Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread

[Bluehatter]

to improve our chances

it is incredibly simple

Who cares who the goals are going to? You don't change a strikeforce that is averaging 3 goals a game. It is unheard of!

[abramovich]

Be careful what you wish for. I'm not saying it will happen but if we took torres out the team and put in say a falcao then you may find that mata, oscar and hazard don't find an understanding with him like the one they have found with torres. Not only will that effect falcao performance but it will also hurt the others aswell.

What I'm saying is every game this year bar the athletico game and the shaktar game our front 4 have linked up well and looked a threat. Why change a front 4 that is grabbing the goals and firing us to the top of the league?

Of course, there's always a chance a new player won't adapt well. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to acquire the best out there or improve our current options.

The front four you're referring to would be even more effective with someone like Falcao. World class striker in the form of his life would score them for fun with trio of Hazard, Mata and Oscar behind him.

[Englishman]

That's a bit like saying you don't change a team which won the Champions League. But we did, because there were still obvious weaknesses in the side which needed addressing, and we're now better for it. And I'd say the number of goals we're scoring has a lot more to do with Mata/Hazard/Oscar than Torres.

[Mike Carefree]

MMM...I get this feeling....Now im a Torres fan, (but), i really do feel he isnt going to be here for the contract length...Hes NOT happy..No matter what chelsea do with him we generally end up pulling him off for Sturridge....If we buy who we think chelsea will buy in jan, i really believe it wont be long before he asks to go

[Bluehatter]

That's a bit like saying you don't change a team which won the Champions League. But we did, because there were still obvious weaknesses in the side which needed addressing, and we're now better for it. And I'd say the number of goals we're scoring has a lot more to do with Mata/Hazard/Oscar than Torres.

No it isn't! That champions league team had a number of weakenesses and was based on solid defending and hoping for a bit of magic from drogba. The team we have now are playing some of the best football in the world right now and frequently scoring 3 goals a game yet alot of people want to swap our striker still. What about the defence? Isn't that the problem at the minute?

People are always going to want more and that can be alot of teams downfall! I don't want that to happen to chelsea.

[onebelo]

No it isn't! That champions league team had a number of weakenesses and was based on solid defending and hoping for a bit of magic from drogba. The team we have now are playing some of the best football in the world right now and frequently scoring 3 goals a game yet alot of people want to swap our striker still. What about the defence? Isn't that the problem at the minute?

People are always going to want more and that can be alot of teams downfall! I don't want that to happen to chelsea.

you are being ridiculous.

if messi was offered in a swap deal for torres would you take it? or would you leave it, because 'we're doing well at the moment'?

falcao would immensely improve our team. you are blinded - ask any other person who's not a chelsea fan who would be the better the option and they would look at you like you're mad. (most chelsea fans to, probably)

[Damo810]

I think the biggest problem with Torres will always be his price tag. Because of his cost he will always be slated in the media and he will always force the hand of his manager to play him no matter his consistency. It is a shame really, were he purchased for less he would be a valuable role player and perhaps celebrated. Unfortunately that is not the case here and that is the tragedy of it all

Your mad to think he'd still be here..Hasn't scored in 5 games, and has a worse record than Sheva at Chelsea. RVP showed just what we're lacking, Torres probably could and should have gone through on goal yesterday, but chose to go down, thats not what a top striker does. When you look at our attack Torres is a weak point, he is the weak point and the only one at that. Imagine your a CB for the opposition team, who would you want to have the ball, Torres or one of the 3 behind him? Now imagine the same circumstances, but with Falcao in our team, or RVP in our team..

[Guest RFC_CFC]

People seem to think we will automatically get Falcao but there is a number of clubs who have our financial strength and a few who can better it.

All the top teams will be after him and if it's January then bidding will start at a ridculous amount I'd wager.

Torres is doing alright so far, working hard and scoring goals. I think we need another striker but I'd be amazed if it was Falcao.

[Guest RFC_CFC]

Your mad to think he'd still be here..Hasn't scored in 5 games, and has a worse record than Sheva at Chelsea. RVP showed just what we're lacking, Torres probably could and should have gone through on goal yesterday, but chose to go down, thats not what a top striker does. When you look at our attack Torres is a weak point, he is the weak point and the only one at that. Imagine your a CB for the opposition team, who would you want to have the ball, Torres or one of the 3 behind him? Now imagine the same circumstances, but with Falcao in our team, or RVP in our team..

Choose to go down?

I'm sorry but have you ever played football before? You do realise if you are going at full pelt and someone slides in and catches ur shin that you lose balance and go down? Where is this choice you are going on about?

Jeeze.

Edited October 29, 2012 by RFC_CFC

[onebelo]

People seem to think we will automatically get Falcao but there is a number of clubs who have our financial strength and a few who can better it.

who can offer what we can? a top league with a starting spot ? city are packed with forwards already and anyone else who could afford him arent top level. falcao seems a pretty determined guy to me so psg, anzhi and whoever else seem unlikely.

real madrid or us, i dont think anyone else would be in the picture

[Celery1989]

Would it be ok to suggest that based on what I've seen of him so far in a blue shirt Fernando is not good enough to be our first choice striker? I don't care that he's linking up well or is trying very hard. I want a world class striker that scares the sh*t out of the opposing defenses every time he steps on the pitch. I want someone who can create goals on his own. For a team of our ambition it's a must.

We gave him plenty of time, were extremely patient and bent over backwards to accommodate him and it's still not working to the extent that it should. Time to go for a different option.

Thank you sir, that is exactly how I feel.

[Guest RFC_CFC]

who can offer what we can? a top league with a starting spot ? city are packed with forwards already and anyone else who could afford him arent top level. falcao seems a pretty determined guy to me so psg, anzhi and whoever else seem unlikely.

real madrid or us, i dont think anyone else would be in the picture

It comes down to money, Silva and Ibra choose PSG because of that. All the top teams will be looking at Falcao and City as we know can offer stupid amounts that most find hard to turn down although they would need to shift Mario and Edin first I'd think.

I just don't see this type of buy in January as it makes no sense for them to sell a player who can earn them 20 odd million and then sell him for the same amount as they could in January.

We will most likely bring in someone cheaper or just recall Lukaku from his loan spell IMO.

[Ben]

i find it very funny how people defending torres bring up the "dont let his past or £50million price tag cloud your judgement" argument

on the contrary, those are PRECISELY the two things keeping him in a chelsea line up.

based on his chelsea career alone and nothing else this lad would not still be starting for us and the only reasons he is is because the board/fans are hoping he can rekindle his glory days and in hope that £50mill wasnt spent on feck all. think about it.

Spot on.

[Damo810]

Choose to go down?

I'm sorry but have you ever played football before? You do realise if you are going at full pelt and someone slides in and catches ur shin that you lose balance and go down? Where is this choice you are going on about?

Jeeze.

Yes..If you think that slight touch was enough to bring down a player, who weighs 70KG and is in prime physical condition your mad. How often has torres gone down easy this year? Looking straight at the ref to see did he win a freekick and how often did he win it. There was contact, that there is no doubt, but he could quite easily have stayed up on gone through on goal.

Il back Torres to the last, I always hoped he came good for us, but he's lost the instinct that made him great and now he'd rather go down and try and win the freekick or peno than take a shot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6_0HkmQvS0E

Just to add to the post, where does he lose his balance? From what I see, he stops bringing his right foot forward, moments after the tackle, and lets his left foot collapse. There was contact, and it should have been a freekick if you go by the letter of the law, but how on earth do you not feel he could have stayed up there? He clinches his leg then like he got hit by a train..

[Chippy]

All the debate on Torres gos round and round...a goal and its the start of his run of form that will see him again as one of the most feared strikers in the World, a couple of blanks and his confidence is shot, pace gone and he just doesn't want to be here.

Its hard to talk about being fans as we all want him to succeed, a lot of us feel what he is contributing is in itself a reasonable success, a lot of us feel its not enough.

I feel to be honest he has only shown enough to be one of our strikers...not the main man and not just fighting for the spot with Danny, for me a Club with our aspirations should have another quality striker to call on.

That said I must admit that I fall into the group that would say hes not doing enough, hes had decent showings but I feel hes had a very fair crack at showing he is good enough to lead the line here and when you look back at all the excuses and reasons trotted out since hes been here as to why he has strugled it starts to look a bit nieve...lets think about some of them,

We had the Drogba and Torres can't play together soon followed by Torres starting a fair few games with not much improvement,

Malouda, Kalou etc wouldn't pass to him...maybe he'll be better with Raul in the team....maybe not,

Confidence, he needs that first Goal...that came and went as have a few more that don't appear to have given him much more confidence than he had,

Better players, playmakers...Hazard, Mata and Oscar must be a dream for a main striker to have behind them.

I'm not a Torres basher, I've never tried to put down any player at Chelsea and always feel happy to give them time and back them but I am feeling that a really Hungry player up front for us could be the Icing on the Cake with this Squad and I don't feel Torres has what it takes anymore.

Its fine for people to say we shouldn't compare the player we have with the player that was so good for his last Club but I doubt he was bought with the idea he would plod along at the level he did in his last season or so there, I am pretty certain Roman expected after a few injury free months and the confidence boost letting Drogba go must have given him that we would be looking at a very close thing to the player he was...sadly I doubt we will ever see that.

He isn't a liability by any means and has had some neat touches and good Goals but usually when he has no time to think or a header, a lot of attacks break down with him running into defenders and not getting a shot off and that is a concern.

I hope he comes good but I would have Danny getting a lot more time, making him the main man has not done the trick and I believe he should fight for his place like anyone else.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Chippy

[Bluehatter]

you are being ridiculous.

if messi was offered in a swap deal for torres would you take it? or would you leave it, because 'we're doing well at the moment'?

falcao would immensely improve our team. you are blinded - ask any other person who's not a chelsea fan who would be the better the option and they would look at you like you're mad. (most chelsea fans to, probably)

The irony of you calling me ridiculous is crazy. In the very next sentence you ask if I would take a swap deal for messi. Messi is probably the best of all time of course I'd f**king take him over any player.

I'll probably have alot of people disagree with this but right now I'd rather stick with torres than falcao. I just don't see how falcao can improve things. Will we be scoring 5 goals a game instead of 3? I don't see how it can get much better for our strike force. I think if we are top by january and our strike force is still pumping in the goals then bringing in another highly paid striker can only unsettle things. We should be looking for the young hidden gems not the big price players.

[onebelo]

The irony of you calling me ridiculous is crazy. In the very next sentence you ask if I would take a swap deal for messi. Messi is probably the best of all time of course I'd f**king take him over any player.

the basis of the point is the same.

I'll probably have alot of people disagree with this but right now I'd rather stick with torres than falcao.

yes, you would.

[Kalou Time]

Instead of spending 50 million on Falcao, maybe we should give Lukaku a try?

He is getting plenty of game time at west brom and come the summer might be ready. He may not be on the same level as a Falcao but we can help get him there. He is currently causing a lot more problems for premier league defenders than Torres, and seeing as we persisted this long with Torres, surely we can give Lukaku a fair go to prove himself.

We paid big money for Lukaku and this summer will be 2 years since he joined. He deserves a chance.

[That Boy Brandinho]

Instead of spending 50 million on Falcao, maybe we should give Lukaku a try?

He is getting plenty of game time at west brom and come the summer might be ready. He may not be on the same level as a Falcao but we can help get him there. He is currently causing a lot more problems for premier league defenders than Torres, and seeing as we persisted this long with Torres, surely we can give Lukaku a fair go to prove himself.

We paid big money for Lukaku and this summer will be 2 years since he joined. He deserves a chance.

I'm skeptical that Lukaku will be ready in the summer to play for us. Depending on how much he's progressed between now and then, it might be better to send him out on loan once more. He's played well for West Brom, but his first touch still needs a lot of work and the only way that's going to improve is through consistent playing time. Our primary striker next year might be Torres or Sturridge or Falcao, but I can't imagine it'll be Lukaku. He's just not ready to play that role for us.

Also, it's oft-repeated that we paid big money for him, but it isn't true. We paid £13m. Hardly cheap, but certainly not big money either. It will indeed be two years since he joined us, but the first year was a total waste. He really needed last year and this out on loan and he only got half of that. He may still need that extra year.

Edited October 30, 2012 by That Boy Brandinho

[ishangodbole]

WHATS WRONG HERE?

We were robbed on Sunday and all you people could do is come here and bash Torres?

[TheWestwayWonder]

After yesterday is there any doubt that Torres can no longer get a 50/50 called his way? I've been saying this now for about 12 months, its been like officials somehow took joy in his futility and loved booking him for "dives" many of which were cases of minor but important contact (exactly like this, imo)

For him, the only advantage out of yesterday's sham result was that he might actually be awarded all of the fouls he earns in his buildup play.

[Kalou Time]

WHATS WRONG HERE?

We were robbed on Sunday and all you people could do is come here and bash Torres?

This is an issue we have had for 2 years, not 2 days. Our striker is performing below the level required more often than not.

You can bury your head in the sand and cry about Sunday but whats done is done. There is no way to change that.

We can however, sort out our striker situation ourselves.

[The Egg Man]

I’ve been considering writing an article about Fernando for a while. Like any true Chelsea fan I will always support and defend our players throughout the season. This is especially difficult when you are the only Chelsea fan in a group of 15 avid and, it’s worth noting, educated football fans. This has caused me to understand the strengths and weaknesses of our club from an outside perspective – I hear what no Chelsea fan wants to hear on a regular basis. I think it would be fair to say I’m an expert in the defence of our club and, frustratingly, very experienced in this area. Looking back on the last few seasons there are countless Chelsea related controversies that cause furious reactions to the rest of the English Footballing world. Whether it be a shooting at the training ground, a sacked manager, a wasted talent, an over-inflated transfer price, or a player tweeting derogatory comments – football fans love to hate Chelsea and, I hate to say, we give them all the ammunition they need.

I’m not suggesting that the club is to blame in all of these controversies, especially the sacking of AVB, which would have resulted in no Champions League trophy had we stuck with him. But what I am suggesting is that in our avid and far too common defence of our club, we have created a mentality which can blur our perspective of what is right and wrong for our club. Since winning the Champions League, I’ve decided to be more of a realist. I don’t want to constantly stick my neck out in situations that will simply get me shot down by my friends – arguments that can’t be won. This leads me perfectly to my point; Fernando Torres.

I have defended Fernando throughout his whole time at Chelsea. He is someone who has been put in countless difficult situations during his turbulent time at Chelsea and I will never, ever forget that moment when he scored at the Camp Nou last season. I will always try and remember him for that moment and not for the points I am about to list. However, it genuinely pains me to write that I think it’s time we considered selling Torres. Before you write a list of negative messages to me, please read on. I thought it would be good to start with a comparison of Torres’ best season in the EPL – Liverpool, 2007 and compare this to his first full season at Chelsea, 2011/12. Now I know that it would be silly to compare two season that everyone knows are at opposite ends of the form spectrum, but there were some positives that we took from Torres last season, wasn’t there? Take a look:

2007 2011

Matches played: 33 32

Goals: 24 6

Assists: 4 4

Shots: 96 62

Shots on goal: 61 23

Crosses: 34 41

Fernando Torres played as much football as he did when he was at Liverpool in his most successful season, than he did in his worst. There is an excuse that he did not play enough football as our leading man (mainly because of the Drog), but you can see that this is not true. He didn’t play against the best teams, in the big games, because deep down the management knew they couldn’t trust him. What’s clear is that he played in the ‘easier’ games, against the worse defences, and well and truly bottled it.

The one positive that was taken from last season was that he adapted his game and became a better all-round player – this is nonsense! Torres got the same amount of assists than he did in his best season and even then, they’re poor. For someone that spent so much time down either flank, I would expect more assists.

He pretty much had 1/3 less shots than in 2007 which to be fair, isn’t really a surprise. What is alarming though is the fact that only 23 of those shots were on target! That’s a difference of 38 shots. I don’t even need to elaborate on that point.

Last, but not least, the crossing stats. This links in with my point about his assists. He only made 7 more crosses last season! 7 more!! All he was doing was taking the ball away from the penalty area and wasting it. His job is to score and I bit my tongue on plenty of occasions when he would run toward a defender and end up wondering toward either side of the area. Torres has a job at Chelsea – to score goals. I don’t mind him supporting the team by creating space for others or getting assists, but I do mind when this starts to detriment to our cause.

It’s clear to me that Torres didn’t actually become a better ‘all round’ player last season. He’s simply wasting a position that could be filled by a far more prolific player and is definitely one of the biggest flops, living off his own ego that was blown up in one good season 5 years ago. Liverpool well and truly got the best deal of the century when we paid £50m for him and clearly, Abramovich hasn’t wanted to admit he made a monumental mistake when we signed him. His patience will wear thin though, I have no fear. I think we’ll be seeing a new striker in the ranks come January – or Chelsea will not win a major trophy this season.

Although there were some glimpses of form returning this season, I can’t see him ever getting back to the standard we paid £50m for. With Torres, we have a player who tries his hardest and I will always appreciate that, but there has to come a point when you cut your losses. Torres’ hardest is no longer good enough. Chelsea is on the verge of a really special team, a team that could be our best yet, but I hate to say that this will not be the case if Torres carries on leading our line. We’re all entitled to our own opinion and I would absolutely love it if Fernando proved me wrong – honestly! I’m just making the point that perhaps Torres was never worth £50m and there comes a point when you just have to hold your hands up and admit, we were wrong to pay such an over inflated price for him. Thanks for all your efforts Fernando, but from this Chelsea fan, I think it’s time we said goodbye.

Kind regards

The Egg Man

[JoeyN]

Oh go away.

[Guest RFC_CFC]

Could have probably added this to the 37 page thread dedicated to Fernando Torres tbh.