talked sh*t about Messi for a decade?

The more I read reactions from football fans and Argentinians, the more I support Messi retiring however sad it makes me as a fan. They don't deserve him, and he doesn't deserve this abuse.

Such an exaggeration of how hard done by you're implying he is. You're clearly an over the top Messi fan who will defend pretty much anything he does regardless.

So do you think that athlete would just quit and give up? Baring in mind they missed it 4 times, but they already had 10 gold medals?

Because that's exactly what it is, no matter how you choose to sugar coat it, it's quitting. You're welcome to justify that as much as you like to me, but that's a weak mentality. He's won enough in his career, he should be capable of taking a few defeats on the chin.

What exactly does that his management skills etc have to do with Maradona as a player? Clutching at straws there or the handball.

Suarez stopped the ball on the line with his hand, does that make him a worse football player? Not a great sportsman or person perhaps, but a bad player, not in the slightest.

As I said the argument could be made, I didn't necessarily say I'd make it, personally I couldn't care less who is the GOAT, I just enjoy watching terrific players but I know that people debate it a lot.

Anyway we won't agree because you've reacted unhappily to everyone on this thread who's said anything remotely negative about Messi.

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Messi didn't sacrifice his childhood for goodness sake lol.

Barcelona came calling and got him out of Argentina while paying for his hefty medical bills so in effect they actually saved his childhood if anything.

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If Mane joined Liverpool which is looking very likely then he would be the fifth player from Southampton to join Liverpool after:

  1. Rickie Lambert
  2. Adam Lallana
  3. Dejan Lovren
  4. Nathaniel Clyde

 

 

It's worked out well for them so far  :Troll_Face:

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Messi didn't sacrifice his childhood for goodness sake lol.

Barcelona came calling and got him out of Argentina while paying for his hefty medical bills so in effect they actually saved his childhood if anything.

That's a good point to be fair. I was thinking more about the elite athletes I've personally known (I've worked with the sports bodies of some Olympic sports). They commonly say they don't feel like they really had a childhood because they did nothing but train (not something all of them regret). I also had students who were musical prodigies, and they said the same thing.

I didn't think of what Messi's childhood would have been like if he hadn't joined Barcelona. Unlike the people I've known, Messi would have faced unresolved medical problems, and he also didn't feel the pressure from his parents that kids in expensive sports feel. One of my students was a gymnast, and her family spent a fortune on her gymnastics, and anytime she did badly, they guilted her about it.

Still, I'm not sure people are aware of the degree of vitriol Messi gets in Argentina. He's tried so hard to please a country that doesn't appreciate him yet feels he owes them something. No matter what he does, he gets criticism. I can understand why he's sick and tired of it.

The way Messi is treated in Argentina is worse than I think most people can believe. There is not a single player in England that even remotely compares.

Interestingly, his announcement has made some people more appreciative. For the first time, they're asking questions about what would drive him to feel this way, and they're also forced to think about what the team would be like without him.

Of course, there are those who hate him even more for it.

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So do you think that athlete would just quit and give up? Baring in mind they missed it 4 times, but they already had 10 gold medals?

In this case, Messi doesn't have the equivalent of 10 gold medals. And yes, many athletes do quit when they face the reality that it doesn't work out for everyone. Trust me, the athletes I've known who have been in parallel situations do not have a quitter mentality. They are some of the most determined and hard working people I've ever met.

What exactly does that his management skills etc have to do with Maradona as a player? Clutching at straws there or the handball.

My point is that Maradona is revered in Argentina in a way Messi is not largely due to the World Cup victory. That victory was brought about by cheating. If Messi had cheated, maybe he would have a World Cup title too.

My comment about him as a manager refers to the fact that he essentially squandered a chance for Argentina to win a World Cup. Messi and other players of his generation haven't had two real chances to win, they've only had one. You can't blame the players for not winning when it was impossible for them to win with such an incompetent manager. I can't think of a more incompetent manager.

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Looks like Giggs said no to Jose.

Wonder if its management he's after now?

Also I hear Arsenal are trying to get Wenger on a new deal to fend off the F.A! That's glorious for us but not so much for the goons

Edited by Chelsbear
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In this case, Messi doesn't have the equivalent of 10 gold medals. And yes, many athletes do quit when they face the reality that it doesn't work out for everyone. Trust me, the athletes I've known who have been in parallel situations do not have a quitter mentality. They are some of the most determined and hard working people I've ever met.

My point is that Maradona is revered in Argentina in a way Messi is not largely due to the World Cup victory. That victory was brought about by cheating. If Messi had cheated, maybe he would have a World Cup title too.

My comment about him as a manager refers to the fact that he essentially squandered a chance for Argentina to win a World Cup. Messi and other players of his generation haven't had two real chances to win, they've only had one. You can't blame the players for not winning when it was impossible for them to win with such an incompetent manager. I can't think of a more incompetent manager.

Well that would be completely distorting Messi's career, he has had unbelievable success in his career, so if you're comparing it to an athelete, they would also need to have had a massively successful career. Football medals = Gold Medals, Runners up medal = Silver medal, Balon D'or = world record etc.

 

For it to be a viable comparison you cannot take Messi's achievements away from the athlete.

 

But this is my point 'the reality it doesn't work out for everyone' how on earth is that comparable with Messi, his career most certainly has worked out for him.

 

I know it's unlikely to be popular,but the chances are Argentina would have won that game irrelevant of the hand ball.

 

Yeah we're gonna need to agree to disagree on this whole subject because I disagree they've not had a fair run in major tournaments, as you've said he's missed out in finals 4 times, if they were good enough to get there, then they had fair chances at winning these tournaments.

 

Anyway we are going in circles with this, you're welcome to believe Messi is justified in his retirement from international football, I personally don't.

 

I don't dislike the guy, I just think it seems from the outside a very petulant reaction.

Jezz and offside like this

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