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Barrettinator

Virgil Van Dijk

143 posts in this topic
2 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

The second Garry had a bad day he would be in, and deffo start next season, his ball playing greatly improves us, so many people don't get how key it is in this system,  hence pep even gave up heart for a sh*t keeper who can play out, let alone defenders, thats why he bought stones, zoumas a great CB love him - not a ball player,  Christensen, he is the future by the time he is starting Luiz will be towards the end of his career. 

Going into next season we will have 4 Ball playing Centre Backs (Luiz, Azpi, Ake, Chrsitensen) 3 of which have CL experience and 3 have BPL experience

2 of those are definitely as of this moment in time better than VVD and Christensen whilst not as physically imposing ATM is every bit on the ball as good VVD.

We will also have on the books two other very good centre backs in Zouma and Cahill one of which is potentially better than VVD and the other in my opinion is currently better than VVD. I would also like to add that while Cahill isn't the best on the ball, I seem to remember him being known as a ball playing CB when we signed him and is in comparison to a lot of CB in the league pretty good on the ball. 

Further to this I am not overly convinced that VVD is worth all the hype.
To me it seems similar to what happened with Stones 2 years ago, and the ability levels portrayed by the media seems a lot higher than what I have seen in the few full games I have watched of him. Either I have only seen games where he has played badly or he is not on the level the media has been portraying. He does however look very impressive when I have seen him in highlights on MOTD etc and whilst this is purely speculation I have attributed this, again similarly to Stones 2 years ago, that the highlights don't show up the faults to his game, (which in my limited viewing of him for a full 90 seem to be positioning and concentration). And whilst I can't claim that I have a better understanding or knowledge of the game the your average Joe I think we can all agree the the quality of punditry in the media isn't very high and a lot of punditry seems to be based purely on highlights and other peoples opinions.   

I am probably doing a massive disservice to VVD and he may well be a great CB and on par with Luiz and Azpi but even still as it stands CB is one of our stronger positions and signing him would not make a significant improvement to our team. We have more pressing areas of concern than CB and this transfer would be a luxury.

 

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2 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

Going into next season we will have 4 Ball playing Centre Backs (Luiz, Azpi, Ake, Chrsitensen) 3 of which have CL experience and 3 have BPL experience





 

Who on earth told you that? Did you see Luiz go ballistic at Tibo for making the same pass out right to Dave against tottenham and he got caught on the ball 3 times, I mean you just made it up that he is a ball playing defender, being able to pass and take a few steps forward isnt ball playing, being comfortable, creating a bit of space to pick out a pass, moving the ball quick, that isn't Dave, but he is so good it doesnt matter that he isnt great with teh ball if we have 2 ball playing CB's, Ake not nearly good enough yet and christensen not quite there for a club like chelsea, there is a reason we are trying to buy a CB, a ball playing one steps us up a notch, I dont get the bargain shopper, rationing fan, it's not our money and we are a club who wants to be European elite, we don't need to overly budget and we dont need to give every youth player a chance, in todays World you want to be a big club you must spend because the others are, can you see Barca, Real, Bayern, PSG, City starting Ake, seriously? Because thats who we are trying to be amongst...a lot of peoples ambitions arent in line with the clubs, I spoke about it before how we were at a crossroads whether to try and stay elete or become an Arsenal or Tottenham, there or there abouts do ok etc,  or if we want to go elite, it's clear Roman made his choice what way he wants to go, he doesnt want to own a steady club who brings through loads of youth and "makes do" he wants a club that buys top players and challenges for the CL and sells shirts, people need to get over this romantic youth idea and making do philosophy, it's not in our DNA, this isn't the 90's and Roman isn't hard up. All the big clubs buy in they never stop, they never say we are ok, they are always buying, look at city the squad is incredible, they are still on the hunt, always, you have to act within the environment and company we frequent, people cant expect a club like Chelsea to do things sensibly and on a budget because thats how they like to do their weekly shop, I hear this so much from some people, need to get up to speed with who we are and what we do. No one said waste money there is still FFP but a ball playing CB improves us, what we have no, if Dave was as you said a ball playing CB we wouldn't need anyone 2 at the back that can play out is good enough, as stands we only have one, not good enough, teams expose it.    

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Simply cant get my head around Andreas not ready yet VVD being the next coming of christ argument.

We are not talking about a 20/30mil fee. We are talking about breaking the bank and setting some world records fee.

Compared to that we have a young 20 year old CB already established in a CL team and probably one of the highest potentials ability-wise. Add to that Ake/zouma. In guidance of Luiz, azpi, GC and we are pretty much set.

60mil is no joke. Specially in the current context where we have the first teamers as well as the young upcoming brigade.

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It's not as if we're not being linked with him, I didn't make up the rumour, I would rather we get Verratti.

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1 hour ago, Ballack & Blu said:

It's not as if we're not being linked with him, I didn't make up the rumour, I would rather we get Verratti.

Going To be very tough to get him 

PSG I don't think will sell not for lower than 100 million at least 

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I also don't get the bargain shopper approach from supporters, but I also care less about the "ball-playing" defender, especially if it neglects their defensive capabilities.

VVD seems a good age with consistent form.  With potentially two outgoing CB's, a new defender and one of our loaned defenders seems like it works rather well.  

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Thought he was well out of position for spurs first goal against sthampton the other night.

Many of you guys under rate Cahill imo.

Anyway I think we need a second striker more. Ivan can easily cover in the back 3 this season but we if Cosa is injured and one of the three little guys is having a bad afternoon batman is our only option and that's not enough.

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2 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

@DonAntonio

An interesting article about Azpilicueta's ability on the ball:

http://www.squawka.com/news/cesar-azpilicueta/850321

Do you mean the completed passes stat, in that position you would expect it, lots of short easy passes, Luiz has the least passes out of the 3 CB's but who is the better ball player, it's not really indicative of anything, you saw the way he got hemmed in against the spuds and Luiz roaring at Tibo for making the same pass to him each time, his touch and release arent quick enough under pressure to allow the wing backs to push up it's not that he is crap at making simple passes, or that a RB/CB had to be Pirlo but in a system that you play out from the back where you need your wingbacks pushing forward it's very necessary. 

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9 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Do you mean the completed passes stat, in that position you would expect it, lots of short easy passes, Luiz has the least passes out of the 3 CB's but who is the better ball player, it's not really indicative of anything, you saw the way he got hemmed in against the spuds and Luiz roaring at Tibo for making the same pass to him each time, his touch and release arent quick enough under pressure to allow the wing backs to push up it's not that he is crap at making simple passes, or that a RB/CB had to be Pirlo but in a system that you play out from the back where you need your wingbacks pushing forward it's very necessary. 

Any defender in the world would struggle with the ball being passed to them when they already have a man on them as in the Tottenham game, using Pirlo as an example look at the game he had when Oscar was specifically marking him and you will see that no one will find this easy. But I would like to point out that this was Tottenhams downfall (and to a lesser extent Citys), they were pressing so hard and so high that it knackered them out and they were no where near as effective in the second half it was their specific game plan and it was designed to cause us problems.

Do you really think if we had played VVD or Luiz in that RCB position and gave them the ball with a player already on their back the outcome would have been any different and I am pretty sure it would evoke a similar reaction from Luiz.  

CB isn't a position we are in desperate need to improve and since January is a window of extortion unless a player is available at a realistic price, for instance if the rumours of VVDs release clause were true, then I think it best to wait until Summer when you can make a more considered recruitment.

I also think that because VVD is half decent on the ball, some major flaws are being overlook and I am unsure that he would make the step up to a top team as easily as you seem to think he will. A prime example Lovren, look great for Southampton went to Liverpool and looked terrible for his first season.  

 

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Really hope we DONT get him. We already have good future options at CB (Christensen, Zouma) and this guy seems overrated.

Would be funnier to watch Man sh*tty pay 50m+ for another CB and them turn out to be overrated trash as well

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On 30/12/2016 at 14:57, PedroMendez said:

Any defender in the world would struggle with the ball being passed to them when they already have a man on them as in the Tottenham game, 

 

Any player in the world would struggle if you launched cannon balls at them  but you would fancy messi more than mertesacker to last longer...silly argument, if a team can make something difficult you want the best in the business to counter it, it's like saying any team would struggle to score against JM's inter so don't bother fielding good forwards 

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azpi is not a good passer, been noticing him misplaced short passing quite a number of times this season and there were times where I think he should have passed forward into space but opted against it almost every times, I think he just doesn't have the vision..

 

 

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Just as well he is one of the best defenders in Europe then.I dont think we will go in for VVD at all.I think Conte will go for experience if he decides to bolster the defence and it will be a player he knows and trusts,and not in January.

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Had a shocker yesterday for Soton; if that's anything to go by, then a swift body swerve may be the answer.

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7 hours ago, bola said:

azpi is not a good passer, been noticing him misplaced short passing quite a number of times this season and there were times where I think he should have passed forward into space but opted against it almost every times, I think he just doesn't have the vision..

 

 

Yeh, Dave's pass to Diego against Palace was a shocker for sure:rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, 1905 said:

Had a shocker yesterday for Soton; if that's anything to go by, then a swift body swerve may be the answer.

Still among top 3 defenders last season and have been good this season as well, apart from a few matches. Cahill has had quite a few shockers himself, far more then VVD in 15/16 and 16/17 combined. I have no doubt he would be a good option to have, if Conte could fit him into our system, because he is stronger, faster and better in the air then all our defenders.

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3 hours ago, 1905 said:

Yeh, Dave's pass to Diego against Palace was a shocker for sure:rolleyes:

 

That one was a crossing, not a shot passing like I mentioned but yeah that cross is beautiful.. 1 isolate event is not enough to define him though but it doesn't matter for me, he's a defender, main priority is defending and he's 1 of the best, just like he's shown in the stoke game...

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On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 21:03, DonAntonio said:

Again and again I said it, we need a ball playing CB garry is not, he is terrible with teh ball at his feet, this system is thwarted when you have a high press team  and CB's who cant play out fast and accurately, it ruins your whole system,  wingbacks cant push up, you end up a 5 at the back  with 3 cb's marking a striker and the rest of teh team pinning you in like against Tottenham, we were very vulnerable against city we were clinical on the counted but they ripped us to pieces we were all over the place, 9 out of 10 KDB buries that chance and we were done, teams that put pressure and push stop our wingbacks have showed our frailties, a ball playing CB and a box to box CM beside kante make those problems go away, and although we arent conceding its for those reasons conte still wants a ball playing CB he knows its our weakness and although matic is playing well, it's why he wants a CM that will carry the ball out from defence and start teh attack, those 2 things make a world of difference in big games against good teams 

 

On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 21:33, Davey Baby said:

 

Cahill's not great on the ball.

Terrible? Gary Cahill might not be a Luiz or VDV on the ball but he is quite good with the ball. Better than a lot of PL defenders. He carries the ball out, does not panic in possession. I am quite surprised to see you say this. I remember when AVB joined and he said that was one of the main reason he liked Cahill, because of his technical qualities. He is definitely not terrible with the ball at his feet. You must be getting mixed up with Zouma because as much potential he has, this is his weakest point, his technical qualities. Gary Cahill is one of the most composed CB you will see with the ball at his feet.

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10 hours ago, bola said:

azpi is not a good passer, been noticing him misplaced short passing quite a number of times this season and there were times where I think he should have passed forward into space but opted against it almost every times, I think he just doesn't have the vision..

 

 

His passing accuracy is around 88-90% according to most sites, much better than vdv at around 85%. Stats eh....

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A few people discussing the possibility of Vvd replacing Dave or Cahill. Some people just cannot be satisfied. Dave has been nothing short of phenomonal this year, and Cahill has been mostly solid and a very good captain, buying a replacement for our already solid defence would not be wise. Bring Christensen and Ake back in the summer to replace Terry and Ivan and we are totally fine in this position. 

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1 hour ago, STATS said:

 

Terrible? Gary Cahill might not be a Luiz or VDV on the ball but he is quite good with the ball. Better than a lot of PL defenders. He carries the ball out, does not panic in possession. I am quite surprised to see you say this. I remember when AVB joined and he said that was one of the main reason he liked Cahill, because of his technical qualities. He is definitely not terrible with the ball at his feet. You must be getting mixed up with Zouma because as much potential he has, this is his weakest point, his technical qualities. Gary Cahill is one of the most composed CB you will see with the ball at his feet.

Press play in 10 seconds your argument is done, and he did it teh week before too 

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48 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Press play in 10 seconds your argument is done, and he did it teh week before too 

LOL, you pick out one game. Let's pick out and Luiz mistake against Cardiff few years back and assume he is not good on the ball then? It is pointless picking out 1 clip. Is Terry poor on the ball because he slipped against Arsenal few seasons ago when we lost 5-3? Overall Cahill is very good on the ball. You won't be able to pick up much games more where he has been sloppy in possession. Also the week before, against Swansea was a clear foul so other than that you can't prove to me he is terrible on the ball. That is one of his strengths mate.

 

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7 minutes ago, STATS said:

LOL, you pick out one game. Let's pick out and Luiz mistake against Cardiff few years back and assume he is not good on the ball then? It is pointless picking out 1 clip. Is Terry poor on the ball because he slipped against Arsenal few seasons ago when we lost 5-3? Overall Cahill is very good on the ball. You won't be able to pick up much games more where he has been sloppy in possession. Also the week before, against Swansea was a clear foul so other than that you can't prove to me he is terrible on the ball. That is one of his strengths mate.

 

He has made a catalogue of errors from not being comfortable on the ball under pressure, if you go to the beginning of the season everyone on here was putting him out for slaughter because of his mistakes,  I'm not here to slate the f**k out of GC, I like the guy but he is not good with the ball at his feet, fact, you saying he is one of the best shows you know pretty much nothing about football, we need a CB who is to improve us...no need to keep discussing. 

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