LongtimerLurker

There's so much to unpick from this my key takeaways: Pochettino gets credit for getting the best out of Palmer Palmer is unreal Jackson is so technically sound he has a high ceiling When we play with confidence we're probably a top 4 quality team (but we only show this against the bigger teams) We need more experience the penalty situation demonstrating the lack of leaders and maturity Balance is everything we don't need Enzo, Gallagher and Caicedo at the same time it's too defensive we've looked better with 2/3 for the majority of games imo Silva and Chalobah look the best defensive pairing surprise surprise they're the two that have played the longest together Overall well done lads and gaffer! Hopefully we build on this Edit: Almost forgot the most important point. Playing with a proper 10 not an 8 in this system (4231) plays so much more to the squad's strengths

Forget the players, forget Pochettino it is so clear that these owners and board will continue to make mistakes because they're just out of their depth. It's only dawned on me at no point can I ever recall them ever talking about specifically what style of football or philosophy they want. Which shows why our approach to literally everything has been so scattergun. Possession based football, sure ok but what else? How do they want the team to play? Surely saying we want a young talented team doesn't equal a project. What do you want the young team to learn, to do, what's their identity? You get clips coming out from Pochettino's interview a while back speaking about how tactics and philosophy aren't as important. The main priority is as long as players do what the coach wants them to do. Isn't that literally philosophy and tactics Poch? What are we teaching these players? Imo the project should have been if we're selling all our stars to focus on youth then you look to intergrate the academy like Lampard 2020. Why did we invest so much across the last 20 years into its development under RA and for it to be recognised as one of the best in the world only to go out and buy young players who aren't proven and then use the academy to cover the cost. Who thought of this and believed it was a good idea. There's so many holes in this board's logic at this point, I'm close to checking out for the season and hoping next year will be better. Yet I'm scared that with the same people in charge we will just rinse and repeat. At this point with the big money spent I think we should generally question whether this is a money laundering operation, because you do not spend this much in such a short time and not so frivolously to the point that its waste. Who is being held accountable, what are the consequences for failure? So far Tuxhel and Potter losing their jobs. In my opinion Potter was a victim of the board and Tuchel well he hasn't been the same since 18 months ago but he didn't deserve what he got. I will die on the hill we would never finish below 6th with Tuchel this or last season.

Seems pretty simple to me top 6/Europa League football or the sack nothing else should save him. You could argue conference league and I won't lie that does intrigue me we're so bad that it's not a given we win that competition especially since its looking like we won't even get in. More positively though if we did play in it and win I believe that would make us the first team to win all European competitions and again we can say we've won it all, but no one else could.

Not what the team will be, but what I think it should be: Petrovic, Gusto, Chalobah, Disasi, Cucrella, Enzo, Gallagher, Mudyrk, Chuk, Palmer and Jackson. 4231 I personally feel there's never a point in having all 3 of our main starting CMs on the field if not for defensive solidity and balance. Lets face even then we still conceed way too many. We might as well play a dedicated CAM and commit to the out score the opposing team strategy we're already haphazardly trying.

Palmer the best attacker we signed since Hazard are you mad?! Makes you wonder how good Lavia might be if he stays fit. Joe shields should be in charge of recruitment. What a gem Palmer is.

Someone I'm curious about is Xavi, considering the circus at Barcelona and the lack of legitimate funding I think he did reasonable. I'm not saying he's necessarily my choice but I'm interested what his next career move will be. Pochettino is either the best we can do or the worst we can do depending on how you frame it. I would say he's the bottom of the barrel of the so called "elite manager" (this season has nearly put a nail in the coffin to any talk of him being truly elite). However if "project manager" is going to be the key phrases thrown around by clearlake and they refuse to bring us a coach with better credentials than Pochettino he may be our best short term option. Put it this way if we're not getting a coach who has multiple top 5 league wins, cup wins and UCL wins. Then perhaps Pochettino is our best bet, he does have a few things in his favour: Multiple seasons experience in the league A good track record in the Prem A good track record of developing young talent A "top 5 league win" when France was apparently a top 5 league Big player management experience Gets on with the board and players Has taken us to the finals and at the very minimum semi finals of both domestic cups

Not including injured players how many of our current starting 11 get into any of these sides? How many of these former players start for us? There's a certain calibre of player ans what these owners need to understand is seeing footballers purely through their age as an asset is detrimental to our clubs success. They need to understand when a world class player who is affordable, physically fit and also suits your style of player you go for them. I think we need a proper sporting director along with some additional technical directors and hire ups who are experienced at elite clubs and can effectively bring clearlakes misguided vision to life. Most importantly though the blending of experienced professionals and talented youngsters.

I feel both these posters are right, I think originally Pochettino wasn't too keen on him and wanted more experience. Ironically it's this specific type of signing clearlake are after young talent that can perform now. The problem is it is impossible to do this for a full XI let alone a squad like they expect. I think people truly underestimate the level players like Neymar and Hazard were at by the time they were 21. Young players are not as complete these days. The board think we can sign any talented 19 year old and they could turn into the next CR7. Again the reason why Cr7 at 19 was a good investment at £12.5m in 2002 and Hazard at £32m at the age of 21 in 2012 is because despite the relative high price at the time if we account for inflation this is still a reasonable market price for a talented young player. There was still the possibility to not only get value in terms of price but also the possibility to flip for a profit 3x-4x the original price. In CR7 case £80m, Hazard £130m. In fact even Barcelona despite not wanting to sell Neymar flipped €75m to €220m. Palmer at £40m represents a good deal, realistically he can go for £100m based off this season. He's performing at the highest possible level in terms of g/a. Pochettino might be doing something right with Palmer even if it's simply playing him. Some players don't need expert coaching they just need game time (Hazard). Mudyrk and Madueke have potential but imo they won't be as good as Palmer even with the additional game time. My fear is because Palmer worked out the board and ownership will feel vindicated in their strategy and continue. Whereas to everyone with eyes we can see it was more a fluke due to their scattergun approach. A real project like we did 10-12 years ago consisted of blending young talented players with proven winners (Lamps, Mata, Torres, Ivan, Cole, Ramires, Mikel, etc.). Then we had the crown jewel Hazard as the centre piece of the project. Make no mistake though Lukaku, Oscar, KDB, Salah were all high potential players we signed and failed to get the best out of. I feel like b/c of this we have a reputation for signing young talent and perhaps not getting the best out of them. Yes we had duds like Marko Marin but we spent like £20m on him so even if we overpaid it wasn't by a ridiculous amount. My point is, imagine if we had kept our skeleton from last season and replaced Havertz and Mount with Palmer, he would have solved most of our issues someone who creates and finishes. We don't need a team of Palmers just 2-3 with proven professionals and perhaps a couple elite players in their positions ideally specialists like goalkeeper and striker.

If we finish top 8, I will bite my tongue despite the poor season I will recognise the improvement and point to that as the minimum yard stick for progression. Klopp and Arteta finished 8th in their first season yes its way below our acceptable standard under Roman but those days are gone. However, there must be a change in the approach to recruitment. Experienced players must be chosen, why don't we follow the way the women's team is run. Why isn't Pochettino listened to when it matters. The board wanted experienced superstars like Ronaldo, Neymar, Felix (lesser so) in all cases the coach said no so they listened to them. Yet they won't bring in a handful of lesser elite names for experience to fill out the squad? Despite the coach who is the expert being the one asking for this? Where is the logic, the vision, the consistency? Nothing makes sense with this ownership. After 2 seasons of failure they must get this summer right. Firstly decide to stick or twist with Pochettino. If you stick give him the experienced players he needs to compete. What does it say about us that he could consistently get top 4 with Spurs but he can't do it with us? If we get in someone else, bring in a coach who is better than Pochettino I mean a big name someone who demands respect and their portfolio shows they get the results. Buy into their philosophy, supply them with the tools they need to succeed and let them do their job with less interference. How we can go from having Tuchel so involved in recruitment to having Potter and Pochettino having practically no say still boggles my mind. You want to give the guy you didn't hire (Tuchel) the tools to play his way but not the coaches you specifically hired (Potter & Poch). Make it make sense.....

Problem is mate what work did they do in the summer? We are left to wonder why such a big overhaul was really needed when after last season stability was surely the most important thing. Pulisic, RLC, Mount, Kovacic, Kanté, Azpilicueta, Ziyech, Lukaku, Aubameyang, Havertz, Koulibaly, Mendy, Hall, CHO to name the main outgoings. How can all of these players want to leave at the same time we're talking up to 12 starting players for any top 6-top 8 side in the league. Every single one of those improves our current squad and arguably all improve our current starting 11. £1bn spent and worst off, this is beyond negligent, I can't see how they're still in the job. Replacing Mendy (a former uefa best gk with Robert Sanchez Brighton's 3rd choice), and then allowing Kepa to leave just before the season starts. What could the logic be here? Selling Jorginho for £10m and replacing him with Enzo for £105m (Enzo is a good player and has high potential but is he even a £50m player if we're being honest we severely overpaid). Losing Kanté for free effectively and replacing him with £115m Caicedo who again has high potential but again is he even a £50m player. I talk a real £50m I'm talking pound for pound money's worth taking inflation into consideration. Both Jorginho and Kanté have looked good this season meanwhile we've missed their experience in midfield. Every season they played together along with Kova we were a top 4 side and made cup finals. Mudyrk and Madueke effectively Pulisic and Ziyech replacements again high potential but for a combined fee of over £100m this is insanity a waste of money and poor squad building. The list goes on and on as we go through the sales and the purchases. You do not spend £1bn and make a team worse it's beyond comprehension, if they wanted to go the youth player route to make money then they adapt our old model buy low sell high, how do you make money when you buy over market price by over double and your sporting performance declines. Where is the market to sell? You only lose money because the players want to leave you then sell for less then you paid for and find it harder to recruit better players due to poor sporting standing and performance. I point to this because its my area of expertise I did my Masters dissertation on the effective running of elite football clubs. More specifically it was a case study on the "big 6" and why there is a difference in sporting performance despite similar financial outlays amongst the 6 and I can say without a shadow of a doubt this is the worst run club in the world currently at least as far as so called elite clubs are concerned. I genuinely believe on the current trajectory we will no longer be recognised as a big team and could face years in the wilderness before the situation improves. I finish this with a simple thought. What exactly are Paul and Lawrence's instructions, what do the board tell them to do. Because it could be that none of this is their fault and they are merely following their orders to the letter. Or perhaps they have been given complete control and have destroyed this club from the inside with ineptitude.

Pochettino is just the fall guy at this point, for poor squad building. The only blame he takes aside from the coaching (which is still not good enough) is allowing it to happen. All the managers with a backbone (elite) were disregarded Enrique, Nagelsmann, Tuchel etc. Why? Because they wouldn't tolerate the board selling their best players and replacing them with inexperience. The top managers have some control over recruitment, yet we're led to believe Pochettino is an elite manager despite what he allowed them to do to this squad. The warning signs were there from how late Pochettino took over, they brought him after they shipped out (Pulisic, RLC, Mount, Kovacic, Kanté, Azpilicueta, Ziyech, Lukaku, Aubameyang, Havertz, Koulibaly, Mendy, Hall, CHO etc.) The list does still go on, look at the experience he was fine with leaving. Even worse he mentioned the board did a good job. They actually tried gaslighted us into believing the previous playing staff were at fault for last season (12th place). Not the owners sacking Tuchel (a world class coach), hiring a severe downgrade in Potter and then sacking him too and bringing in Lampard for what the vibes?! So we're left to guess that Poch didn't want to assess the squad (even if this was what they told him they would do no self respecting elite manager allows this level of overhaul without at least meeting with the squad first). What this tells me is the board is toxic and all of these players chose to jump ship before it capsized. This can be the only logical conclusion if we are to give Pochettino the benefit of the doubt and believe he would have preferred to keep these players as he has often lemented the lack of experience. Either way we probably won't ever know. But four things are certain the playing staff are not good enough and neither is the coaching staff. To add to this the board and the ownership are working against the club despite their best intentions they have effectively killed the competitiveness of the club for two seasons and most likely for the foreseeable future. I would argue simply replacing Pochettino now won't necessarily improve the situation, as we have been calling for months now the sporting directors must be held responsible along with the owners. I can't imagine any top coach succeeding under these circumstances and believe me when I say based off how this ownership and board operate if we do sack Pochettino the odds we get a manager "statistically" better is low, they won't go for an elite manager to correct their mistakes they will look at the Eddie Howe's of the world and other lesser coaches who will not rock the boat and buy into their misguided vision.

Jackson is the type of player imo that either needs to play wide or have another centeral striker next to him to really glourish. He's actually a good footballer but still very raw (the story of a lot of the players this new ownership brought in).

Last summer we had a genuine chance to fix the club. After one year of failure the owners had the chance to look at themselves and reflect maybe we don't know what we're doing and we should get in world class employees in the right departments to run the business for us. Both Naagelsman and Enrique were keen on the job despite our poor previous season. Both wanted to sign experience and more specifically quality players. Both were rumoured to want new starting wingers and a proper striker, but the owners were adamant Mudruk and Madeuek were the future and we didn't want to ruin their development. What development? Who are they learning from? Every world class team need world class players they don't just grow overnight. The naivety to believe we can compete in the short and long term without proven quality and experience is beyond negligent its arrogant. They know nothing about our sport and continue to get everything wrong, but hide behind terms like project and scapegoats like players and coaches. I said it before I will say it again, all you have to do is look at our women's team to see the difference. Compare them to the men's team. The women's team continues to sign proven players, they stuck with the world class manager and didn't uproot the culture of the team. Why start with the men's team for such radical change surely they should have bought their little French team and tried that as their special young obsession project and then brought the players through to the parent club. In football in my personal opinion success is fundamentally down to one thing efficency. Nothing we are doing from top to bottom is efficient. Poor sporting directors, poor players, poor manager and poor ownership. We have wasted £1bn in the least efficient fashion I have ever seen. If you were to give £1bn to almost any proper club with a structure you would see them rise to the top of the world game. Give it to a purely structured club and you will see them destabilise and plummet. Abramovich's last season we finished 3rd, Tuchel's last season (as short as it was) he had us in 6th (and ofc his last full season 3rd) after 4 games at the very minimum that is par for a top 6 club. This ownership have had us 12th after one season and 11th mid way through their second. Pochettino says it wasn't him who finished 12th last season but Chelsea fc. Well he has us in 11th right now so what improvements has he brought for the price of £10m per annum (his current wage). What are we doing efficiently right now can anybody say or see anything?

It's very simple these data analysis w**k*** we employ believe that we should be 5th not 10th or 11th based on the underlying statistics and metrics they judge football matches and league positions on. That by defention (keep in mind this factors in injuries) means Pochettino is underperforming even considering the extraneous factors. He is not good enough, just like Potter how can everyone else be the problem at the club except the owners and the sporting directors. They chose to run the club this way and all they want is a yes man. Potter and Pochettino are yes men, the latter famously. People used his PSG tenure as a stick to beat him and based on the evidence they were right. I can see now how he lost Ligue 1 with Messi, Neymar & Mbappe in his squad. He couldn't get more than 80 points with prime Son, Kane, Eriksen & Deli Ali to win the league vs Leicester. He bottled the UCL by starting a Harry Kane who hadn't played for 3-4 months. When it really counts he just doesn't know what to do. He's missprofiled Nkunku in my opinion since he's joined, why are you playing him as a lone striker? The only players that have improved are Gallagher and Palmer (who would probably look good in any team). Another false dawn with this hiring and another false prophet from this ownership. I hear Brighton's current coach being linked to the job and despite his obvious tactical astuteness I wouldn't want another Brighton employee I can't understand why these owners didn't just buy Brighton they're so obsessed it's ridiculous. Hire from world class clubs not clubs that are midtable and pushing to be in the top 8.

Was on the fence and hadn't voted until now. The eye test says not good enough when it really matters. I love being proven wrong, but with Xavi, Zidane, Flick, Tuchel, Conte & Mourinho all available from the summer it's hard to argue Pochettino is better than any of these. Would any of these even want to come here, with the current ownership probably not but we need a coach of this level. With fumbled Enrique and Nagelsmann when we should have been biting their hands off. The board don't know what they're doing so we should be trying to get in a top manager who does. Shame their egos won't allow this.