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ozboy

Renato sanches

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This guy was a standout at the last euros but hardly played for Bayern this season.

 

I think he's the kind of midfielder that would fit in at Chelsea. Read that juve were chasing him.

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I think he's a great player, had a very good Euro. Very dynamic, technique, quick player. Not sure Bayern will think about selling him, maybe a loan.

Didn't play that much this season because breaking into midfield like Vidal, Thiago and Alonso is difficult. 

Juventus are chasing him and Douglas Costa as well.

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Would we consider a cheeky loan? would get experience in a physical league so toughen him up and would be able to have Champions League footie too

 

Plus FM love us signing him so its destiny :)

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14 minutes ago, RMCM said:

Fair enough, from what I saw he was a great physical specimen with a lot of skill, for an 18 year old, and a lot of potential for growth into a top notch box-to-box midfielder

I'm replying here to continue a conversation which happened in the Corentin Tolisso thread.

I found this 'all touches' video. It is the first one I found when I searched YouTube for 'Renato Sanches - Euro 2016'. At least it looks like it's an all touches package although it's actually labelled, 'Individual Highlights.' Watching the video just now reminded me of watching the final and thinking when he was subbed, "Of course it should be him. Right decision coach."

 

Edited by OhForAGreavsie

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7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 

I'm replying here to continue a conversation which happened in the Corentin Tolisso thread.

I found this 'all touches' video. It is the first one I found when I searched YouTube for 'Renato Sanches - Euro 2016'. At least it looks like it's an all touches package although it's actually labelled, 'Individual Highlights.' Watching the video just now reminded me of watching the final and thinking when he was subbed, "Of course it should be him. Right decision coach."

 

Wow that video makes him look terrible!  I think he'll turn out to be a good player but may have been/is overhyped due to the goal he scored at Euros.

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3 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Wow that video makes him look terrible!  I think he'll turn out to be a good player but may have been/is overhyped due to the goal he scored at Euros.

Just watching that all touches video now. Will post that video soon. It's eleven and a half minutes long. I'm seven and a half minutes in and I've not seen anything impressive yet. Not one thing, and that includes the goal. At least the game vs France included a couple of actions which looked good to me. Not enough to rescue a poor display, but something to note at least. More on this and why I think he was over-hyped when I post the vid.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie
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Sanches vs Poland @ Euro 2016

I can honestly say that not a single thing Sanches is shown doing in this game is impressive in my opinion. Not even the goal. He hit it and it went in. Doesn't make him a good player. I've scored some scorchers in my time and I was no better than borderline OK, even at my very amateur level.

Young players, and sometimes new signings as well, tend to benefit from what I call the honeymoon effect. There is a period during which they get absolutely the maximum credit possible for anything they do well, while anything they do badly is either excused or ignored all together. It's what was happening with Charly Musonda at Betis at the back end of the season before last. I was watching him and posting that he was not playing well, barring one outstanding performance that is. In the meantime, I was reading posts telling me how brilliantly he was doing. I said he needed to up his game or he'd lose his place in the side. There were matches when Charly's only really effective contribution to Betis was diving to win free kicks.

Flash players like Sanches can catch the eye, but you still have to notice what they actually do.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie

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Youtube videos can make anyone look fantastic, and also make anyone look sh*te. I'm not discounting that he's probably been overhyped, but for his age to be a starter for the Portuguese team in a major tournament is a great achievement. Again, you say you looked at those videos and see nothing impressive, I watched them and saw plenty of impressive traits. We'll agree to disagree, I think Sanches, at the right price, would be a good signing for us. 

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2 hours ago, RMCM said:

Youtube videos can make anyone look fantastic, and also make anyone look sh*te. I'm not discounting that he's probably been overhyped, but for his age to be a starter for the Portuguese team in a major tournament is a great achievement. Again, you say you looked at those videos and see nothing impressive, I watched them and saw plenty of impressive traits. We'll agree to disagree, I think Sanches, at the right price, would be a good signing for us. 

Actually I think it's a myth that highlight videos can make anyone look good. What they can do is present a player at his best, but an ordinary player, even at his best, is still ordinary and that fact won't escape a weary eye. For example, I watched videos of Kennedy before he was signed. I posted to say that he should not be brought into our system because his technique was not good enough to earn a good transfer on, and definitely not of the right quality to hold down a place with Chelsea. Someone else felt I was talking nonsense and posted that the videos showed Kennedy to be technically outstanding. It doesn't really matter which of us was right. The point is, we both saw the same videos and felt we got the information we needed from them. It's not only what videos show. It's also how you look at them.

To be fair, I said I saw two impressive things. Both happened in the France game.

Overall, your points are more than fair enough however, given you see things differently to the way I do. I think we can shake hands on an honest disagreement over Sanches.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie
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5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Actually I think it's a myth that highlight videos can make anyone look good. What they can do is present a player at his best, but an ordinary player, even at his best, is still ordinary and that fact won't escape a weary eye. For example, I watched videos of Kennedy before he was signed. I posted to say that he should not be brought into our system because his technique was not good enough to earn a good transfer on, and definitely not of the right quality to hold down a place with Chelsea. Someone else felt I was talking nonsense and posted that the videos showed Kennedy to be technically outstanding. It doesn't really matter which of us was right. The point is, we both saw the same videos and felt we got the information we needed from them. It's not only what videos show. It's also how you look at them.

To be fair, I said I saw two impressive things. Both happened in the France game.

Overall, your points are more than fair enough however, given you see things differently to the way I do. I think we can shake hands on an honest disagreement over Sanches.

Tell that to the folks saying Naby Keita's YouTube videos do him no justice. Fella looks like another Chiek Tiote.

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I watched the last euros. Sanches stood out to the naked eye. Never heard of him before and I had to ask who he was coz he clearly made a difference to the Portugal team, which of course won the euros.

Bayern probably had no idea when they bought him. What would they know.

Whether he kicks on, so to speak, is another matter, but I liked him, strong, energetic, intelligent on and off the ball, cool under pressure.

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4 hours ago, ozboy said:

I watched the last euros. Sanches stood out to the naked eye. Never heard of him before and I had to ask who he was coz he clearly made a difference to the Portugal team, which of course won the euros

That is fair enough of course but to my eyes he did not.

4 hours ago, ozboy said:

Bayern probably had no idea when they bought him. What would they know

The appeal to authority is always tempting, especially when that authority supports the case you are making but such appeals are not automatically decisive in settling debates. Authority once held that the sun goes around the Earth which, to the naked eye, it does of course.

Bayern are a fantastic organisation, who almost always get things right. Almost is only almost however.

I don't want to fall out with anybody over this. Others, many others, think I'm wrong but Sanches did not impress me at the Euros.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie

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Bayern are a fantastic organisation, who almost always get things right. Almost is only almost however.
I don't want to fall out with anybody over this. Others, many others, think I'm wrong but Sanches did not impress me at the Euros.


Fair enough. A little academic at this point anyway. I've been wrong before. Not often but occasionally :-)

I do think the onus of showing he is not a good player is more on you though in the sense that

1 he was voted as young player of the tournament or some such
2 he is starting for Portugal current euro champs and
3 Bayern one of the half dozen strongest clubs in the world bought him.

That said it's great to have some alternative opinions. I guess we will know more next season as some of the older Bayern players fall away.

Ivanovic had to wait a complete season to get in the Chelsea team and he was older.

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18 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

That is fair enough of course but to my eyes he did not.

The appeal to authority is always tempting, especially when that authority supports the case you are making but such appeals are not automatically decisive in settling debates. Authority once held that the sun goes around the Earth which, to the naked eye, it does of course.

Bayern are a fantastic organisation, who almost always get things right. Almost is only almost however.

I don't want to fall out with anybody over this. Others, many others, think I'm wrong but Sanches did not impress me at the Euros.

Why are you insisting on following this tangent, he impressed everyone enough to win young player of the tournament, and impressed one of the best clubs in Europe enough to buy him, so all you're saying is you have a wildly opposing view to football exerts, how is that to your credit? That he can impress pundits, sports writers and Bayern scouts but not you..ok, and if they got it all wrong and you got it right, you should certainly be a football scout at the top level. 

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7 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

Why are you insisting on following this tangent, he impressed everyone enough to win young player of the tournament, and impressed one of the best clubs in Europe enough to buy him, so all you're saying is you have a wildly opposing view to football exerts, how is that to your credit? That he can impress pundits, sports writers and Bayern scouts but not you..ok, and if they got it all wrong and you got it right, you should certainly be a football scout at the top level. 

Becoming a scout is a not only a question of aptitude, it is also about opportunity. People's lives go in different directions. People including you I assume.

Sanches signed for Bayern before Euro 2016 so whatever impressed them to make their decision, it can't have been his performances there.

We have all seen panel voted award decisions with which we disagree. For example, the election of Lionel Messi as player of the tournament at Brazil '14 was widely ridiculed. Are you suggesting that we fans should simply defer to the opinions of 'experts'? I haven't checked your posts, but I'm willing to bet that this is not what you do.

In any case, Young Player of The Tournament is a 'relative' award. It may mean nothing more than that all other age qualified players were even worse. In fact what I think happened is that Sanches came into the tournament with a reputation, a big move in his pocket, scored a nice looking goal, and picked up some lazy votes.

I'm expressing my view in a place where football fans come to do just that. I hope you'll agree that I'm entitled to support my view when it's challenged, especially when that is done in a way which is clearly intended to belittle it. I hope too, you'll agree that this is not something I've attempted to do to you, or anyone else who has a different opinion to mine.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie
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5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

B

In any case, Young Player of The Tournament is a 'relative' award. It may mean nothing more than that all other age qualified players were even worse. 

Well, yes, obviously. Thats some mighty fine mental gymnastics.

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Well then Player of the Tournament could also be perceived as relative, surely? Along with Player of the Season, the Ballon D'or, the Academy Awards, the Nobel Prize, the Euro 2016 Cup itself? Portugal were the least sh*t team, so they won. Every award is relative, it seems pointless to discredit it for that. They should change the award to 'Least-sh*t Young Player of the Tournament' and 'Least poo player of the season'

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1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Just a statement of the truth. :)

So every "player of the year/tournamet/trophy/league" award is relative, and only given out because all other qualified players were worse. Why is this one different?

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