DeanCartwright Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Its painfully obvious that big Roman has Pep Guardiola in his sights, but what I'm confused about is, he obviously wants Pep because he is a philosiphor and would eventually transform us into an attractive team playing attacking football... So why was AVB not given the time to do it? We saw how he flourished at FC Porto with young, hungry eager to learn players, and it was obvious that the old guard where at fault for AVB getting the sack. Granted, it sounds like AVB's attitude towards some of the players stunk, but I just don't understand why Roman would fork out £14M and give AVB the task of commensing a 'project' of ushering a younger team and making us a more entertaining side to watch, if he's just going to sack him not even a year into the job? Obviously it's going to take time Roman? So how would it be any different with Pep Guardiola?? Nothing seems to make sense.
Scott Harris Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I am not a fan of Guardiola , if he joined Chelsea you would soon see his limitations. Any one with players like Messi , Xavi and Iniesta in their team is going to do well. You don't need world class managers to manage teams like Barcelona.
barak81 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Spot on - take chelsea away and there is very little between their CV's if anything AVB has that impressive undefeated season, and with regards to the CL its matches up with AVB's europa cup, winning that competion with porto is not to dissimiler to wining the CL with barca
DeanCartwright Posted May 27, 2012 Author Posted May 27, 2012 I am not a fan of Guardiola , if he joined Chelsea you would soon see his limitations. Any one with players like Messi , Xavi and Iniesta in their team is going to do well. You don't need world class managers to manage teams like Barcelona. Exacly mate.
g3.7 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I suppose the difference is that guardiola is good at being a football manager.
barak81 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I suppose the difference is that guardiola is good at being a football manager. what evidence is there to suggest that above AVB?
blizeH Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) No, the difference is Guardiola seems to have good man management skills, something AVB was terrible at. Roman's decision to sack AVB was absolutely vindicated by the FA Cup and Champions League trophies now sat in our cabinet. For that reason, along with AVB's stubbornness, and complete inability to keep the players happy - it amazes me that people on here are so quick to defend him. But more importantly, I'm glad we got rid of AVB, and I don't want Pep here either - Robbie and Eddie have just won us a trophy that many people (including many of us) thought we weren't capable of winning last season, for that reason alone I'd be really disappointed if they weren't given another season or two. Edited May 27, 2012 by blizeH
bjd Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) I really want Robbie to get the gig, but I'm confused as to why some people are so 100% that Pep would be a disaster. How can anyone be so sure - honestly now, until he starts how can anyone be sure?! I also have to say I think the idea that he was so successful at Barca because of Messi and Xavi and whoever is far too easy a statement to make, lazy even. Its really not that simple. Edited May 27, 2012 by bjd
DeanCartwright Posted May 27, 2012 Author Posted May 27, 2012 No, the difference is Guardiola seems to have good man management skills, something AVB was terrible at. Roman's decision to sack AVB was absolutely vindicated by the FA Cup and Champions League trophies now sat in our cabinet. For that reason, along with AVB's stubbornness, and complete inability to keep the players happy - it amazes me that people on here are so quick to defend him. The old gaurd weren't happy because they weren't playing every single game, but if Roman has given AVB this project, what choice does he have? We need to get used to life without Cole, Lamps, Drog ect sooner or later don't we, but Of course they still have so much to offer us. Pep would want to play attacking football, something AVB tried to do, in which the old gaurd were not used to, as they have had this Mourinho park the bus philosophy drilled into them, they beleive it is the only way to play football!
Ben Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Guardiola will walk in with respect already in place. The players didn't have that with AVB, one of the reason it didn't work & then he implode.
DeanCartwright Posted May 27, 2012 Author Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) Yeah good point, and the fact he is only 33 aswell probably didn't help. Its sad though. I'm convinced given the time he would of been a sucess. Edited May 27, 2012 by DeanCartwright
Guest Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I'm still not convinced we will get Guardiola. Why would he leave Barca where his a hero to come to Chelsea a team with a poorer, older squad where he'd have less control over transfers?. It just doesn't make sense to me that he wouldnt want a full year off like he said. Unless he wants a director of football role
Maksimov Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure if I want Guardiola at Chelsea, but I can see us giving Robbie the full time job for a season and then appoint Guardiola, after he's taken his one year holiday. Edited May 27, 2012 by Maksimov
Eggy McMuffin Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 No, the difference is Guardiola seems to have good man management skills, something AVB was terrible at. Roman's decision to sack AVB was absolutely vindicated by the FA Cup and Champions League trophies now sat in our cabinet. For that reason, along with AVB's stubbornness, and complete inability to keep the players happy - it amazes me that people on here are so quick to defend him. But more importantly, I'm glad we got rid of AVB, and I don't want Pep here either - Robbie and Eddie have just won us a trophy that many people (including many of us) thought we weren't capable of winning last season, for that reason alone I'd be really disappointed if they weren't given another season or two. What makes you think that Pep is good at man management? He had to remove anyone who argued with him because he couldn't handle them. I just don't get where this idea comes from.
skaface1905 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 right now i dont give a monkeys, we are champions of europe, i can die a happy man, ive seen it all, from eddie mccreadie to champions of europe, luvvly jubbly.
JJ_Blue Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I dont want him. He will cost mega money and if it fails after 5 mints we will be once again left with a hefty payoff. RDM and Newton deserve a chance if they want it. They have the players onside, tactically he has proven he can mix it with the big boys and at WBA he tried to play ops football but had sh*t players. With the spending spree he can bring in his players and start the re-building. I will be disgusted if thy just ship out RDM and Newton after what they have achieved when we looked mid table fodder. Thy have earnt their chance and I hope the muppets Gourlay and Buck pull their fingers out!!! Guardiola good manager but not proven outside Spain... Massive gamble that were not ready for.. £15m a year reported... Not on your nelly!!
Scott Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 Didn't Robbie knock Pep out of the CL? Seems we already have the top dog.
barak81 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 No, the difference is Guardiola seems to have good man management skills, something AVB was terrible at. Roman's decision to sack AVB was absolutely vindicated by the FA Cup and Champions League trophies now sat in our cabinet. For that reason, along with AVB's stubbornness, and complete inability to keep the players happy - it amazes me that people on here are so quick to defend him. But more importantly, I'm glad we got rid of AVB, and I don't want Pep here either - Robbie and Eddie have just won us a trophy that many people (including many of us) thought we weren't capable of winning last season, for that reason alone I'd be really disappointed if they weren't given another season or two. Apparently AVB had great man mangement skills at porto. Pep has only ever been invovled with the one club, no one knows how he would do here, probably be better then last season
That Boy Brandinho Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I really want Robbie to get the gig, but I'm confused as to why some people are so 100% that Pep would be a disaster. How can anyone be so sure - honestly now, until he starts how can anyone be sure?! I also have to say I think the idea that he was so successful at Barca because of Messi and Xavi and whoever is far too easy a statement to make, lazy even. Its really not that simple. The only thing I can think of is that they feel so strongly that Robbie should be the man that they can't help but disparage Guardiola. I sincerely hope this is the case and people here don't actually believe Guardiola is a bad manager who only won because of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta.
nonotnowjim Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 (edited) The title of the topic - why Pep rather than AVB? Well - I think the whole vision was that it should have been AVB over Pep. He was Romans choice, the young gun hired to come an implement the dream of winning + playing attractive football. I guess that the idea was that AVB would be given the time and backing to re-invent the team and create a Barca type team out of us. Of course it all fell apart when results didnt go our way.I honestly believe that if it looked like we would have qualified for 4th spot, then AVB would have stayed. If we had been guarenteed Champ league football next year, then i think Roman would have accepted not winning anything, and backed AVB with the clear out that he clearly had planned. The fact is that we were appalling in his last few months. The pressure grew, the players seemingly lost faith ( and respect?) in the "project" and it looked like we were in freefall...about to be knocked out of the champ league, taken to a replay against brum in the FA cup and not looking good for 4th. hence, the (ultimatly correct) decision to remove him from post, and the subsequent dream to appoint pep g. Edited May 27, 2012 by nonotnowjim
CunningStunt Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 I'm not sure about Guardiola either. Without a total overhaul of the squad we are more suited to managers like Mourinho, Hiddink, Ferguson, etc.
g3.7 Posted May 27, 2012 Posted May 27, 2012 what evidence is there to suggest that above AVB? is that a real question? they've both managed one club in top european leagues. one of them brought a literally unprecedented amount of trophies back with him. the other guy delivered the worst return on the resources he had at his disposal for at least a couple of decades. robbie has saved us in such an incredible, almost impossible to overstate way. ignore the bits of silver that go with it, ignore the history he created for himself. ensuring we are still in europe and not seen as a fading irrelevance at a point where we need to rebuild is so crucial. he's managed to get into a bus that had already fallen off a cliff and somehow drive us to the top of the world. for that alone he deserves to be the manager. but make no mistake, villas boas was a huge disaster, the likes of which you rarely see. the damage he was doing wasn't just making for a rubbish season, but it was going to set up a very slow, very arduous fight to get back to where we were when ranieri left. robbie has done so, so much for us. to the point where we don't need to pick over avb's individual failings one by one. because being in the champions league, and being champions of europe, has erased not only the damage avb was doing, but also the damage done in sacking ancelotti. what I will say is this: people go on about avb with a sympathy I cannot understand. he did not arrive with a remit to rebuild over a number of years. of course once he had cocked up to the point that he could only spin this season positively by using those terms he duly did, and the journalists with mock incredulity duly repeated it. but if you cast your mind back to his appointment, you'll remember that he wanted the older players. from the outset he said this was a squad that would compete for the title. THAT was what he believed. he moved the goalposts further and further back with every disastrous move he made. he spent all summer in an "evaluation period" like a substitute teacher who needs 3 months to work out that the kid at the back with tattoos on his eyelids and a fag in his mouth is probably the one he needs to keep an eye on. why go on what villas boas did at porto when you KNOW what he did with us?
Tim W Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 One played 375 league games and 50 internationals and managed for five successful years - the other owns an xbox. I'd still give the job to RDM & EN
Banjo33 Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Why Pep and not AVB? Well I don't think that is the question. Whilst Pep won something like 13 trophies out of the 16 Barcelona competed for in his time (which is impressive in anyone's books), during that time he never showed any particular tactical nous, or ability to change games. Barca were simply that good. The one area he did alter post Rikjaard was the reliance on Messi. This increased dramatically, and although the loss of David Villa this season was costly, he showed time and again that his game plan was like at school when you have That Kid, better than anyone else. Give the ball to That Kid. He might well have good man management skills (Zlatan would disagree...) but until we see him with a different squad, in a different league, we won't know how good he truly was. I don't want Chels to be that experiment, Why Pep and not AVB? No. Why not RDM?
Teritus Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 I don't know why everyone's saying that we've had this 'park the bus' tactic in recent years. Sure, maybe against Barca and Bayern, but not in most games.
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