Celtic fans disrupt minute's silence

[BluenoseBear]

Edited November 8, 2009 by BluenoseBear

[dkw]

i was watching that on sky, utterly disgusting from complete scumbags.

[TheWestwayWonder]

What a joke. Incredibly crass behavior

[Ruh Buh Juh]

That's just scandalous. They should play behind closed doors after that, forever, it's just shocking.

I couldn't make out what they were singing however - what was it?

[charierre]

A total disgrace , if there are any decent Celtic fans they should name and shame the scum

[Gem]

I read before hand they'd ruin the minutes silence - and they did, but I don't understand why, any help?

PS - disgusting little swines.

[BlueBeard]

I read before hand they'd ruin the minutes silence - and they did, but I don't understand why, any help?

PS - disgusting little swines.

I'm guessing it's because the silence was in respect of British soldiers - a lot of Septic fans support the IRA, and fly the Irish tricolour at their games, and therefore see the British as the enemy.

That doesn't excuse their behaviour in any way, and it's not the first time they've done this - they are utter scum, and a bitter bunch of c*nts - f*ck 'em all!

[coco]

Willie Angus who signed for Celtic in 1911 and played for the team during seasons 1912-13 and 1913-14 became the first ever Scottish Territorial soldier to win the Victoria Cross.

Willie won his VC on June 12th, 1915 in Givenchy. He lost an eye, damaged a foot and was wounded 40 times in the process of successfully rescuing Lt James Martin, a fellow native of Willie's home town of Carluke who was lying injured a couple of feet away from the German front lines. A visit to the Willie Angus website gives the reader the full details of his deed and provides a unique insight into his truly amazing story. Needless to say Willie never played for Celtic again after this. There were other Celts who fought and unlike Willie never made it back to Blighty. Of the 908,371 British and Commonwealth soldiers killed during the Great 1914-18 War, 7 of them were on the books of Celtic.

Patrick Loz's Surname, Leigh Roose, Donnie McLeod, Archie McMillan, Robert Craig, John McLaughlin and Peter Johnstone they gave their lives in the bloodiest war of them all.

We pick up their story in 1916, 2 years into the Great War at the Battle of the Somme. July 1st 1916, the 1st day of the Somme is famous for being the blackest day in British military history where nearly 60,000 British casualties were sustained in the first hour and a half of the Battle. The battle raged on for five months from July 1st to November 25th during that time the British forces managed to advance no further than 12 kilometres sustaining 420,000 casualties, 2 of whom played for Celtic.

One of those players was the enigmatic Welsh International goalkeeper Leigh Roose who also held a Doctorate in Bacteriology, who played on loan to Celtic once in March 1910. Leigh joined the 9th Royal Fusiliers in 1914 and rose to the rank of Lance Corporal and won the Military Medal. Leigh died on 7th of October 1916, his Battalion was caught up in fierce fighting in the Battle for Montauban. At 1:45pm Leigh's regiment led the attack on enemy lines, encountering heavy machine gun fire on the way. On reaching the top of the nearby ridge, the attacking battalions were practically decimated by heavy shelling and machine gun fire. Like many attacking manoeuvres throughout the 1st World War, the objectives of this attack were never reached. That one day's attack highlighted the human tragedy that was the First World War, costing the lives of 25 men with an additional 165 missing presumed dead and 132 wounded for no material gain. As one of those 165 who is still 'missing' Leigh's name is inscribed on the massive Thiepval Memorial to his 72,000 other comrades who died in the Battle who also have no known grave.

The second Celtic player who lost his life on the Somme was Sergeant Patrick Loz's Surname whose playing career included spells at Fauldhouse Hibs, Heatherbell, Celtic, Broxburn and West Calder Swifts. Seargent Loz's Surname was with the 2nd Bn Royal Scots and died on Monday 13th November 1916. Patrick lies buried in Serre Rd No 2 Cemetery in the same cemetery as my Great Great Uncle Harold Bates, which is the largest cemetery on the Somme, containing 7,126 graves. Patrick's Regiment was involved in one of the most significant Battles of the Somme campaign - the 2nd Battle for the village of Serre. On the fateful day of Patrick's death, fog was thick as zero hour approached at 5am which signified the start of the 2nd ill-fated attack on Serre. The Regimental diary states that they were not as prepared as they might have been for the unexpected weather conditions, suggesting that tapes should have been laid in advance to guide Patrick's comrades to where the gaps were in the German barbed wire. One cannot begin to imagine what it must have been like for Patrick and his comrades waiting to go over the top at 5am into 'insufficient light' plus thick fog with no tapes to guide them to where the enemy was. If that was not bad enough the diary also informs us that not only had the German wire not been properly cut to the extent reported, but also the enemy lay in wait in 'greater numbers than expected'. One suspects that even if Black Adder's batman Baldrick had been in charge that day, his cunning plan would not have involved this suicide mission which resulted in 23 soldiers including Patrick being killed, 84 missing presumed dead and 177 wounded.

The following year of 1917 saw a further 4 Celtic players killed in action. Two players died within 6 days of each other and were both involved in the Battle of Arras, which claimed 139,867 British casualties.

Details of John McLaughlin's Celtic career are scant which suggests that he was probably on the books but never made a 1st team appearance. John was not only played with Celtic but also Mossend Hibs and Renton. John held the rank of Private in the 11th Battalion of the Highland Light Infantry (HLI) - and died of his wounds on Thursday 10th May 1917 and is buried in Etaples Military Cemetery. John was almost certainly a patient in one of the 15 military hospitals located in Etaples. John was probably injured on 23.4.17 which was the date of the last recorded heavy casualty list incurred by the 10/11th HLI at the Battle for Cavelry Farm at Monchy Le Preux just North of Arras.

Eleven days later the pre-war Celtic legend Peter Johnstone who played 223 times for the club and featured prominently in the 6 league titles in a row side also died in the Battle of Arras on Wednesday 16th May. Peter joined the 6th Battalion of the Seaforth Highlanders as a Private to get quicker into the action. Peter was involved in very heavy fighting to capture a nearby chemical works between May 15th-16th. The Regimental casualty list over the 2 day Battle, reads 43 killed, 26 missing presumed dead and 51 wounded. Sadly Peter's body was never recovered and his name is inscribed on the Arras Memorial to the Missing. Rumour of Peter's death swept throughout Glasgow and was sadly confirmed on June 6th.

The grim harvest that was 1917 also claimed Archie McMillan who made his first team debut as an outside left against Rangers in 1913. Between the 21st and 23rd of November, Private Archie McMillan and the rest of the 1st/7th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were involved in heavy fighting in the Battle of Cambrai, North of Arras. The Argyll's orders were to capture the village of Fontaine Notre-Dame which is located 2-3 miles outside Cambrai in Northern France. Archie's battalion was successful in capturing the village on the 23rd November 1917. Unfortunately Archie along with 8 of his other comrades died, a further 22 were missing presumed dead and 126 were wounded during the three-day battle. Archie is buried in Rocquigny-Equancort Rd British Cemetery, Manancourt.

The final casualty of 1917 was Donald McLeod who made 155 appearances as a full back for Celtic between 1902-08. Gunner McLeod was in the 466th Battery of the 65th Royal Field Artillery (RFA) and died from his wounds on Saturday 6.10.17. Donnie is buried in Dozinghem Military Cemetery in Poperinge, Belgium which was used as a Casualty Clearing Station until 1918 which suggests that Donnie was not killed in Battle but injured. Unfortunately due to scant regimental diary information, all we know of the whereabouts of Donnie was that he was in Belgium when he picked up his injury. Donnie most certainly would have been involved in the latter stages of the Battle of Passchendaele. Passchendaele was hell on earth - a mudbath where the Battlefield had been turned into a swamp by continuous rain and shelling. The conditions were so horrific that they prompted the Great War poet Siegfried Sassoon to write:

"...I died in Hell

(they called it Passchendaele) my wound was slight

and I was hobbling back; and then a shell

burst slick upon the duckboards; so I fell

into the bottomless mud, and lost the light"

Passchendaele lasted 3 months at a cost of over half a million lives of which 300,000 were British.

The final Celt to die in the Great War was Robert Craig who died on Friday 19th April 1918. Robert's Celtic career spanned between 1906-09 where he appeared 13 times as full-back. Robert was a Private in the 5th Battalion of the South Wales Borderers (SWB) and lies buried in Boulogne Eastern Cemetery which was used as a hospital cemetery. Robert was wounded on the 11th April as the German's re-captured the Belgian town of Messines, the scene of a British victory a year earlier. Ten SWB's died that day and Robert was one of 38 wounded who were taken to hospital.

[moi]

A very interesting extract, thank you. It appears one of Loz's ancestors was involved.

[coco]

Hmmm, the swear filter changed the surname of the soldier (Loz's surname) to "Loz's surname". :D

[loz]

It has nothing to do with them being Celtic fans - it is purely to do with the individuals being human vermin. There are no shortage of Celtic fans who honoured the silence. I was at a small local service today in my village with my 5 year old son to pay a little respect and to lay some wreaths of poppies round the war memorial and there were a number of people there who I know to be Celtic fans.

Because it happened in a footballt ground it is easy to pin it on the club as a whole but we should focus on the majority and not the minority. Remember Chelsea fans couldn't be trusted to respect the Hillsbrough minute silence - I thought that was pretty disgraceful but I wouldn';t pin it on all Chelsea fans.

[BlueBeard]

coco

I'd just like to point out that I said "a LOT of Septic fans", not ALL Septic fans. Try reading my post again.

If you don't believe me, that's fine - but I remember a lot of Septic fans in London during the 70's/80's had IRA tattoo's, and celebrated IRA bombings. That doesn't mean all Septic fans feel that way, I'm sure they don't, but I've seen these things first hand, as I'm sure many others have.

[Guest bigjockknew]

Its everything to do with them being Celtic fans. The majority of them boycotted the silence today and didn't come into the ground until after it, those who did come in sang an IRA song, Aiden McAnespie I believe and most of the others who did come in but didn't sign turned their backs on as some sort of silent protest.

Celtic FC don't allow servicemen into their ground in uniform, Celtic FC refuse to have a silence when they are at home on Remembrance Sunday - thats not a minority of mindless fans, thats the club. The guy who runs the local Celtic bus lost his son in Afghanistan a few weeks ago - what a kick in the teeth for him to see his club and a sizeable proportion of their supporters do this to his memory.

Its also to do with Sky turning the crowd volume down and not showing these fans for what they are - its a pity you have to rely on Al Jazeera for a credible and realistic broadcast of these scum behaving like this.

[loz]

There was about 7,000 at the Falkirk Celtic game today. Probably 2,000 were Celtic fans, maybe a little less. If half of them boycotted the silence that would make 1,000. In my opinion that makes 1,000 human vermin. However it is a tiny percentage of the total Celtic support and the entire Celtic support should not be castigated for that small percentage - just as the entire Rangers support should not be castigated for the behaviour of a small percentage of hooligans in their midst.

I respect your opinion Bigjock and are of course perfectly entitled to express it but as a Rangers fan you are not speaking from a position of total impartiality.

I, on the other hand, am - I have lived in the West of Scotland, on and off, for just under 25 years now so am not speaking of things I am not aware of. I have just as many friends and acquaintances who are Rangers fans as I do Celtic fans and, over the years, they have come from all walks of life, and I have seen nothing that suggests that the majority of Celtic fans would support the behaviour of the scum today. Equally I see nothing to suggest that the majority of Rangers fans support the scum we saw in Manchester. Yes I have met some in both camps that would defend it and both are as bad as each other.

Until we get away from this culture of blanket accusation (and we probably never will) the bigotry and the mindless hatred will continue.

On this day, of all days, we should applaud those that honour the memory of those who had died and suffered and we should condemn those that don't. It should never be cheapened to be a football or religious rivalry issue.

[BlueBeard]

As I stated before, this is hardly the first time that Septic fans have done this. I acknowledge that it wasn't the entire Septic support who did this, but there were enough to cause intense bad feeling (to put it mildly). If that had been at Ibrox, there would probably have been a very different outcome.

Football supporters as a rule are OK (apart from scousers, clearly), but you'll always get some c*nts who cause embarrassment. Having said that, no matter how much I hate Tottenham fans (and that's a hell of a lot, believe me), I had nothing but admiration for them for observing the silence for Matthew Harding just after he died. That surprised me no end, I would have put money on them disrupting that minute's silence, but I have a lot of respect to them for staying quiet.

[loz]

You are entirely right Bluebeard in that it was enough to cause intense bad feeling. As far as I am concerned just one person doing it is enough to cause intense bad feeling. it is a totally disgusting way to behave and also demonstrates a total ignorance to what the day is supposed to commemorate (though it shouldn't surprise anyone that people who are prepared to do this are ignorant).

What annoys me is the fact that people jump on this as an opportunity to show that a football club they hate is scum. We have Rangers fans registering on the forum tonight just to post the Youtube clip - it is pathetic and trivialises what is disgusting behaviour.

We may as well accept that we are all headhunters, that Rangers fans all support the UVF, that all Italy fans are members of the the National Front, all Turkish fans like stabbing people and Leyton Oridnet fans all own copies of Chas and Dave's, Snooker Loopy.

[BlueBeard]

We may as well accept that we are all headhunters, that Rangers fans all support the UVF, that all Italy fans are members of the the National Front, all Turkish fans like stabbing people and Leyton Oridnet fans all own copies of Chas and Dave's, Snooker Loopy.

You mean none of that is true??? :D ;)

[loz]

The Orient fans will show you what they can do with a load of balls and a snooker cue. They pop the reds in, screw back for the yellow, green blue, pin and black...

[Phillip]

Dang, you guys over there stay up late. I would be deep in my REM sleep by now, but then again I am older than you young lads.

[BlueBeard]

The Orient fans will show you what they can do with a load of balls and a snooker cue. They pop the reds in, screw back for the yellow, green blue, pin and black...

Evil b*stards!

[KrazyTea]

So if they are singing IRA songs what happens if everyone else responds with "The Famine Song", everyone singing the famine song gets in trouble while the IRA singers get nothing for disrupting Remembrance Day ceremonies. Is any one action really less bigoted then the other? There should be an equal punishment for both actions...

[loz]

Evil b*stards!

Evil they may be - above the law they are not.

Len Ganley just pulled them up for going straight from the green to the blue!

[sexelk]

was it reported in the media anywhere?

if not, why not?

[coco]

coco

I'd just like to point out that I said "a LOT of Septic fans", not ALL Septic fans. Try reading my post again.

BlueBeard I wasnt replying to you, I didnt read your post at all, I was posting the celtic players info to show how desrespectful SOME of their fans are for booing their own players for laying down their lives in the great war, but as I said, I didnt even read your post mate.

[BlueBeard]

BlueBeard I wasnt replying to you, I didnt read your post at all, I was posting the celtic players info to show how desrespectful SOME of their fans are for booing their own players for laying down their lives in the great war, but as I said, I didnt even read your post mate.

Fair enough mate, and I totally agree with your point. I can't understand why they have a minute's silence for remembrance at Septic games, this happens every time - but then, a minute's applause wouldn't exactly be appropriate.