Mason Mount new deal

[Ukraine Bolt]

3 hours ago, Total-Football said:

I compared Mount to Lewis Baker last season (Where you came up with this ridiculous idea that their seasons were comparable in level of performance) where it is clear as day that Baker was not even in Mount's league in terms of level. It's ridiculous that you think that and quite frankly a bit of a joke the way you try and downplay another youth player to hype up your favourite. Loftus-Cheekis great, Mount is in my opinion better, you're just being disingenuous by doing the same sh*t you whine about other posters doing about Loftus-Cheek; severely downplaying the level of performance of Mount. 

You're wrong. I don't know if hindsight has made you think that his performance was great. It was average. He was decent sitting in DM with Mikel sitting next to him holding his hand. He played a classic Mikel performance (sitting keeping it simple) and was nothing if not unspectacular. In fact, he ended up being hooked off at 60 mins because Coutinho and Co. were starting to overrun him and he was getting dominated for the last five minutes of his performance. It wasn't this grand MotM game that you are embelishing on here. Just a decent debut against a good side with lots of promise for the future. 

Mount hasn't played in the cup. They got Knocked out before he could even play for them. A bit unfair to compare with Baker who had more minutes then him. Also, Mount was 18 when the season began. He also got MotM against Lazio (and an assist) who are a top four Italian side. 

You included Mount's cup games and not Baker's. Look at league goals alone and Baker still got more. 9 league goals to 10. 

Still hilarious that you tried to compare a season in Holland to a season in the Prem. Truly laughable. I shall sleep with a grin on my face tonight.

[Total-Football]

10 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You included Mount's cup games and not Baker's. Look at league goals alone and Baker still got more. 9 league goals to 10. 

Still hilarious that you tried to compare a season in Holland to a season in the Prem. Truly laughable. I shall sleep with a grin on my face tonight.

Mason Mount did not play any cup games this season. His goals are from this season. What's hilarious is you thinking Lewis Baker had a better season then Mount when I have showed you that statistically, Mount has been superior to him in every metric that a midfielder should be judged on. All you're doing is "Baker scored more goals (He didn't) so hahaha, better season, Mount's sh*t, Loftus-Cheek xxxxx" even though goals per 90 Mount is ahead of Baker. 

I never compared Mount this season to Loftus-Cheek this season. I put up Loftus-Cheek because I know that people would be interested in his stats and I wanted to fill out the table a bit more. I never made any comments about Mount this season and Loftus-Cheek this season. I don't know why you are so hung up over that. Although me doing so would be just as ridiculous as the claim that Loftus-Cheek got MotM against Liverpool on his debut. 

I did compare 18 year old Mount against 18 year old Loftus-Cheek. One has become the star player of a major league side (Eredivisie is a very good league no matter how much you try and downplay it, with a Europa League finalist last season) putting in MotM performances every game and improving with every game in his first season of mens football. The other was warming Chelsea's bench, getting less then 90 minutes a season against minnows and league 1/2 sides and looking inconsistent at best. It's clear that that Mount at this age is the better player. He is a De Bruyne clone and we will look like fools if we mess this up.

[big blue]

Bakers figures do not give you the full picture about his overall perfomances, as his numbers are heavily padded with his undoubted expertise from set pieces. 

I am a big fan of baker, but he hasn't been able to influence games in senior football, in the way he managed to with the youth teams. Mount has had by far the better time in vitesse, goals and assist don't always tell the true story. 

I don't want to take anything away from what baker acheived, as he was part of an historic cup win, but mount has been one of the best players in the league, and has also had some decent perfomances in Europe. 

I think momentum is key in terms of getting players to make the breakthrough, Mount has momentum at the moment, so I think he could make the break though with us next season if he was afforded opportunities. 

If those opportunities aren't going to be there, then he needs to out on loan at a higher level than vitesse, I think he would get games regularly a lower prem team. 

It's no surprise that Southgate sees him as a future England player, he really is an outstanding prospect. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

2 hours ago, Total-Football said:

Mason Mount did not play any cup games this season. His goals are from this season. What's hilarious is you thinking Lewis Baker had a better season then Mount when I have showed you that statistically, Mount has been superior to him in every metric that a midfielder should be judged on. All you're doing is "Baker scored more goals (He didn't) so hahaha, better season, Mount's sh*t, Loftus-Cheek xxxxx" even though goals per 90 Mount is ahead of Baker. 

I never compared Mount this season to Loftus-Cheek this season. I put up Loftus-Cheek because I know that people would be interested in his stats and I wanted to fill out the table a bit more. I never made any comments about Mount this season and Loftus-Cheek this season. I don't know why you are so hung up over that. Although me doing so would be just as ridiculous as the claim that Loftus-Cheek got MotM against Liverpool on his debut. 

I did compare 18 year old Mount against 18 year old Loftus-Cheek. One has become the star player of a major league side (Eredivisie is a very good league no matter how much you try and downplay it, with a Europa League finalist last season) putting in MotM performances every game and improving with every game in his first season of mens football. The other was warming Chelsea's bench, getting less then 90 minutes a season against minnows and league 1/2 sides and looking inconsistent at best. It's clear that that Mount at this age is the better player. He is a De Bruyne clone and we will look like fools if we mess this up.

Most of Mount's goals came in the Eredivisie European Playoffs. Baker didn't appear in them so unfair to include them if it is unfair to include Baker's cup games. You do realise i'm not saying Baker is/was better. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies of you and others saying Mount is Messi and better in every single regard when Baker scored more goals. Thus not 'superior in every metric'.

Putting RLC in was a stupid comparison. Complete different league. One is playing against the best players on the planet, the other is dribbling past 38 year old ex-farmers.

Eredivisie is absolute poverty, most Dutch people would even admit that. The major leagues would be any of the top 5 (Prem, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A and Bundesliga). Eredivisie is far far far below that. One of the best players in that league (Van Ginkel) couldn't even break into Stoke's side. Piazon tore that league apart and struggles to get into a Championship team. Matt Miazga captains a team over there.

This right here is why people laugh at our academy. A f**king De Bruyne clone. Got to be having a laugh. We big them all up no end and then wonder why we look daft when players struggle. Similar to when people were saying we should keep Tammy because of what he did in the Championship (equal if not higher standard than Vitesse) and has now struggled in the prem. 

 

[bisright1]

34 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Most of Mount's goals came in the Eredivisie European Playoffs. Baker didn't appear in them so unfair to include them if it is unfair to include Baker's cup games. You do realise i'm not saying Baker is/was better. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies of you and others saying Mount is Messi and better in every single regard when Baker scored more goals. Thus not 'superior in every metric'.

Putting RLC in was a stupid comparison. Complete different league. One is playing against the best players on the planet, the other is dribbling past 38 year old ex-farmers.

Eredivisie is absolute poverty, most Dutch people would even admit that. The major leagues would be any of the top 5 (Prem, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A and Bundesliga). Eredivisie is far far far below that. One of the best players in that league (Van Ginkel) couldn't even break into Stoke's side. Piazon tore that league apart and struggles to get into a Championship team. Matt Miazga captains a team over there.

This right here is why people laugh at our academy. A f**king De Bruyne clone. Got to be having a laugh. We big them all up no end and then wonder why we look daft when players struggle. Similar to when people were saying we should keep Tammy because of what he did in the Championship (equal if not higher standard than Vitesse) and has now struggled in the prem. 

 

So angry 

No one said mount is a Messi

No one directly compared him to today's older most established RLC rather than just as a token stat comparison 

Mount is a good player, he needs a pre season with us and either he can play in Europa league (he's already done that, and done that well with vitesse) or he can go to a prem club. 

Stop bashing our young players and the fans who like them.

Great players get their chance at some stage, they don't steadily climb from crap league, to slightly less crap league, to good league, to great league, to Chelsea. 

Incidentally, mount is in a position we need good players in. Fabregas is getting on, bakayoko is crap and Barkley is injury prone. He's potentially the best option we have next season as a bench player as we will probably have 3 in the middle next year!

Edited May 20, 2018 by benjsross

[Total-Football]

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Most of Mount's goals came in the Eredivisie European Playoffs. Baker didn't appear in them so unfair to include them if it is unfair to include Baker's cup games. You do realise i'm not saying Baker is/was better. I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies of you and others saying Mount is Messi and better in every single regard when Baker scored more goals. Thus not 'superior in every metric'.

Putting RLC in was a stupid comparison. Complete different league. One is playing against the best players on the planet, the other is dribbling past 38 year old ex-farmers.

Eredivisie is absolute poverty, most Dutch people would even admit that. The major leagues would be any of the top 5 (Prem, La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A and Bundesliga). Eredivisie is far far far below that. One of the best players in that league (Van Ginkel) couldn't even break into Stoke's side. Piazon tore that league apart and struggles to get into a Championship team. Matt Miazga captains a team over there.

This right here is why people laugh at our academy. A f**king De Bruyne clone. Got to be having a laugh. We big them all up no end and then wonder why we look daft when players struggle. Similar to when people were saying we should keep Tammy because of what he did in the Championship (equal if not higher standard than Vitesse) and has now struggled in the prem. 

 

Never compared him to Messi. His goalscoring is better then Bakers. He averages more goals per 90 this season then Baker last season. That's not including the play off goals. The stats I posted only counted regular league games. 

As was pointed out, it was a token comparison because you constantly compare 21 year old Loftus-Cheek to 18 year old Mount. It's dumb and a waste of time. I never made any dumb co.prisons like that until you decided to.

The Dutch league is a level below the top league's but still as good as you can find outside the top 4/5 league's. The MVG point is dumb. A young player failing in one league and doing well in another is not an indicator of the level of the two league's. Many players have failed in one top league and then gone on to perform at a very high level in an even better league. Stating differently would be disingenuous once again.

Pianos never tore it apart and Matt Miazga is average to good in the league. Need I remind you that Suarez came from that league.

At the age of 18, he is playing at a similar level of performance as De Bruyne and is showing the same rapid curve of improvement. He also has a very similar style to De Bruyne and plays in the same role/position. 18 year old De Bruyne was in the Belgian league performing as a star man for his team. It was obvious he would become a top player and it's obvious Mount is on his way to being a top player. Very similar players from what I have seen of the two. 

People actually laughable at our academy because of people like you. They laugh at our clubs constant screwing up of the beSt academy in Europe because of the same attitude you have towards our youth players. 

I never argued Mount should be playing next season for us, I'm arguing against your ridiculous notion that he will never be good enough for Chelsea. I know why you argue it, because his development risks Loftus-Cheek spot in the team, the golden egg who you have put in your basket. Funnily enough, the same sh*t you throw at Mount can be thrown at Loftus-Cheek; neither this season have shown the level of performance to be a starter for a top European team (Although both have shown potential to be) and the stats I posted above shows that fact quite clearly, Loftus-Cheek this season has only shown potential to reach the top level, but arguments can be made that this is his best and he won't ever reach the level required to play for us. 

P.S. I never rated Abraham. Always thought he was a donkey who only scored tap ins.

[Ukraine Bolt]

1 hour ago, benjsross said:

So angry 

No one said mount is a Messi

No one directly compared him to today's older most established RLC rather than just as a token stat comparison 

Mount is a good player, he needs a pre season with us and either he can play in Europa league (he's already done that, and done that well with vitesse) or he can go to a prem club. 

Stop bashing our young players and the fans who like them.

Great players get their chance at some stage, they don't steadily climb from crap league, to slightly less crap league, to good league, to great league, to Chelsea. 

Incidentally, mount is in a position we need good players in. Fabregas is getting on, bakayoko is crap and Barkley is injury prone. He's potentially the best option we have next season as a bench player as we will probably have 3 in the middle next year!

No anger here. Why would i get angry over something that doesn't affect my life.

A stat comparison is literally comparing them. 

I'm not bashing youth but i shall bash fans that get carried away from one good season in a sh*t league once again. Happens too many times.

We need world class players next year, not potential. Midfield is weak, we don't need to make i weaker.

[Ukraine Bolt]

30 minutes ago, Total-Football said:

Never compared him to Messi. I was exaggerating how you big him up.  His goalscoring is better then Bakers. He averages more goals per 90 this season then Baker last season. That's not including the play off goals. The stats I posted only counted regular league games. Well no because Baker scored more in the league. 

As was pointed out, it was a token comparison because you constantly compare 21 year old Loftus-Cheek to 18 year old Mount. It's dumb and a waste of time. I never made any dumb co.prisons like that until you decided to. RLC had made his Chelsea debut at Mount's age. Why hasn't Mount if our midfield is much worse now and Mount is so much better?

The Dutch league is a level below the top league's but still as good as you can find outside the top 4/5 league's. Farmers league. The MVG point is dumb. A young player failing in one league and doing well in another is not an indicator of the level of the two league's. Many players have failed in one top league and then gone on to perform at a very high level in an even better league. Stating differently would be disingenuous once again. Its a valid point. More often than not you'll perform better in worse leagues. Not rocket science. 

Pianos never tore it apart Piazon got 11 goals before Christmas in the Eredivise. How is that not tearing it apart? Once again more goals than Mount. and Matt Miazga is average to good in the league. Shows how poor the league is when he's captaining a team then. Need I remind you that Suarez came from that league. So did Kezman. 

At the age of 18, he is playing at a similar level of performance as De Bruyne and is showing the same rapid curve of improvement. He also has a very similar style to De Bruyne and plays in the same role/position. 18 year old De Bruyne was in the Belgian league performing as a star man for his team. It was obvious he would become a top player and it's obvious Mount is on his way to being a top player. Very similar players from what I have seen of the two. Can't argue that he may be of the same mould but there is no way saying he's going on the same path from one season. I'll happily eat my words if he's half the player of KDB in 3 years. Could just be another Bebe when he was supposed to be of the Ronaldo mould at a young age.

People actually laughable at our academy because of people like you. They laugh at our clubs constant screwing up of the beSt academy in Europe because of the same attitude you have towards our youth players. No they laugh because we say Kakuta, McEachran, Solanke etc. are all the next Pele. 

I never argued Mount should be playing next season for us, I'm arguing against your ridiculous notion that he will never be good enough for Chelsea. Not said he won't be good enough for Chelsea in the future. Just that he shouldn't be in contention next year. I know why you argue it, because his development risks Loftus-Cheek spot in the team, the golden egg who you have put in your basket. Funnily enough, the same sh*t you throw at Mount can be thrown at Loftus-Cheek; neither this season have shown the level of performance to be a starter for a top European team (Although both have shown potential to be) and the stats I posted above shows that fact quite clearly, Loftus-Cheek this season has only shown potential to reach the top level, but arguments can be made that this is his best and he won't ever reach the level required to play for us. RLC has the ability to run through a team with the ball comparable only to prime YTaya. Mount wishes he could have that.

P.S. I never rated Abraham. Always thought he was a donkey who only scored tap ins. Yeah nothing more than a poacher. 

 

[Total-Football]

34 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

 

So not Messi, you were wrong, leads me to believe most of what you say is exaggerated and disingenuous. 

Charlie Adams has a higher goal tally across his career then Lampards highest goalscoring season. Charlie Adams must be a better goalscorer then Lampard. That's how dumb your logic is. It's simple, Baker played more minutes and thus scored more goals. Compare goals to minutes and Mount is superior. Also, if goals is your indicator of a great season Loftus-Cheek is sh*t by your own reasoning. We can't play sh*t players who don't score goals because apparently scoring goals is the only indicator of a midfieldership performance levels. At least that your sole reasoning for why you think Baker played as well as Mount.

Mount went on loan instead of playing for Chelsea. If he stayed he would've had a few games for us much thesame way Ampadu got games this season. Another disingenuous argument.

Another exaggeration. If it's such a farmers league why have some of the best players in the world recently come from that league?

Disingenuous again. Piazon scored 11 goals in 31 games. You're also comparing a forward to a midfielder for goals scored. Another thing, goals are not a indicator of performance level. By your judgement, Aspa's is better then Iniesta.

I can make that prediction based upon what I have seen of the two. If Mount continues developing the way he has this season then he will be as good as De Bruyne. If he stalls for whatever reason (Which is also possible) then he may not but at his current trajectory I would say he is on his way to that level. A loan in a tougher league (Bundesliga preferably) is for the best unless we offer him a significant subs role next season to allow him to develop at the same rate as a loan. 

They laugh because we spend so much money and have so much youth success yet never see a return in the first team. Simple as that.

Never said he should. I do think he deserves a pretty season to show what he has got though. 

Adama Traore also has that ability, why not just buy him and stick him in midfield. Mount has other attributes that Loftus-Cheek would only dream of having.

[Ukraine Bolt]

16 hours ago, Total-Football said:

So not Messi, you were wrong, leads me to believe most of what you say is exaggerated and disingenuous. 

Charlie Adams has a higher goal tally across his career then Lampards highest goalscoring season. Charlie Adams must be a better goalscorer then Lampard. I'm comparing one season to another. This is a stupid point. That's how dumb your logic is. It's simple, Baker played more minutes and thus scored more goals. Compare goals to minutes and Mount is superior. Also, if goals is your indicator of a great season Loftus-Cheek is sh*t by your own reasoning. I brought up goals because of your ridiculous 'Mount is far superior in every metric' comment. Gave you actual evidence that wasn't true and you're emotional about it. We can't play sh*t players who don't score goals because apparently scoring goals is the only indicator of a midfieldership What does this word even mean. performance levels. At least that your sole reasoning for why you think Baker played as well as Mount.

Mount went on loan instead of playing for Chelsea. If he stayed he would've had a few games for us much thesame way Ampadu got games this season. Another disingenuous argument. Ampadu is better than Mount. 

Another exaggeration. If it's such a farmers league why have some of the best players in the world recently come from that league? Just because 1% of the players in that league are good doesn't mean the other 99% aren't sh*te. Find me 1 player in that Vitesse team that could get close to starting for Chelsea. 

Disingenuous again. Piazon scored 11 goals in 31 games. You're also comparing a forward to a midfielder for goals scored. Another thing, goals are not a indicator of performance level. By your judgement, Aspa's is better then Iniesta. Piazon scored all 11 of those goals before Christmas. That certainly is tearing up the league, playing in attacking mid so not too different to Mount. 

I can make that prediction based upon what I have seen of the two. If Mount continues developing the way he has this season then he will be as good as De Bruyne. lol If he stalls for whatever reason (Which is also possible) then he may not but at his current trajectory I would say he is on his way to that level. A loan in a tougher league (Bundesliga preferably) is for the best unless we offer him a significant subs role next season to allow him to develop at the same rate as a loan. At least you agree he isn't good enough to play for us now and should go on loan. 

They laugh because we spend so much money and have so much youth success yet never see a return in the first team. Simple as that. Never see a return because most aren't good enough. Name a player from our youth system that we can honestly say is good enough to play for us. Someone made a post in another thread about how our academy produced every to be a 8/10 player and no 10/10 players. CHO looks the most likely to break that cycle though.

Never said he should. I do think he deserves a pretty season to show what he has got though. 

Adama Traore also has that ability, why not just buy him and stick him in midfield. Mount has other attributes that Loftus-Cheek would only dream of having. A.Traore doesn't have the eye for a pass like Loftus. Should have about 10 assists this season is he wasn't feeding Benteke most the year.

 

[MasonMountXI]

18 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

No anger here. Why would i get angry over something that doesn't affect my life.

A stat comparison is literally comparing them. 

I'm not bashing youth but i shall bash fans that get carried away from one good season in a sh*t league once again. Happens too many times.

We need world class players next year, not potential. Midfield is weak, we don't need to make i weaker.

Do you not think anybody in the academy can become world class?

[Ukraine Bolt]

1 hour ago, MasonMountXI said:

Do you not think anybody in the academy can become world class?

Of course. That can't happen sitting on our bench in the hope to play a Europa league game or a 5 minute cameo in the league though.

[MasonMountXI]

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Of course. That can't happen sitting on our bench in the hope to play a Europa league game or a 5 minute cameo in the league though.

So starting them is the best option then to get them to that level. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

2 minutes ago, MasonMountXI said:

So starting them is the best option then to get them to that level. 

Starting them at a team that suits their skill level. Yes. Ship them off to a lesser league for a couple of years.

[MasonMountXI]

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Starting them at a team that suits their skill level. Yes. Ship them off to a lesser league for a couple of years.

How many of the current world class players were loaned out? I can think of 1. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

30 minutes ago, MasonMountXI said:

How many of the current world class players were loaned out? I can think of 1. 

and how many of the world class players from an academy had to make it in the prem. Messi could be played against anyone but Real Madrid and Barca would still comfortably walk the game. Ronaldo was playing in the Portugese league against part time footballers. Ibra was playing in the Allsvenskan. Can't think of a single world class player to come through an English academy and get regular first team football in the past 10 years. Over this past decade the Prem has got too competitive to play a weakness (we've watched Baka all season). 

 

[MasonMountXI]

5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

and how many of the world class players from an academy had to make it in the prem. Messi could be played against anyone but Real Madrid and Barca would still comfortably walk the game. Ronaldo was playing in the Portugese league against part time footballers. Ibra was playing in the Allsvenskan. Can't think of a single world class player to come through an English academy and get regular first team football in the past 10 years. Over this past decade the Prem has got too competitive to play a weakness (we've watched Baka all season). 

 

We will always agree to disagree on this. Rashford, I know isn't world class but was able to score against Arsenal and City after being given his debut opportunity and didn't get loaned out. United even contemplated getting rid of him prior to it. Sometimes players just need a chance .  

[Ukraine Bolt]

1 hour ago, MasonMountXI said:

We will always agree to disagree on this. Rashford, I know isn't world class but was able to score against Arsenal and City after being given his debut opportunity and didn't get loaned out. United even contemplated getting rid of him prior to it. Sometimes players just need a chance .  

I'd say there are 1000 example of it not working to every Rashford.

[MasonMountXI]

44 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd say there are 1000 example of it not working to every Rashford.

I'd say your maths isn't very good. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

3 hours ago, MasonMountXI said:

I'd say your maths isn't very good. 

Got any evidence to show otherwise? 

[CFCholland]

This has become such an awful thread to read. I'm sure we all want him to succeed. Some people think he's further along in his development than others. What are you two really arguing about? You're just nitpicking each other's posts.

I'm not trying to police the tread or anything, but this really is going nowhere.

[Valerie]

7 hours ago, CFCholland said:

This has become such an awful thread to read. I'm sure we all want him to succeed. Some people think he's further along in his development than others. What are you two really arguing about? You're just nitpicking each other's posts.

I'm not trying to police the tread or anything, but this really is going nowhere.

Hear hear. This has become very tedious.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Valerie

[MasonMountXI]

8 hours ago, CFCholland said:

This has become such an awful thread to read. I'm sure we all want him to succeed. Some people think he's further along in his development than others. What are you two really arguing about? You're just nitpicking each other's posts.

I'm not trying to police the tread or anything, but this really is going nowhere.

Thanks for your vital input. 

[Old Shaggy]

I agree. Neither of you two have any input to where Mount is going to ply his trade next season, neither do either of you know what the clubs plans are for him. So if you want to carry on this tedious discussion, please do it through PMs, or maybe twitter or something!

[yorkleyblue]

3 hours ago, MasonMountXI said:

Thanks for your vital input. 

It takes quite some lack of self-awareness to join a forum and alienate quite so many people as you have in such a short space of time.  Member for 6 whole days already.  Can't see that lasting for  much longer if you carry on like that.