56 replies to this topic

[G4 Squared]

Mick McCarthy to the Wolves' website on Michael Mancienne's debut for Wolves at the weekend (please forward to Big Phil)


And Mick revealed that he believes Mancienne is worth the wait having been on the Chelsea defender's trail for some 18 months before clinching the loan deal this week.

"I first tried to sign him maybe 18 months ago and he went to QPR," he said.

"I tried again last season and he went to QPR again!

"This season we've been looking and when we contacted him this time we got him.

"Chelsea had to get (Ricardo) Carvalho back first and once they did we were in.

"I'm delighted with him and I think he was terrific today.

"He's in there battered and bruised after Carl ran into him and then he got kicked after but he already knows what the Championship is all about."

And then to the BBC

"My two centre-backs, Richard Stearman and Michael Mancienne, were immense at the back."

[Chelsea FC Champions]

we should pair him with Alex/Ivanovic when carvalho and JT retire.

[blizeH]

Lol! JT isn't going to be retiring any time soon dude

Edit: Nor is Carvalho I hope!!

Edited by blizeH, 03 November 2008 - 09:31 AM.

[mad_mac]

That is the trouble, he is going to have a hell of a wait to break into our first team.  Best he could hope for is to be the 3rd choice if Ivanovic and Alex were to move on.  Although Alex looks pretty happy, and more than competent when called upon.  So immediately, I could only see Ivanovic moving on to try and get first team, and Michael coming back as 4th.  Trouble then is..... would be rather be 4th choice in the Chelsea side, or first time pick everytime for Wolves?

Scott

[Chelsea FC Champions]

or we could start a bit of rotation with the back four..

Bosingwa - Ivanovic
JT - Mancienne
Carvalho - Alex
A.Cole - Bridge

[byatt]

Mancienne was outstanding again today from what i've read, played a full 90 minutes for them and they won 2-0

[mad_mac]

Is he playing as CB or RB at wolves?  I know he is pretty versatile, and played at RB during his stint at QPR.  I say we keep Bosingwa, and let Paulo go.  Then bring in Mancienne as back up RB.

We also have Ivanovic (if he stays, although I fear he won't) who can play out there if needed, and Belletti, and Essien.  So we are more than covered should we need it.  However, I really doubt he'll make an appearance in a Chelsea shirt ever again

[Chelsea FC Champions]

he could also play as a Defensive-midfielder is think.

[mad_mac]

but we have Miniero, Mikel, Essien, and even Ivanovic who can play there ahead of him.  I think RB is at least an option

[G4 Squared]

mad_mac, on Nov 9 2008, 18:01 PM, said:

Is he playing as CB or RB at wolves?  I know he is pretty versatile, and played at RB during his stint at QPR.  I say we keep Bosingwa, and let Paulo go.  Then bring in Mancienne as back up RB.

He's playing in the middle. As I said in the match chat today, he's playing first team football in a team riding high in the Championship compared to fighting relegation as he was last season, if he gets regular football at this level he just might realize his future is away from the Bridge especially as Mourinho, Grant and Scolari  all failed to give lad his debut, which I see as a good reflection of our club. If I was Roman I would be livid to see a lad like this not get at least 10 minutes in games we are winning comfortably. Take today, Kalou gets injured Sinclair is on the bench who does he bring on Belletti. To waste time, what does he do takes off Deco who comes on Ferrier. At two nil up he could have taken off Anelka and given Di Santo a run out for twenty minutes. I'm slowly joining the BlueBeard camp and regretting the day he joined Chelsea and to be honest I don't think he'll be staying long anyway.

[mad_mac]

No arguments from me Tim, I was saying something similar in the Football forum. Dkw said that the bringing on of Belletti was justified as it added strength to an under threat Mikel.

My argument was that he constantly brings on defenders (as seen by the bench's favour of 4 defenders everytime!), rather than giving a young fella a run out on the field with 20 minutes left and we are leading.  It's not just today either, he's rarely giving any youngsters a chance.

Now, I'm not saying we should have youth in the side at the expense of anyone, but seriously.  Kalou injured, and Deco playing crap, so we bring on Belletti and Paulo?  If I was Stoch, Mancienne, Sinclair, and even Di Sanot I'd be looking elsewhere, and quickly.  To just get a place on the bench time and time again is not good enough.  Imagine sitting on the bench, eager to prove your worth, feeling "ok, i'm on the bench, just give me a chance.  Great we are 2-0 up, surely I can make an impression.  Oh look, the boss is making signals that we are making a change, and Kalou looks to be struggling, this has to be my time!!!  F*ck it, there goes Paulo and Belletti on......what's wenger's number?"

[dkw]

mad_mac, on Nov 9 2008, 20:42 PM, said:

No arguments from me Tim, I was saying something similar in the Football forum. Dkw said that the bringing on of Belletti was justified as it added strength to an under threat Mikel.

My argument was that he constantly brings on defenders (as seen by the bench's favour of 4 defenders everytime!), rather than giving a young fella a run out on the field with 20 minutes left and we are leading.  It's not just today either, he's rarely giving any youngsters a chance.

Now, I'm not saying we should have youth in the side at the expense of anyone, but seriously.  Kalou injured, and Deco playing crap, so we bring on Belletti and Paulo?  If I was Stoch, Mancienne, Sinclair, and even Di Sanot I'd be looking elsewhere, and quickly.  To just get a place on the bench time and time again is not good enough.  Imagine sitting on the bench, eager to prove your worth, feeling "ok, i'm on the bench, just give me a chance.  Great we are 2-0 up, surely I can make an impression.  Oh look, the boss is making signals that we are making a change, and Kalou looks to be struggling, this has to be my time!!!  F*ck it, there goes Paulo and Belletti on......what's wenger's number?"

firstly, im wanting youth to progress as much as anyone, but not at the expense of victories. scholari hasnt been here long enough to know exactly what youth players he has and how progressed they are. can i ask if you thought this way when jose was here, who also never really blooded any young players either.

[G4 Squared]

dkw, on Nov 10 2008, 09:54 AM, said:

firstly, im wanting youth to progress as much as anyone, but not at the expense of victories. scholari hasnt been here long enough to know exactly what youth players he has and how progressed they are. can i ask if you thought this way when jose was here, who also never really blooded any young players either.

I can answer that question, we were the same group prattling on then as now. Mourinho took a lot of stick on here for not using youngsters. However, Scolari has gone on record about wanting to use youth, and not letting reputation get in the way of selection, etc. So far there's no proof of this. If I remember correctly I've seen him at one reserve game, perhaps he has Chelsea TV at home who knows, but a trip to Brentford now and again wouldn't hurt and would probably do wonders for the youngsters and Brendan Rodgers. Sadly we are piss poor when it come to giving our youngsters a chance. We miss out on the chance of letting our youngsters play with first team players that are returning from injury by continually letting them return to fitness in competitive matches instead of the reserves, which has shown to have a negative effect. Deco and Joe Cole have played the last few games only 80% fit (Joe's own admission) and I was surprised Drogba managed to tie his boot laces against Roma, he looked in so poor shape.

It hurts to concede we are a buying club, and have been for the last ten years and probably will be for the next ten.

[dkw]

but surely thats the same as pretty much every top team in europe tim other than arsenal, and its not exactly doing them any good at the moment. not many teams have youngsters coming through at the moment, certainly not liverpool, utd, madrid, ac milan, inter, barca etc... id love to see our first team in a couple of years have 3 or  4 youth products in it, but in the rarified atmosphere in which chelsea operate the pressure on results means youth players wont be thrown in, except at arsenal where wenger is allowed to do this regardless of results and trophys (though i dont think he`ll get away with it for much longer) as regards to not bringing players through over the last 10 years, thats simply down to the fact we havent had anyone good enough. the youth set up was rubbish before roman arrived, and its only the lat 2 or 3 years where its had any financial input and time spent on it. if they arent good enough, they wont play. and they werent good enough.

[Chippy]

Another snippet with the wise words of Mick Mcarthy..


Chelsea's Mancienne dubbed 'Beckenbauer' at Wolves
09.11.08 | tribalfootball.com
Chelsea defender Michael Mancienne has been dubbed 'Beckenbauer' by Wolves manager Mick McCarthy.

"The gaffer was having a bit of banter in the dressing room after the game saying he was like Beckenbauer!" said right-back Kevin Foley.

"Michael did really well. He's certainly a calming influence who gets in and nicks things and he's also strong in the air. He got man of the match - he has certainly fitted in straightaway."

Chris Iwelumo of Scotland fame also had kind words for the Chelsea man.

"He's a different class of player and we're delighted to have him on board," he added. "He's come from a quality club and he's had the right coaching and he showed that."

[G4 Squared]

Actually Man Utd have regularly played 4-5 youngsters in Carling cup games for many years. And Fergie is perhaps better at bringing on youngsters than Wenger. Btw who scored Utd's goal on Saturday, yes Raphael a youngster brought on to replace a tiring Neville. Anyway it's not a question of what everyone else is doing, it's a question of what we should be doing. And no one has ever said play a complete team of youngsters, we have said that when the win is in the bag, bring on the youngsters i.e. when we were 3-0 up against Pompy; when we were 3 -0 against Middlesbrough, when were 3-0 up against Sunderland and so on and so on. With nine regulars and two youngsters we should be able to defend a two or three goal lead or in fact increase it.

Actually we were pretty good at bringing youth along going back to pre-Bates hotel building days, check it out.

[dkw]

Quote

Actually we were pretty good at bringing youth along going back to pre-Bates hotel building days, check it out.

nice totally unwaranted dig there mate. thanks for that....

[loz]

The biggest concern for me isn't so much that we will miss out on the development of our current youth player (although that does bother me as well) but more the fact as long as we continue to ignore our younger players, even when there is a practically risk free opportunity to play them, then we will never be a club of choice for promising youngsters.  

I have said before that I don't think the Arsenal policy in the league cup is the right one, I think the right approach is probably half way between us and them (with a bit more weight towards them).  Once again tonight they have proven just how much talent they have in their youth team and in Wilshere, Ramsay and Vela I think they have three absolute stars in the making (in particular Wilshere and Ramsay).  I doubt Ramsay or Wilshere would have even considered joining us if it was us against Arsenal and I don't blame them in the slightest.  

To be honest the only youth players who would choose us over Arsenal or United would be one interested purely in money and that isn't the sort of youth player you necessarily want.

[mad_mac]

Agreed.

DKW, yes there have been a few of us shouting for the development of our youth team for quite sometime now.  Roman has invested a lot into the development of our Youth academy, and the hiring of Arnesen was a step in the right direction.  It has been said that we were hoping to blood in some youngsters for a while now.

The whole Jose v Scolari argument is a fair point, but let me respond; Jose never really seemed to say that he was going to play youngsters.  Scolari has said that he would, but as of yet he's not shown anything of the sort.  about 30 minutes combined for Sinclair and Di Santo, with Stoch one on the bench.  It wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't stated, publicly, that he was the manager to bring through the youth.

Also, a lot of Jose's games were ground out results with us winning 1-0 or 2-1 in tightly fought games.  Scolari has been 2-0, 3-0 and even 4-0 up, but has failed to bring on any youth player for a substantial period of time!  That is what is annoying the most.  Also, this year saw the introduction of the 7 sub rule, a blessing Jose never had.  Scolari could use 5 spots for regulars, and 2 for youth team players.  If we are struggling, the youngsters don't get a look in, and that is fair enough.  But, to have 2 youngsters on the bench, and have a substantial lead, and then bring on one of 4 defenders you have consistantly on the bench is just aggrivating.

Also, it's not as if we are calling for him to flood the field with youth players at the expense of regulars, it'd just be nice to see a couple given 20 minutes or so, in the place of one or two first teamers when we are ahead comfortably.  Also, you seem to have this conception that bringing on youth will ultimately lead to our losing the game?  "not at the expense of victories" you have said.  well, we don't want to lose either!

Ok Scolari hasn't had as much time to see his youngsters, but he's not going to see them by just consistantly filling the benches with 4 defenders, and then using them over any kid!

Scott

[Jimboola69]

I'd rather see him partnering Ivanovic for our LC tie this week.