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Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread


Torres: stay or go?  

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  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

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There is no doubt Torres is no where near the player he was at Liverpool.

 

His time with Chelsea has turned out to be a failure.

 

His performance against Arsenal is further proof of that.

 

If Rafa  persists in starting him things will only get worse.

 

Since Ba arrived the pressure on Torres has increased.

 

From now on Rafa must start Ba.

 

I'd prefer if he f**ked off, but starting Ba is a solid backup option.

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What happens if we played Ba for the next few games he breaks down Feb 1st and we only have Torres, now that would be stupid.

 

I still think we should recall Lukkaku we pay his wages and spent a fortune getting him here, he comes back when we need him, despite his loan doing him the world of good.

 

Whilst we have two strikers they will be rotated as we wait for hopefully Falcao in the summer.

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There is no doubt Torres is no where near the player he was at Liverpool.

His time with Chelsea has turned out to be a failure.

His performance against Arsenal is further proof of that.

If Rafa persists in starting him things will only get worse.

Since Ba arrived the pressure on Torres has increased.

From now on Rafa must start Ba.

Did u copy that from a newspaper article?

They all sound like direct quotes from something i just read online.

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What happens if we played Ba for the next few games he breaks down Feb 1st and we only have Torres, now that would be stupid.

And what if he is rotated and breaks down anyway? It's just as likely to happen.

 

There's no reason Ba can't play 2 games in a single week. Maybe not every week over the course of a season but he could definitely have started against Arsenal and again against Swansea. United wouldn't leave Van Persie out of their important games, likewise City with Aguero. We shouldn't do it either.

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And what if he is rotated and breaks down anyway? It's just as likely to happen.

 

There's no reason Ba can't play 2 games in a single week. Maybe not every week over the course of a season but he could definitely have started against Arsenal and again against Swansea. United wouldn't leave Van Persie out of their important games, likewise City with Aguero. We shouldn't do it either.

 

Ba started against Stoke and Southampton 12th and 16th if he started against Arsenal that would have made it 3 games in 8 days, so he has played him twice within a week.  As long as he starts Ba tomm I won't complain. City and United have four strikers so if RVP and Aguerro break down it is less of an issue.

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If we were trying to unload Torres this window it's a tricky one, leave him out and all buyers will assume he's sh*t and offer low, play him and he's crap and the same will happen, play him and get a lucky break and he scores or even, surprise, surprise, plays well then we might see someone taking a punt.

 

Sensible thing would be to bring him on once a game is won (you'd have thought 2-0 against Southampton might fit this normally) in the hope, without pressure, he can convinve enough for someone to buy him on the strength of reputation and apparent 'form'.

 

Otherwise we are stuck with a player who's keeping two players off our fair play wage bill and decreasing by the day in value.

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Mentioned this in the matchday thread and whilst its a little harsh because we scored i think its still worth highlighting.

 

Just look at the position of Torres when we attacked for the first goal on Sunday. Right at the the top of the pic. This is our centre forward!

 

300rxjk.jpg

 

It actually looks worse if you look at the replay on the video here from around the 0:47 mark. He really does seem to actually run away from the ball, doesnt even look like he is trying to pull a defender away.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sm3eejT0vY

 

I know its harsh because we scored but its still bizarre.

 

Yeah I remember you mentioning that in the match thread. Thanks for illustrating.

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Mentioned this in the matchday thread and whilst its a little harsh because we scored i think its still worth highlighting.

 

Just look at the position of Torres when we attacked for the first goal on Sunday. Right at the the top of the pic. This is our centre forward!

 

300rxjk.jpg

 

It actually looks worse if you look at the replay on the video here from around the 0:47 mark. He really does seem to actually run away from the ball, doesnt even look like he is trying to pull a defender away.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sm3eejT0vY

 

I know its harsh because we scored but its still bizarre.

 

I actually think that it wasn't such a bad run by Torres. At first it looked as if he tried to pull the defender away, but even if that didn't work he still created an option out wide and a midfielder (Hazard?) could come in with full speed down the middle.

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If we were trying to unload Torres this window it's a tricky one, leave him out and all buyers will assume he's sh*t and offer low, play him and he's crap and the same will happen, play him and get a lucky break and he scores or even, surprise, surprise, plays well then we might see someone taking a punt.

 

Sensible thing would be to bring him on once a game is won (you'd have thought 2-0 against Southampton might fit this normally) in the hope, without pressure, he can convinve enough for someone to buy him on the strength of reputation and apparent 'form'.

 

Otherwise we are stuck with a player who's keeping two players off our fair play wage bill and decreasing by the day in value.

 

 

The time to offload Torres has sailed - that time was in the summer, when probably suitors might have excused him due to poor service; Drogba's shadow; selfish team mates; constant changes; team not setup to bring the best out of his abilities etc. He might have been worth a punt for 20-30 million just because of his status; a possibility of regaining his old form and a big name striker for the likes of PSG(similar to us buying Veron off United)

Those excuses have gone out of the window and the only way he is sold is if he diminishes his financial requirements by at least half in terms of wage. 

 

His reputation has been tarnished as he has failed to score on a regular basis while having possibly two of the most creative midfielders in the EPL behind him. When clubs analyze his contribution to the squad his goals are not due to individual class displayed by Torres(exceptions being Newcastle; Villa) and are in a large proportion goals which did not secure any points or were won against bottom half teams. Then the new club would look at other aspects of his game, last season at least there were assists to speak of, this year he just looses the ball constantly or barely finds himself in a position to be found by his team mates or make any sort of impact to the game leaving us a man down for a large portion of the match. He hides away; his passing is below average; first touch leads to a tackle most of the time; his movement in the box is appalling; and he generally looks completely inept despite playing over 2000 minutes and being favored at the club. 

 

The only way Torres is going to leave is a similar situation to Sheva - with us paying out a fare chunk of his wages as he tries to recapture his old form in a newer club. The benefit in terms of Shirt sales will certainly allow the new club to cover a large chunk of his wages, and he still has some initial appeal for opposition fans("give him a chance, Chelsea didn't use him correctly etc - he can still be World Class etc". No club is going to risk signing him and paying a transfer fee. Berbatov in the summer went for 4 million, you think anyone is going to be taking a pint on Torres for anything above 10 million if they know we don't want him?

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I actually think that it wasn't such a bad run by Torres. At first it looked as if he tried to pull the defender away, but even if that didn't work he still created an option out wide and a midfielder (Hazard?) could come in with full speed down the middle.

 

Perhaps. Im no expert, but personally id like to see our centre forward busting a gut to get on the end of a move like that.

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I've never been so excited in years as when he signed. Everyone has bent over backwards to support him but he just doesn't look interested.

In the grand scheme of things look at what we've won since he came, so not a complete waste of money.

If only we could find someone who really appreciated this club.

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Perhaps. Im no expert, but personally id like to see our centre forward busting a gut to get on the end of a move like that.

 

Look at Mata for that goal. He senses the opportunity before anyone else. He's got his arm in the air, he's hanging in the right position, making sure he's onside. He lets Dave know about the pass, not the other way round. Then there's the touch. Dear God. Look at that touch. Cushions it. Makes it impossible for the defender to intercept and then bang, goal. That's a centre-forward's goal. That's what you want.

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I actually think that it wasn't such a bad run by Torres. At first it looked as if he tried to pull the defender away, but even if that didn't work he still created an option out wide and a midfielder (Hazard?) could come in with full speed down the middle.

Obviously, that was what he was trying to do, but he could not have done more to take himself out of the game, really.

 

Another goal worth looking at is Frank's winner at Goodison. While the action is going on in the 6-yard box and Frank is getting on the end of the knock-down and rebounds, Torres stands yards away, motionless, on his heels, looking on.

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I've never been so excited in years as when he signed. Everyone has bent over backwards to support him but he just doesn't look interested.

In the grand scheme of things look at what we've won since he came, so not a complete waste of money.

If only we could find someone who really appreciated this club.

You should know by now that players nowadays, or at least 8/10 of em, dont join chelsea for appreciation

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I actually think that it wasn't such a bad run by Torres. At first it looked as if he tried to pull the defender away, but even if that didn't work he still created an option out wide and a midfielder (Hazard?) could come in with full speed down the middle.

 

It was a horrible run by Torres. In and of itself, the idea of pulling a defender wide to open up the middle is a perfectly valid strategy, but not in that situation. The defender didn't bite because there was no reason for him to do so. The danger was in the middle. Even after Torres realized nobody followed him, he kept going. What he needed to do was cut back and try to follow the play in case Szczesny deflected the ball into his path.

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Guest RFC_CFC

Chelsea striker Fernando Torres’ poor form is down to his lack of confidence and not the impact of injuries, reckons ex-Liverpool head of sport science Dr Peter Brukner.


The world renowned physician spent two years with the club from 2010 to 2012 and dealt with the Spanish striker when he suffered knee problems.


But he reckons Torres, now struggling to regain his best form with Chelsea following a £50million move in January 2011, only lost his confidence when out of action – not his blistering pace and finishing skills which made him one of the world’s best forwards.


Brukner told Kick Off: “His injuries were reasonably serious. He had some knee problems. He had a number of arthroscopies in his knee and certainly his knee is not 100%.


“How much that is affecting his football is hard to say. On occasions you see some excellent play from Fernando.


“I think the timing was unfortunate. It happened at the end of the season just before the 2010 World Cup. He was obviously desperate to play at the World Cup and probably pushed things a little too hard.


“When he joined the Spanish team He probably got a bit overenthusiastic and pushed too hard too early, had a setback, then had a very disappointing World Cup even though he’s got a World Cup winners medal.


“He came back to Liverpool and wasn’t happy at Liverpool. He was very frustrated and basically I think he lost a lot of confidence. Whether that was partly related to his knee, whether he didn’t have 100% confidence in his knee, [i don’t know].


“The testing we did at Liverpool showed he was still the fastest player at the club when he was there. So I think a lot of it is confidence, confidence in his physical ability to do things and also confidence in his ability to do things mentally.


“Fernando Torres had had a dream life. He’d had a dream career. He’d never had a setback. Everything had gone so well.


“He’d gone from Atletico [Madrid] to Liverpool. He was a sensation when he came to Liverpool. It’s all about how you cope with setbacks and he had these injury setbacks and maybe some elite sports people aren’t conditioned to deal with them.


“The rest of us are used to setbacks and have them every day and maybe we get better at coping with setbacks than elite players.”


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

See you all in 5 pages!

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Cheer up at least Liverpool sp*nked 35 million of the money they got for him, on Andy Carroll...every cloud and all that..!

 

The funniest part is that Andy Carroll isn't a bad player, they just royally f**ked up by wasting money on the likes of Stewie Downing who couldn't provide proper service. Carroll isn't a player like Suarez who can create his own goals from nothing, but his aerial presence, hold up play and physicality are all very impressive. If they didn't spend £40m on Downing and Henderson and instead got a couple of wide players who could cross, I think he'd have had a very successful season and might have eventually justified the fee. Instead, he had a disappointing season, his confidence suffered and then they shipped him off to West Ham where he's played quite well the few times I've seen him.

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