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Torres - The "Groundhog Day" Thread


Torres: stay or go?  

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  1. 1. Torres: stay or go?

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Thanks to the negotiating team and Mourinho for finally bringing this to an end.

This is a player who cost the club 3 managers, including a double champion and a club legend, to be fired. He had his way and got the club to appoint the fat one, which will permanently leave a blemish on this club.

On the night we won the Champions League thanks to Drogba, and not Fernando "corner" Torres, he had the nerve to go and moan to the media. It's no surprise why Drogba didn't bother to negotiate a new contract. Torres' demands also cost the club a good, young striker in Sturridge.

Regarding his "highlights" here, there were none. Yes, he won the corner that led to Drogba's goal. But you can trace back every incident that led us to win that competition or even be in the final. Ashley Cole's clearance off the line against Napoli, Terry's goal against Napoli, Lampard's perfect passes in both legs against Barca that led to goals. Torres is getting cheap praise.

We did not challenge for a league title under him. A 50m player, let alone a striker, should be able to lead his team to a title. Aguero won it for City, RVP won it for United, In 2010 Drogba for us.

Yes, he did score in the Europa league final, but that is not our level. Chelsea is an elite club.

Torres has been an abject failure. One of the worst players to wear this shirt. Take his price out of the equation, he still failed to do his one job on the pitch. The likes of Mata, Willian, Hazard, Oscar were all brought in to help. They excelled but he didn't.

He summed up how he felt about this club by refusing to score against liverpool and passing the ball to Willian.

Good riddance. The club can finally go upwards now.

agree ... Torres utter failure on the pitch contributed to Manager's leaving ... & may well have contributed to Rafa's arrival ...

There's a few Torres apologists on this thread still finding difficulty letting go ... Torres was in the main absolutely dreadful ... this Club bent over backwards to accommodate him, at virtually every opportunity to the detriment of others ... this may well have caused resentment in the dressing room, who knows? Yet, despite the bloody obvious that Torres wasn't good enough from day one he was given chance after chance after chance ... soul destroying IMHO ... thank god he's gone ...

Anyway, we are all entitled to differ with our opinions, let's just move on ...

Edited by cfcblue
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"Phil makes a snow sculpture of Rita's face and they kiss for the first time. The moment they kiss, the snow begins to fall, which had never happened before, implying to the audience that their kiss has broken the time loop. They retire to his room. He wakes the next morning and finds the time loop is, in fact, broken; it is now February 3 and Rita is still with him. They walk outside and Phil declares that they shall live there (renting initially)."

 

The End.

Edited by dcmining
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"Phil makes a snow sculpture of Rita's face and they kiss for the first time. The moment they kiss, the snow begins to fall, which had never happened before, implying to the audience that their kiss has broken the time loop. They retire to his room. He wakes the next morning and finds the time loop is, in fact, broken; it is now February 3 and Rita is still with him. They walk outside and Phil declares that they shall live there (renting initially)."

 

The End.

?

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I'm not putting much stock into this theory. A transfer fee is essentially a compensation payment to the selling club. It's compensation because the selling club has to terminate its contract with a player, which means that the selling club is losing value. Ordinarily, the compensation has to be at least enough for the selling club to recover the value lost by terminating the contract.

 

The contract between the buying club and the player is a separate and distinct transaction from the transfer (or compensation) fee from the buying club to the selling club. There is therefore no reason that the contract between the buying club and a player would be tied into the transfer fee payment structure between the buying and selling clubs.

 

In the case of Torres; the Chelsea-Torres contract interaction is distinct from the Chelsea-Liverpool transfer fee interaction. The 5.5 year contract he established with Chelsea has no necessary bearing on the payment structure of the transfer fee paid to Liverpool. Nor should any future interaction between Chelsea and Torres, such as a loan move, have any bearing on the payment structure of the Chelsea-Liverpool transfer fee.

 

Edit: The transfer is handy from an FFP perspective only in the sense that our wage liability over the next two years has been reduced. The transfer fee is a sunk cost.

You might be right but then again so in part may be the author of the article

Payment of any transfer fee (compensation is you like) can be paid over the length of the players contract.So yes we could still owe Liverpool something in the region of £18 million if that indeed was the case. The rules allowing this sort of arrangement was changed a year or two ago.

If indeed we did agree to pay the fee over the length of the contract it is almost certain that written into the contract would be a clause that any balance would be immediately payable if the player moves on. It`s was happened when Cesc came to us from Barca in that there was money still owed to Arsenal about £5.6 million was paid.

The amortised value of a player, £18 million in the case of Torres sounds correct, continues to written off over the period of a loan to another club .

If indeed by loaning Torres out we aren`t paying any wage or compensation to him we will be saving in the region of £150k a week or about £8 million a year and say we do indeed sign Remy on say a 3 year deal paying £8.5 million on a wage of say £75k a week then in accounting terms it works out to the clubs advantage

Lots of what's maybes and ifs but sometimes two and two really do equal four

Edited by terraloon
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I don't think anyone knows why we (Roman) bought him in the first place, or why he suffered such a catastrophic loss of form. Learn lessons and move on I guess. At least Costa looks every inch a PL player, which is more than can be said for di Maria and a few other big money buys.

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I don't understand people who say he is the worst signing of our history, that he was the one who appointed Rafa who ''left a blemish on this club'' , that his corner in the CL final means nothing and that he is the reason Drogba didn't negotiate a new contract and why Sturridge left

 

''He summed up how he felt about this club by refusing to score against liverpool'' ?

 

I'm sorry bet get your head out of your ass and be realistic for a second.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a big fan of him as a player, but he wore the shirt for 3 years, was he overpriced? Yes. Was he a flop? Yes. Does he deserve to be hated for it his whole life, or his whole career for that matter? No. He didn't buy himself, why are you not writing a long letter of hate towards the club's board who acquired him? What corner would Mata have taken if Torres hadn't earned it?

 

And I'm sorry but this completely blows my bloody mind. Torres is the reason Drogba didn't negotiate a new contract? I'm not even responding to that.

 

Which brings us to Rafa, and of the most humiliating periods of my tenure as a Chelsea supporter, not because an ex-liverpool manager who had said some bad things about Chelsea before was our manager, but because the way the fans reacted to it. You buy a ticket to a chelsea game only to go and boo the team? What kind of fan are you? Was I excited to see him at the helm? No, but I still supported him because you know what he was the one at the helm of the club I'm supporting, and if you let a spanish waiter change that than you deserve to be a scouser.

 

After 3 years I'd have hoped people would have gotten over trying to blame every little thing we have done wrong on Torres, he went out there and played even when non of the fans supported him, and I applaud him for that, he didn' to that well, but I am thankful he went out there because the day I will not support a player that wears the blue shirt will be the day I stop being a Chelsea supporter.

 

- rant over

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Oh, I left out why he didn't score against liverpool,

 

If Frankie would play against as in a City uniform and in a clear scoring chance would pass the ball would you write a letter of hate to him?

 

Dear lord, I'm 17 and I make more sense than you.

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Admittedly I didn't watch him at Liverpool really, unless it was against us, but I'm surprised people are saying it was obvious he was declining before he joined us. Didn't he score a fantastic brace just a few weeks before signing for us? (Against us wasn't it?!)

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He also scored a hat-trick against QPR whilst playing for us, but one game does not make a season..

 

I didn't watch him before he joined us either, and I don't know whether he was declining or not, I simply stated one game is not enough to base his future towards.

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He also scored a hat-trick against QPR whilst playing for us, but one game does not make a season..

 

I didn't watch him before he joined us either, and I don't know whether he was declining or not, I simply stated one game is not enough to base his future towards.

 

Wasn't 1 game though. In the 1st half ot the season before he joined us he had 9 goals in 23 PL games. So nearly 1 in 2.

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I don't understand people who say he is the worst signing of our history, that he was the one who appointed Rafa who ''left a blemish on this club'' , that his corner in the CL final means nothing and that he is the reason Drogba didn't negotiate a new contract and why Sturridge left

 

''He summed up how he felt about this club by refusing to score against liverpool'' ?

 

I'm sorry bet get your head out of your ass and be realistic for a second.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have never been a big fan of him as a player, but he wore the shirt for 3 years, was he overpriced? Yes. Was he a flop? Yes. Does he deserve to be hated for it his whole life, or his whole career for that matter? No. He didn't buy himself, why are you not writing a long letter of hate towards the club's board who acquired him? What corner would Mata have taken if Torres hadn't earned it?

 

And I'm sorry but this completely blows my bloody mind. Torres is the reason Drogba didn't negotiate a new contract? I'm not even responding to that.

 

Which brings us to Rafa, and of the most humiliating periods of my tenure as a Chelsea supporter, not because an ex-liverpool manager who had said some bad things about Chelsea before was our manager, but because the way the fans reacted to it. You buy a ticket to a chelsea game only to go and boo the team? What kind of fan are you? Was I excited to see him at the helm? No, but I still supported him because you know what he was the one at the helm of the club I'm supporting, and if you let a spanish waiter change that than you deserve to be a scouser.

 

After 3 years I'd have hoped people would have gotten over trying to blame every little thing we have done wrong on Torres, he went out there and played even when non of the fans supported him, and I applaud him for that, he didn' to that well, but I am thankful he went out there because the day I will not support a player that wears the blue shirt will be the day I stop being a Chelsea supporter.

 

- rant over

 

 

He has left, he was a flop, he blocked the progress of much better strikers only due to his wage and transfer amount. I would not have had as much of a problem with him in the squad if he wasn't constantly picked by Carlo, AVB and RdM. There were better options within the squad who deserved to start much more than him. The fact that he pushed for being unquestionable number one after our CL victory, which was not our board's doing. 

 

Our board and Roman bend over backwards to accommodate him - I've said who ever made the decision to have Torres as our first option after our CL victory is to blame. But people shouldn't act like Torres wasn't part of that equation, he puled a strop after our CL victory and our board were more than happy to cripple our chances in the League and CL by only having him as our first choice striker. 

 

His level right now is a rotational striker in a club who might have a chance to qualify for the Europa League, his level has been like that since he joined us. If Lukaku, Sturridge or even Kalou were given as much chances as Torres there is no doubt they would have performed much better overall. Not only that but when our attacking midfield was more confident with the player ahead of themit would have unshackled them and allowed them to play with more confidence. It's clear to everyone now what a striker making runs and constantly scoring can do for a side.

His tally in the League with us is embarrassing, sure when he arrived we didn't have that many creative outlets, but that was quickly changed as we bought so much creative talent that no striker could complain. It's our problem we decided to base this talent around a player who was finished at top level. 

 

The Era of Torres is one of the best examples of nepotism. It was clear after less than an year, that our board should cut their loses but instead they doubled down and we were crippled in the League mainly because of their decision to try and make it work. 

 

 

I've never had a huge problem with Torres as a person, as a player at CFC however he is one of the most frustrating players to put on the blue kit. 

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Those are all valid points Las.

 

But the way I look at it, as a person that is looking to be successful in life, do you expect him to go say to the manager ''hey, I don't think I can score, put me on the bench''?

 

I think he should've been on the bench and it was up to the manager or someone higher than whoever that manager at the time was to deal with it correctly and make it clear to him. It's not like he gave up after five months and laid back collecting his paycheck, he always tried, should he have given the chance to always try? Probably not, but I don't blame him for trying and failing.

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Which is why I don't understand many of the posters here, it's as if you are pissed at him for trying.. He could've flown off to Argentina and played golf for 2 years for all he cared, but he didn't, even at his lowest he always went out on the pitch and at least tried to help the team, he didn't succeed but that's up to the club not him.

Edited by Soulo
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Those are all valid points Las.

 

But the way I look at it, as a person that is looking to be successful in life, do you expect him to go say to the manager ''hey, I don't think I can score, put me on the bench''?

 

I think he should've been on the bench and it was up to the manager or someone higher than whoever that manager at the time was to deal with it correctly and make it clear to him. It's not like he gave up after five months and laid back collecting his paycheck, he always tried, should he have given the chance to always try? Probably not, but I don't blame him for trying and failing.

 

 

Well there was coincidental sackings to every manager that questioned Torres as first choice. AvB compared him to Kezman and Sheva got sacked shortly after; RdM benched him and preferred a false nine sacked shortly after. We finally have a manager with enough authority to not use him and a season later that manager has allowed him to leave. We are likely to sign Remy as replacement and it would be an upgrade over Torres. 

 

Like I said I think there was a lot of nepotism around Torres and our board were making decision based on what would make him return some of the investment instead of concentrating on actually winning things. Carroll was also a huge flop but at least the Pool board didn't persist with him and got rid of him at the first opportunity.

 

I don't question his effort, for a striker effort is not important putting the ball in the back of the net is. Players like Berbatov are able to build a whole career despite never seemingly making a huge effort, because they provide plenty to the side. Torres never provided enough, considering the amount of time and effort we wasted in trying to make it work his time was frustrating for fans to say the least. 

Edited by Las7
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Well there was coincidental sackings to every manager that questioned Torres as first choice. AvB compared him to Kezman and Sheva got sacked shortly after; RdM benched him and preferred a false nine sacked shortly after. We finally have a manager with enough authority to not use him and a season later that manager has allowed him to leave. We are likely to sign Remy as replacement and it would be an upgrade over Torres. 

 

Like I said I think there was a lot of nepotism around Torres and our board were making decision based on what would make him return some of the investment instead of concentrating on actually winning things. Carroll was also a huge flop but at least the Pool board didn't persist with him and got rid of him at the first opportunity.

 

I agree, and I think it's ridiculous that people are insisting that he had enough power to sack 3 managers. He would not have missed all those chances had he not been given the chance to play, so how can you blame him for that?

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