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Gol15

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Posts posted by Gol15

  1. 2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

    Cup games are a world of difference from League games. In cup games, you are very rarely playing against ultra defensive teams, especially in Europe. Even Atletico Madrid didn't play ultra defensive against us, and that is something they have a reputation of doing under Simeone. But in the league, we will always come up short with him as a regular because there are certain types of teams he will never be suited to playing against, today was the perfect example of that.

    With Jorginho we played Arsenal 8 times over the past 3 seasons (2018-2021), we have 3 wins, 4 loses and 1 draw.
    If we compare that amount of games prior to having Jorginho in our squad, going backwards from 2018-2016 we had 1 win, 4 losses, 3 draws.
    So the last 8 games without Jorginho even being a part of the squad we managed to beat Arsenal only 1 time, and since we have had Jorginho we managed to win against Arsenal 3 times so we have more wins against Arsenal while Jorginho has been our player in comparison to the same amount of games while he wasn't our player. So it looks to me like you just casually ignored a whole bunch of different factors here, after all the previous time we played Arsenal Jorginho didn't start the game and we were 2:0 down at half time already.

    I also don't understand this with the cup games being so much different from league games., we lost the FA Cup final against Arsenal, but previously to that we won the Europa League against them and in both games Jorginho played so if he isn't suited to play against them but at the same time it's so different in cup games how does it work then?

    confused 2 chainz GIF by MOST EXPENSIVEST

     

  2. 1 hour ago, Stas1 said:

    Jorginho completed on average 85.0% of his 749 completed passes under Lampard, and 59 of those passes were progressive passes, which are defined as a pass that travels 10+ yards towards the opponent’s goal. Jorginho averaged 3.47 progressive passes per game. He is the master of the sideways-backward passing bollox that stops our forward momentum and makes us dull as f**k. But we agree to disagree.

    Well how does this random theory contradict anything that I have said so far? Didn't I say that we tried to play without a player like Jorginho this season already and that it didn't work? What are you trying to tell me with the amount of completed passes that Jorginho made, that he doesn't pass forward but just backwards?

    Jorginho under Lampard last season was our top player when it came down to progressive passes - that means that nobody else passed the ball forward as much as he did so your theory about sideways-backward passing falls flat.

    It wouldn't be fair that you disagree with me only but you should disagree with the reality instead, this is from Jorginho's profile on FBref.com:

    J5.png.48c607d294fc514b8597cf6448b42390.png

    progpass1920.png.f83d32f93d1da95d59578bd99c08c830.png

     

  3. Just now, Stas1 said:

    That is the beauty of this forum that we all have different opinions and see things differently. I honestly do not see anything positive about Jorginho's play and I would be interested if you could point out some strong traits of the player.

    There was a time where I was naive and thought that if I explain my perspective and show a whole bunch of different angles and things that people would be open to see a different view about a player but that never really worked out well, I learned that people tend to hold their view regardless of what is being said.

    So I don't even want to go there, I'm just pointing out that we tried to play without the type of a player like Jorginho already this season, and it didn't work out. You can argue that there are better players out there but if Jorginho was really that average he wouldn't last for 3 full seasons here nor would he be our vice-captain nor would we ever finish top 4 nor would we ever reach the CL final...

  4. 1 minute ago, rocker_joker said:

    I feel like the line-up either needed Kante to start or come from the bench. He has been our best player recently driving us forward. Not having him available feels like cost us the game.  The going got tough today and we needed someone to drive it. 

    I take back what I said, I fully agree with @charierre that has already pointed out the problem with this game even before it started.

  5. 1 minute ago, Stas1 said:

    I firmly believe that Jorginho is a liability rather than an asset.  This season in 25 appearance he has 6 scored goals and 1 assist. Hardly anything special. His 89% of completed passes is simply due to his passing backwards and sideways, usually within 10 yards, and his mid-and long-range passes are awkward or inaccurate. His overall shooting accuracy is 43% and his cross accuracy is 29%.

    He dwells on the ball for too long, he does not see options upfront and his 50/50 battles more often lost than won. Just an average slow player with no imagination.

    Lampard tried without him and we all saw what happened. Jorginho was vital for our CL run this season in which we beat some of the biggest teams out there.

  6. 9 minutes ago, charierre said:

    Gol remember before the match I commented on you saying it’s not a must win game. This scenario is exactly why I did. The moment you start making unnecessary changes like your keeper along with six others it sends out a message this game isn’t as important. It shouldn’t do as all are professional players but you see it time and again, a drop in intensity. This result was on the horizon, we outthought ourselves and now have made the job far more difficult. Small details.

    You were right, you saw the danger and pretty much predicted the whole pattern here. This shows you know a lot about the game and about our team.

  7. 2 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

    I have always said that we will never challenge for the title with Jorginho as a regular starter. I still believe that. He isn't the one reason, our finishing is just as much of a reason, but he's a major reason why I think this way. I just feel that he is too limited. If you are going to win league titles as a regular starter for a team, then you need to be be capable of playing against multiple styles of football.

    Jorginho has been doing his role for 3 seasons, in all of those previous ones we finished in top 4 and are very close to do it for the 3rd time now. Sarri changed the way we played because he had Jorginho and we won Europa League and this season we are in the CL final with Jorginho being a vital part of our team. Pep wanted to sign Jorginho and he has been winning titles so he probably knows that he could do it with Jorginho, Italy haven't lost in a long time with Jorginho in the starting lineup. We couldn't really challenge for the title the season before Jorginho came, we finished 5th so there are many more factors involved than just 1 player that fans dislike because Sarri that bought him said that Juventus is a bigger team...

  8. 7 minutes ago, rocker_joker said:

    I'm guessing Tuchel now regrets not playing his best team today and  wrapping Top 4. He tried to rest players to protect them from injuries and now you have to play your best team next 4 games. His gamble hasn't paid off today.

    There was nothing wrong with out lineup part from the players not showing up and not doing the basics right. This team that started the game should have won it, we lost it due to our own mistakes.

  9. 10 minutes ago, JM7 said:

    The worst thing about this game wasn’t even the Jorginho back pass that led the goal. 
     

    I can think of 89 other minutes of shocking play.  

    1. Kai Havertz stealing the ball and having to beat just Leno and shooting it way over the bar.

    2. Jorginho getting an awkward pass from Zouma and not putting his head up to see that Kepa isn't on the goal line and passing it blindly.

    Those 2 moments lost us the game. 2 good players simply forgot the very basics of the game, this is unheard of. The rest of the game was just one of those days, an offside goal and clueless passing around the edge of the final third like we're playing Newcastle away or whatever but the worst thing is those two highlights, Kai miss and Jorginho's bad pass.

  10. 21 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

    One of his most frustrating traits seems to be having a run of good/great games then when we think he’s finally turned a corner he simply leaves his brain in the dressing room for a match. Such a frustrating player to try and like (unless you’re an arse lick like @Gol15 of course :wink:). 

    Sad. He has been a stable player for 3 seasons, I do call out when he doesn't do his role right and today was one of those days he cost us 3 points so now I'm not really an arse lick at all...

  11. 5 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

    I need everyone to be nice, we have a new fan tonight...my daughter Tara is sat watching football with me for the first time since she learnt to walk(away from me) hoping for a new fan to share my passion with me. Let's hope it's a good one tonight.

    I think it's only because I said she gets to stay up late tonight but I'll take it

    Your passion for socks, I see...

    Plotting The Simpsons GIF

  12. Just now, _Ilya_ said:

    In what way the is 3 CB system more likely to get figured out than the 2 CB system?

    My impression, for what it’s worth, is that we are over reliant on fast counters, so might at some point  need a plan B against deep defences. But I don’t see how this problem is solved by back 4.

     

    As for defensive flexibility - I feel we have it already: the WB vary between fairly defensive ones and wide forwards 🙂 depending on plan/strategy/requirements.

    Given enough time every tactic gets cracked down and while our current players fit in this system if we want to keep getting better it's almost a must to further invest in defense and to be able to have that flexibility and to change the formation. Right now it's a risk to play with 2 CBs without T.Silva, too many players rely on someone else to cover them so in a back 3 we rarely get punished when Rudiger goes forward for example and Azpilicueta can rely on his experience and not on his pace and that helps him a whole lot. But no system is perfect and to have real wingers or an extra man in the midfield well that would make us a more effective team in the long run specially against the smaller teams that we should be winning comfortably.

    If we keep playing the same thing, it's only a matter of time when the current effectiveness of this tactic stops working IMO. We do have good full backs that can offer the same quality in offense but we do lack a CB, specially once T.Silva leaves. I mean I can't see us challenging Man City for the PL title with Zouma, Rudiger and Christensen and this season for example Liverpool didn't have Van Dijk but when he comes back from injury Liverpool will automatically improve as well.

     

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