GIVE MORRIS A CHANCE?

[yorkleyblue]

And I agree with a lot of that, @Davey Baby, he is a very good lower level manager, works wonders with very little in the third division, does well with more money in the second division, and then has found his level in the first division,  which is bottom half.

You were soaring the heights of lyricism,almost teeteriing on the edge of hyperbole  in support of your "young lad who deserves his chance", and almost Pinteresque in your description of the type of manager that you don't want. 

You came very close to convincing me that we really do need a lower-level YTS trainee manager, and that the entire fan base would be happy having several years of wandering round the league in positions 9 to 16.

And then you pulled out your shotgun, had a look around for a sensible target and immediately saw your right foot, encased in a lovely faux-velvet Blue Harbour moccasin, and let fly with both barrels by comparing this teenage ingenue to the master of the 4th place cup and the king of the perennial bottlers.

Complete the sentence again. "When people think Pochettino they think .......".  You know the answer is "........won f**k all, ever and came third in a two horse race"

You mention Wenger.   Enough said.

To  be honest, I don't know who our next (and next, and next, and next,......) manager should be, and some pre-pubescent, fresh-faced smiler might well be it, but I cannot, and will not, accept people telling me that he is a "great manger" when he has done nothing in the premier league to indicate that he has any qualification to  manage a team that aspires to feast at the top table of European football.

He may well have beaten us this year in one out of three attempts, but we also lost to Burnley, Palace, Pikies and Watford.  Why aren't people clamouring for a Dyck/Pulis/Pardew/Moyes triumvirate ( I know, whatever the umvirate for four is) management committee, I hear you say?

I'm glad you asked me that. I'll tell you why.  It's because we are having a sh*t season, and mid-to-lower table pub teams think they can (and have) taken advantage of our lack of form, spirit and concentration to convince themselves that they are, individually, the product of Cruyff shagging Maradonna behind the bins behind the Co-op, and that they have qualified to play for the 1970's Brazil side, not because of their country of birth,  but just because they are so f**king good.

When some ex-Stoke donkey is doing kick-ball turns and Shane f**king Long, of all people are turning it on with Fouette Pirouettes and we let them get away with it, then the world is a sadder and sorrier place.

We lost to Howe's Bournemouth ONCE in three matches this season.  When was the last time we lost to them before that?  I'll tell you - 2015, and we all know what that means.  The time before that?  1988. In the second division.

I understand the grief that we all feel about losing to the lower reaches of the scummier ends of east London, a place to stop for a piss on the way back from the North and the retirement centre of the UK, but we really MUSTN'T just go after a manager who gets his team to outplay us once.  I have exactly the same sneering contempt for that sort of attitude as I do for the posters in here who pop up with "WE MUST BUY a.n.other  journeyman player" who happens to score against us or has his single good game a decade when we are on the telly.

Edited April 16, 2018 by yorkleyblue

[yorkleyblue]

11 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

It's because we are having a sh*t season,

Actually, rewind that.  We are having a sh*t couple of months.  Up till January we were fine. Better than fine.   Would have been second if that had carried on.  No-one was going to catch City, the footballing wonder gods (apparently!) But we were cruising.  f**k knows why the wheels came off, but Eddie "The Magician" Howe isn't the mechanic we need.

[Zola]

12 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

Howe was made manager of Bournemouth when he had just turned 32, midway through the season, with Bournemouth 7 points from safety in League 2, and he managed to steer them to safety. Not bad for a young rookie.

 

The following season he steered them to promotion. Impressive, especially when you consider a transfer embargo had been imposed on the club throughout the season and the season before.

 

Pretty damn remarkable really.

 

Howe left Bournemouth midway through the following season, with his team lying 4th in League 1, despite having sold their top scorer from the previous season in the summer. Again, a pretty phenomenal achievement.

 

Burnley were lying 10th in the Championship when he joined them. They finished 8th that season, and 13th the following season.

 

He left Burnley a month or two into the following season, against the club's wishes, due to family reasons, his mum having passed away not long before, which may have had something to do with it. He re-joined Bournemouth who were still in League 1 but lay 16th in the table after 10 games. He immediately steered them to promotion to the Championship.

 

At this stage we can safely say he's a good manager.

 

The following season Bournemouth finished 10th in the Championship. He was named Manager of the Decade at the Football League Awards. No I've never heard of them either.

 

The following season he steered Bournemouth into the Premiership, where they've been for 3 years now. We shouldn't underestimate any of these achievements. They are truly spectacular. This is Bournemouth we're talking about. Tiny club, tiny resources, tiny ground, tiny gates.

 

They finished 16th in 15/16, 9th in 16/17, and are currently 11th in 17/18. He's 40.

 

Let me just repeat that for you. He's 40.

 

He's proven he can build teams, he's proven he can do it over a sustained period, he's proven he can get players to play above themselves, he's proven he can do it on a limited budget.

 

He's proven he can produce good footballing sides. Twice I've seen Bournemouth at the Bridge this season, twice they've played us off the park. They beat us 3-0 in the league but don't forget, although they lost in the last minute against us in the LC, they absolutely battered us in the second half of normal time.

 

He's no one-season wonder. He's learned his trade in the lower leagues, rising up through the leagues, and he's risen to the challenge every single time.

 

If anyone deserves a shot at a bigger club, he does. Bournemouth are a pure footballing side. They don't try and bully sides, they don't try and time waste, they don't harass referees. They've got where they are by playing good football. They are a credit to the PL. They don't bore the pants off everyone nor do they play kick and rush.

 

So here's the thing, I'm tired of narcisstic managers, I'm tired of egocentric managers, I'm tired of mercenary managers who are only looking out for themselves and who have a shelf life of maximum three years. Sorry but I'm f**king tired of them.

 

Look at Jose today, did anyone see his post-match interview, passing the buck, reminding us all countless times how many titles he's won, blaming the players and their poor attitude, saying they got carried away after last weekend. His multi-million pound side lost at home to the league's poorest side and he couldn't even accept a modicum of blame. His multi-million pound side play crap football and of course it's all everybody else's fault. Same with our manager. Passes the buck at every opportunity. Can't wait to get out, on to the next job for a multi-million pound deal. Throws his toys out of the pram if he doesn't get a superstar to fill every position. Sulks his way through an entire season. Is only concerned with his reputation and nothing else. Will happily throw his players under a bus.

 

Falling out with everybody, left right and centre.

 

Yes these managers might win you the title, because they're talented, because they're driven, because they're intense, but they haven't got the ability to do it over a sustained period of time, look at their records, it's three years maximum usually less, and I think the same is true of Guardiola. These are impact managers. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I want a builder. Somebody who's in it for the long haul, somebody who will nurture youth, somebody with an eye on the bigger picture.

 

Somebody who has a dream for Chelsea and it involves staying beyond three years.

 

Howe? His record compares favourably to Pochettino's before he went to Tottenham. More than favourably. Pochettino had done very little before he went to Tottenham. Pochettino has a true connection to Tottenham because they gave him a chance. Our appointments only have a true connection to their wallet, and to their reflection in the mirror.

 

Wenger spent ten years managing in France, where his only honours were a solitary title and a solitary cup. He was managing in Japan when Arsenal appointed him.

 

Howe's record compares favourably to Allegri's before he went to Milan, compares favourably to Conte's before he went to Juve, and on and on. There's no guarantee of course he can dine at the very top table and win titles but he's earned his chance to have a shot, and wouldn't it be nice to unearth a gem who becomes identifiable with Chelsea rather than hire another big name on huge wages who's only really here for the short-term, and for the money of course, and for the "experience".

 

Yes, if we hired Allegri or Jardim I'd be happy, because they're clearly good managers who tick a lot of boxes for me, far more than Enrique, the thought of whom just leaves me cold. However I'd also be delighted if we signed Howe, because we'd be going for promise over guarantees, and we'd be going for somebody who won't sell this club down the river and who will build for the future, and who might really build a relationship with the club, and a meaningful legacy. A risk perhaps but one I'd be very happy to take, because it would signal a change of direction for our club, a change of mindset, and possibly a more long-term strategy. 

 

When people think Pochettino they think Tottenham. When people think our managers they think any raft of clubs. None of our managers are particularly synonymous with Chelsea. Wouldn't it be nice if that changed? Wouldn't it be nice if we found our own man and took a punt on him and refused to sack him at the first hint of a crisis? No, it ain't going to happen, Eddie Howe is not going to be our next manager, we'll get somebody with better credentials, somebody more proven, somebody more expensive, but if it did happen, I wouldn't be complaining one bit, in fact I'd see it as a positive step, and it would make me feel a bit better about supporting Chelsea.

A great post Davey!

[Zola]

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I agree with a lot of that, @Davey Baby, he is a very good lower level manager, works wonders with very little in the third division, does well with more money in the second division, and then has found his level in the first division,  which is bottom half.

You were soaring the heights of lyricism,almost teeteriing on the edge of hyperbole  in support of your "young lad who deserves his chance", and almost Pinteresque in your description of the type of manager that you don't want. 

You came very close to convincing me that we really do need a lower-level YTS trainee manager, and that the entire fan base would be happy having several years of wandering round the league in positions 9 to 16.

And then you pulled out your shotgun, had a look around for a sensible target and immediately saw your right foot, encased in a lovely faux-velvet Blue Harbour moccasin, and let fly with both barrels by comparing this teenage ingenue to the master of the 4th place cup and the king of the perennial bottlers.

Complete the sentence again. "When people think Pochettino they think .......".  You know the answer is "........won f**k all, ever and came third in a two horse race"

You mention Wenger.   Enough said.

To  be honest, I don't know who our next (and next, and next, and next,......) manager should be, and some pre-pubescent, fresh-faced smiler might well be it, but I cannot, and will not, accept people telling me that he is a "great manger" when he has done nothing in the premier league to indicate that he has any qualification to  manage a team that aspires to feast at the top table of European football.

He may well have beaten us this year in one out of three attempts, but we also lost to Burnley, Palace, Pikies and Watford.  Why aren't people clamouring for a Dyck/Pulis/Pardew/Moyes triumvirate ( I know, whatever the umvirate for four is) management committee, I hear you say?

I'm glad you asked me that. I'll tell you why.  It's because we are having a sh*t season, and mid-to-lower table pub teams think they can (and have) taken advantage of our lack of form, spirit and concentration to convince themselves that they are, individually, the product of Cruyff shagging Maradonna behind the bins behind the Co-op, and that they have qualified to play for the 1970's Brazil side, not because of their country of birth,  but just because they are so f**king good.

When some ex-Stoke donkey is doing kick-ball turns and Shane f**king Long, of all people are turning it on with Fouette Pirouettes and we let them get away with it, then the world is a sadder and sorrier place.

We lost to Howe's Bournemouth ONCE in three matches this season.  When was the last time we lost to them before that?  I'll tell you - 2015, and we all know what that means.  The time before that?  1988. In the second division.

I understand the grief that we all feel about losing to the lower reaches of the scummier ends of east London, a place to stop for a piss on the way back from the North and the retirement centre of the UK, but we really MUSTN'T just go after a manager who gets his team to outplay us once.  I have exactly the same sneering contempt for that sort of attitude as I do for the posters in here who pop up with "WE MUST BUY a.n.other  journeyman player" who happens to score against us or has his single good game a decade when we are on the telly.

[Davey Baby]

2 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

And I agree with a lot of that, @Davey Baby, he is a very good lower level manager, works wonders with very little in the third division, does well with more money in the second division, and then has found his level in the first division,  which is bottom half.

You were soaring the heights of lyricism,almost teeteriing on the edge of hyperbole  in support of your "young lad who deserves his chance", and almost Pinteresque in your description of the type of manager that you don't want. 

You came very close to convincing me that we really do need a lower-level YTS trainee manager, and that the entire fan base would be happy having several years of wandering round the league in positions 9 to 16.

And then you pulled out your shotgun, had a look around for a sensible target and immediately saw your right foot, encased in a lovely faux-velvet Blue Harbour moccasin, and let fly with both barrels by comparing this teenage ingenue to the master of the 4th place cup and the king of the perennial bottlers.

Complete the sentence again. "When people think Pochettino they think .......".  You know the answer is "........won f**k all, ever and came third in a two horse race"

You mention Wenger.   Enough said.

To  be honest, I don't know who our next (and next, and next, and next,......) manager should be, and some pre-pubescent, fresh-faced smiler might well be it, but I cannot, and will not, accept people telling me that he is a "great manger" when he has done nothing in the premier league to indicate that he has any qualification to  manage a team that aspires to feast at the top table of European football.

He may well have beaten us this year in one out of three attempts, but we also lost to Burnley, Palace, Pikies and Watford.  Why aren't people clamouring for a Dyck/Pulis/Pardew/Moyes triumvirate ( I know, whatever the umvirate for four is) management committee, I hear you say?

I'm glad you asked me that. I'll tell you why.  It's because we are having a sh*t season, and mid-to-lower table pub teams think they can (and have) taken advantage of our lack of form, spirit and concentration to convince themselves that they are, individually, the product of Cruyff shagging Maradonna behind the bins behind the Co-op, and that they have qualified to play for the 1970's Brazil side, not because of their country of birth,  but just because they are so f**king good.

When some ex-Stoke donkey is doing kick-ball turns and Shane f**king Long, of all people are turning it on with Fouette Pirouettes and we let them get away with it, then the world is a sadder and sorrier place.

We lost to Howe's Bournemouth ONCE in three matches this season.  When was the last time we lost to them before that?  I'll tell you - 2015, and we all know what that means.  The time before that?  1988. In the second division.

I understand the grief that we all feel about losing to the lower reaches of the scummier ends of east London, a place to stop for a piss on the way back from the North and the retirement centre of the UK, but we really MUSTN'T just go after a manager who gets his team to outplay us once.  I have exactly the same sneering contempt for that sort of attitude as I do for the posters in here who pop up with "WE MUST BUY a.n.other  journeyman player" who happens to score against us or has his single good game a decade when we are on the telly.

 

A great post yorkley. Made me laugh out loud. I assume you're on drugs.

 

Few points. Pochettino still has a lot to prove, that's true, and I'm far from convinced he's up to the job, at least I hope he ain't, but he's building something at Spurs that may or may not eventually succeed, and I'd be happy if we showed similar patience with a progressive young manager that played good football and blooded kids. As I've said, Howe's record is far superior to Pochettino's pre-Tottenham, so I've no reason to assume he's a bottler until he actually proves it, the way Tottenham have done, up to now.

 

Wenger was an incredible manager for the first decade or so at Arsenal, so I'm not sure your point stands. Arsenal have stood by him too long but as there's no danger of that ever happening at Chelsea I don't think there's any point on dwelling on it.

 

Regarding Howe, you're right, not a top manager by any means but may turn into one. My point about Allegri, Wenger, Conte etc, is that you would probably have said the same things about them before they got their big gigs as you're saying about Howe, had you heard of them. Chances are Howe won't turn into a top manager but my point is he deserves his chance, because his record up to now is pretty damn exceptional. In 5 seasons he got Bournemouth from the bottom of League 2 into the Premiership, and mid table for the last 3 years on his resources isn't bad, in fact it's pretty damn impressive. Different kettle of fish at a top club of course and he may be a complete failure but I'd be happy if we gave him a shot, for reasons I gave previously. I'm not basing my opinion on the fact he's beaten us a couple of times over the last 3 years, although I must admit his sweet smile and fresh face are factors that work in his favour. This is a boy who clearly moisturises. He scrubs up well. I'm not saying I fancy him but I'm not saying I'd kick him out of bed either. Beggars can't be choosers and all that. 

 

As for your dream ticket of Dyche, Pulis, Pardew and Moyes, it's not a bad idea yorkley, by your standards, but in this age of FFP, I'm not sure we could afford the compensation. Only one of them is out of work, though quite why nobody has snapped up Pardew in the last few weeks is anyone's guess. He's probably waiting till after the WC when the Brazil job might become available.

 

No, nice idea yorkley, but I'd forget Pardew if I were you.

[zanwalk]

@Davey 8aby An excellent post regarding Eddie Howe. I don't quite see how he could achieve much more at Bournemouth, they are obviously not going to win the PL, and finishing much higher than mid table you would think would be exceptional on their budget, so how is he going to win anything unless he goes to a bigger club?

It may be that Chelsea would be too big a step for him to take, but I agree it would be brilliant to see a young British manager given a chance. Eddie is an intelligent man and a keen student of the game and I hope one of the bigger clubs in the PL gives him a chance. Perhaps Everton now that they have better financial backing?

[yorkleyblue]

2 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

A great post yorkley. Made me laugh out loud. I assume you're on drugs. - You know I am, I get my indigestion tablets and my viagra from you.

 

Few points. Pochettino still has a lot to prove, that's true, and I'm far from convinced he's up to the job, at least I hope he ain't, but he's building something at Spurs that may or may not eventually succeed, and I'd be happy if we showed similar patience with a progressive young manager that played good football and blooded kids. As I've said, Howe's record is far superior to Pochettino's pre-Tottenham, so I've no reason to assume he's a bottler until he actually proves it, the way Tottenham have done, up to now.

Pochettino might succeed (let's hope not, eh) or he might not.  Doesn't mean Howe would  succeed,  just because they both come off the south coast and aren't offensively ugly.    I'm on record in here and in The Mitre many time  as being convinced the club should give "the manager" a 5 year contract with a concrete guarantee that he (or she) wouldn't be sacked unless they got us relegated.  If that turned out to be your teenage pet, then I would say the same.  If Conte stays, that would also be my position.

 

Wenger was an incredible manager for the first decade or so at Arsenal, so I'm not sure your point stands. Arsenal have stood by him too long but as there's no danger of that ever happening at Chelsea I don't think there's any point on dwelling on it.

Yes, and I was quite big in the music industry in the early days of skiffle, doesn't mean I'm any good now, or should be considered a beacon of excellence for the contestants on "Britain's Got w**kers  (Saturday evening ITV)

 

Regarding Howe, you're right, not a top manager by any means but may turn into one. My point about Allegri, Wenger, Conte etc, is that you would probably have said the same things about them before they got their big gigs as you're saying about Howe, had you heard of them. Chances are Howe won't turn into a top manager but my point is he deserves his chance, because his record up to now is pretty damn exceptional. In 5 seasons he got Bournemouth from the bottom of League 2 into the Premiership, and mid table for the last 3 years on his resources isn't bad, in fact it's pretty damn impressive. Different kettle of fish at a top club of course and he may be a complete failure but I'd be happy if we gave him a shot, for reasons I gave previously. I'm not basing my opinion on the fact he's beaten us a couple of times over the last 3 years, although I must admit his sweet smile and fresh face are factors that work in his favour. This is a boy who clearly moisturises. He scrubs up well. I'm not saying I fancy him but I'm not saying I'd kick him out of bed either. Beggars can't be choosers and all that.

Does scrub up well, I'll  give you that.  My point wasn't that he is sh*te and will never get better, it was that, at this point, he's shown nothing to point to being of the level that we should  be aspiring to, and my original interjection was in response  to  some muppet saying "Howe is a great manager" or words to that effect, with nothing to back it up.  He MIGHT be a great manager one day, or he might be a managerial Della Bona or Kezman.

 

As for your dream ticket of Dyche, Pulis, Pardew and Moyes, it's not a bad idea yorkley, by your standards, but in this age of FFP, I'm not sure we could afford the compensation. Only one of them is out of work, though quite why nobody has snapped up Pardew in the last few weeks is anyone's guess. He's probably waiting till after the WC when the Brazil job might become available.

No, nice idea yorkley, but I'd forget Pardew if I were you.

Pardew is probably beyond our reach these days, you're right, so I'll put him on my back burner then, but I'll keep Pulis's number in my card-index for next season when your shiny new wonderboy has us in the relegation zone with 4 matches left and we've bought back Bobby Huth to play centre-forward.  Guaranteed to avoid relegation then.