Eden Hazard - Chelsea Legend

[mclovin83]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

So a manager can't teach a player how to be better, even though that's literally his job? What's the point in having one then. 

A manager with a reputation of teaching attacking football, improve an attacking player? 

Madness. 

[Ready Player One]

9 minutes ago, mclovin83 said:

1. You really aren't qualified to make such a sweeping statement.  Do you really believe that a player can only learn & improve from a Manager, if said Manager is better than said player at the facet of the game they are working on? 

Firstly, yes. The players here didn't listen to AVB because they were Frank Lampard and John Terry and Didier Drogba and who the hell was he? Did he have good ideas? Yes, actually. But they knew better. Because, well, look who they were. Look what they'd done. 

Secondly, Players are what they are. You can tell (for example) Azpilicueta to attack more, but his first thought will always be defending. It's not only who he is, and the way he thinks, it's what he's best at and he knows that. Players aren't robots following instructions. And a lot of our players are incredibly experienced. Moreso than a former accountant who has never done it outside Italy (and didn't really do it there). I want Sarri to succeed, and I like his ideas, but he isn't going to "teach" the majority of these players. 

Thirdly, all those having a go at me because I don't think Eden Hazard will be the exact same Eden Hazard he has been at the end of this season as he has been his entire time here...that's why I don't post here very much, and I don't expect you'll be apologising when I'm right.

He may do a few more one-twos if you put more players around him to play them with him...but he will always drop deep, he will always dwell on the ball, and he won't score or assist significantly more. He is what he is and he plays how he plays, and you're not going to change him. Mourinho and Conte and Wilmots were always on at him "do this, do that, score more, get in those positions". Often publicly. Did he change? Nope. 

I apologise if you disagree or think this is a wind-up. Just ignore it either way. Thanks. 

[mclovin83]

3 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

Firstly, yes. The players here didn't listen to AVB because they were Frank Lampard and John Terry and Didier Drogba and who the hell was he? Did he have good ideas? Yes, actually. But they knew better. Because, well, look who they were. Look what they'd done. 

Secondly, Players are what they are. You can tell (for example) Azpilicueta to attack more, but his first thought will always be defending. It's not only who he is, and the way he thinks, it's what he's best at and he knows that. Players aren't robots following instructions. And a lot of our players are incredibly experienced. Moreso than a former accountant who has never done it outside Italy (and didn't really do it there). I want Sarri to succeed, and I like his ideas, but he isn't going to "teach" the majority of these players. 

Thirdly, all those having a go at me because I don't think Eden Hazard will be the exact same Eden Hazard he has been at the end of this season as he has been his entire time here...that's why I don't post here very much, and I don't expect you'll be apologising when I'm right.

He may do a few more one-twos if you put more players around him to play them with him...but he will always drop deep, he will always dwell on the ball, and he won't score or assist significantly more. He is what he is and he plays how he plays, and you're not going to change him. Mourinho and Conte and Wilmots were always on at him "do this, do that, score more, get in those positions". Often publicly. Did he change? Nope. 

I apologise if you disagree or think this is a wind-up. Just ignore it either way. Thanks. 

Now we are getting to the heart of the issue.....

[Kentonio]

1 hour ago, Ready Player One said:

1. Sarri can't teach anything to Eden. He wouldn't know how. 

2. When it comes to being a top quality attacking player, Hazard will be the one telling Sarri what he needs, not the other way round. Sarri will be learning from Eden. How could he not?

3. Even if Sarri did tell Eden what to do, he would at most pay lip-service, and at worst, simply not listen. He knows what he is and how he wants to play. Sarri's job is to set up a system to get the best out of that. You're not going to change him at this point.

These could well be the 3 most mental things I've ever read here. Seriously. Sarri is one of the most advanced attacking coaches in Europe. It's literally his job to teach players how to play in a way that advances their potential and makes them perform at a level above where they currently are. Some of the most legendary coaches in the game have called him a genius and a revolutionary for his ability to do exactly that, yet you think he has nothing to teach Eden?

You should really take yourself outside and have a word.

[dkw]

56 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

Firstly, yes. The players here didn't listen to AVB because they were Frank Lampard and John Terry and Didier Drogba and who the hell was he? Did he have good ideas? Yes, actually. But they knew better. Because, well, look who they were. Look what they'd done. 

 

So exactly the same as when Jose came then. That went quite well.

[Xfaxtor]

2 hours ago, big blue said:

Salah is very different to hazard though.

Hazard is a playmaker, he is always involved in the build up, and he drops deep, and moves into little pockets of space, so he can get on the ball and make things happen. He is a natural number 10. It's probably one of the reasons why he doesn't score as many goals as he should, given he is probably the best finisher at the club. 

Salah is all about pace, he needs space to run into, so klopp is clever and he keeps Salah on the last man, and it's Firmino who comes short. In effect he plays like a wide forward. 

I think hazard could used in a similar role to what Salah plays, but it would go against his natural instinct in my opinion. Maybe now we have a better supporting cast in midfield, hazard will try and play further forward, but he that with Belgium team, and he stills drops deep. 

Good points, I wasnt trying to say Haz is like Salah. Just that like Salah he will be given spesific tactical instructions om how to operate to maximise his talent.

[Ready Player One]

1 hour ago, mclovin83 said:

Now we are getting to the heart of the issue.....

I have no axe to grind against Sarri. I hope he does well. I like a lot of his ideas. He is relatively unproven by the standards of manager we have had recently however. Which could be a good thing in many ways. Time will tell. 

52 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

These could well be the 3 most mental things I've ever read here. Seriously. Sarri is one of the most advanced attacking coaches in Europe. It's literally his job to teach players how to play in a way that advances their potential and makes them perform at a level above where they currently are.

Hazard is one of the top attacking players in the world. He is 27, not 20. He's not going to significantly change under any manager. Why would he? 

Sarri's job is to get the best out of these players, to find the tactics that work. Not to "teach" them (although there are players at the club he can certainly mould in certain ways). If you think someone who has won literally nothing is going to "teach" Eden Hazard then you are in for a surprise IMO.

FWIW, I think he is on the right track with getting far more players up the pitch than Conte (I think Hazard was frustrated by Conte's preference for numbers in defence rather than attack) and by preferring 1-2 touch, short-passing football with lots of movement, which I think will suit Hazard. 

Of course, this is based on the idea that Hazard is so far and away our best player, and we are so desperate to keep him, that we will build around him, and do things like make him the captain and give him free reign. That could be incorrect. 

I apologise again if you think I am being unreasonable. Or am winding you up. Or mad. Or weird. Or mental. Or need to go outside and have a word with myself. 

53 minutes ago, dkw said:

So exactly the same as when Jose came then. That went quite well.

Players who have won nothing are a bit more likely to listen. Especially when the manager is coming off two trebles in two years. 

If anyone (Sarri, Conte and Jose included) went to Barcelona and told Messi where to stand...he'd laugh at them. He's Messi. When Pep told Messi where to stand, Messi did it. Not because Pep was a big deal (he wasn't at the time) but because Messi was even less of a big deal. Once Messi knew what he was, how to be effective, how he wanted to play, no-one was going to come in and say "Lionel...stop dropping into midfield, I want you to be here, not there...". You build around him. Because he's Messi. 

IMO. 

[Kentonio]

5 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

If anyone (Sarri, Conte and Jose included) went to Barcelona and told Messi where to stand...he'd laugh at them. He's Messi. When Pep told Messi where to stand, Messi did it. Not because Pep was a big deal (he wasn't at the time) but because Messi was even less of a big deal. Once Messi knew what he was, how to be effective, how he wanted to play, no-one was going to come in and say "Lionel...stop dropping into midfield, I want you to be here, not there...". You build around him. Because he's Messi.

Building around a player doesn't mean the player can just do what they want, and the manager will just let them. We're talking about a professional sport worth billions of pounds, and managers and head coaches on multi-million pound salaries. No-one is that good that they could get away with just totally ignoring the manager of their club and doing whatever they want, not even Messi. Building around a player just means the coach builds around that players strengths, including potentially giving them more freedom than normal to play to those strengths. Remember when Jose made Eden track back more? Did Eden just laugh in his face and ignore him?

Edited August 16, 2018 by Kentonio

[Ready Player One]

5 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

Building around a player doesn't mean the player can just do what they want, and the manager will just let them. We're talking about a professional sport worth billions of pounds, and managers and head coaches on multi-million pound salaries. No-one is that good that they could get away with just totally ignoring the manager of their club and doing whatever they want, not even Messi. Building around a player just means the coach builds around that players strengths, including potentially giving them more freedom than normal to play to those strengths. Remember when Jose made Eden track back more? Did Eden just laugh in his face and ignore him?

Well, you certainly don't tell Messi or Ronaldo or Neymar to do things they don't like, or think aren't the correct way to utilise them, and expect to keep your job. These guys have their own ideas about how to play football. I think Eden does too. I think it's the trade off managers have to make with immense talents. No player is a robot, and that is true of the very best players most of all. 

The bolded bit...honestly? I think the reason we played Azpilicueta at LB was because he was the purest defender at the club and Jose didn't expect Eden to track back even if he told him to. I also think Matic was supposed to pick up that slack as well. I think Eden played lip service to it. But that is just my opinion. Jose did mention it however. 

"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/jose-mourino-eden-hazard-chelsea-sacrifice-himself

[JMaher94]

3 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

Firstly, yes. The players here didn't listen to AVB because they were Frank Lampard and John Terry and Didier Drogba and who the hell was he? Did he have good ideas? Yes, actually. But they knew better. Because, well, look who they were. Look what they'd done. 

Secondly, Players are what they are. You can tell (for example) Azpilicueta to attack more, but his first thought will always be defending. It's not only who he is, and the way he thinks, it's what he's best at and he knows that. Players aren't robots following instructions. And a lot of our players are incredibly experienced. Moreso than a former accountant who has never done it outside Italy (and didn't really do it there). I want Sarri to succeed, and I like his ideas, but he isn't going to "teach" the majority of these players. 

Thirdly, all those having a go at me because I don't think Eden Hazard will be the exact same Eden Hazard he has been at the end of this season as he has been his entire time here...that's why I don't post here very much, and I don't expect you'll be apologising when I'm right.

He may do a few more one-twos if you put more players around him to play them with him...but he will always drop deep, he will always dwell on the ball, and he won't score or assist significantly more. He is what he is and he plays how he plays, and you're not going to change him. Mourinho and Conte and Wilmots were always on at him "do this, do that, score more, get in those positions". Often publicly. Did he change? Nope. 

I apologise if you disagree or think this is a wind-up. Just ignore it either way. Thanks. 

Whilst I agree with the parts in bold, Hazard will assist and score more under Sarri.

Simply because we will have more of the ball in the opposition half meaning Eden will have more chances to create and score, that's just basic knowledge.

Look at the likes of Sterling who isn't even half the player Eden is, but managed to notch a very good return last season simply because of the system he was in.

Mourinho, Conte and Wilmots are all pragmatic coaches who won't get the very best out of their attackers. Insigne, Callejon and Mertens scored an impressive number of goals under Sarri and once again, they're not on the same level as Eden. Would Mourinho, Conte etc get those sort of numbers with those players? Doubt it.

I'm sure only Drogba in 09/10 is our only striker in the Abramovich era to score more than 20+ league goals in a Premier League season which kind of sums up the pragmatic tactics we've had at the Bridge since Roman arrived.

[PedroMendez]

57 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

I have no axe to grind against Sarri. I hope he does well. I like a lot of his ideas. He is relatively unproven by the standards of manager we have had recently however. Which could be a good thing in many ways. Time will tell. 

Hazard is one of the top attacking players in the world. He is 27, not 20. He's not going to significantly change under any manager. Why would he? 

Sarri's job is to get the best out of these players, to find the tactics that work. Not to "teach" them (although there are players at the club he can certainly mould in certain ways). If you think someone who has won literally nothing is going to "teach" Eden Hazard then you are in for a surprise IMO.

FWIW, I think he is on the right track with getting far more players up the pitch than Conte (I think Hazard was frustrated by Conte's preference for numbers in defence rather than attack) and by preferring 1-2 touch, short-passing football with lots of movement, which I think will suit Hazard. 

Of course, this is based on the idea that Hazard is so far and away our best player, and we are so desperate to keep him, that we will build around him, and do things like make him the captain and give him free reign. That could be incorrect. 

I apologise again if you think I am being unreasonable. Or am winding you up. Or mad. Or weird. Or mental. Or need to go outside and have a word with myself. 

Players who have won nothing are a bit more likely to listen. Especially when the manager is coming off two trebles in two years. 

If anyone (Sarri, Conte and Jose included) went to Barcelona and told Messi where to stand...he'd laugh at them. He's Messi. When Pep told Messi where to stand, Messi did it. Not because Pep was a big deal (he wasn't at the time) but because Messi was even less of a big deal. Once Messi knew what he was, how to be effective, how he wanted to play, no-one was going to come in and say "Lionel...stop dropping into midfield, I want you to be here, not there...". You build around him. Because he's Messi. 

IMO. 

So all coaches are irrelevant use golf or tennis as an example even the best players in the world have an individual coach who will advise them and in most cases improve their game by providing an on lookers perspective at their technique, mentality, physique, etc. it's very hard to provide yourselves with meaningful analysis of your own performance or improve your own game.

And that is just in individual sports its even harder in a team sport, if you aren't taking advice from the coach or learning his tactics you aren't going to understand where or when to press, who is going to be covering you where and what runs or space your team mates are going to make. Players don't have 360 vision or the ability to read their team mates minds. Coaching and familiarity of movements massively help any player or team and usually the general movement seen on the pitch are brought about by coaching and repetition.  

No player is above being able to improve their game and its much easier to do so if you are listening, understanding and engaging with your coach. I can only imagine you have never really played sport in any sort of structured team otherwise you would understand why this is of massive benefit. 

Sterling is a great example of someone who has massively improved his game by listening to his coach and understanding how he needs to play in that City team to get the best out of his ability. 

Hazard is a great player with a lot of individual skill but he can certainly improve especially with his work and movement off the ball which is something Sarri will hopefully improve massively as he has done with Insigne, Mertens and Callejon. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by PedroMendez

[theone]

38 minutes ago, Ready Player One said:

Well, you certainly don't tell Messi or Ronaldo or Neymar to do things they don't like, or think aren't the correct way to utilise them, and expect to keep your job. These guys have their own ideas about how to play football. I think Eden does too. I think it's the trade off managers have to make with immense talents. No player is a robot, and that is true of the very best players most of all. 

The bolded bit...honestly? I think the reason we played Azpilicueta at LB was because he was the purest defender at the club and Jose didn't expect Eden to track back even if he told him to. I also think Matic was supposed to pick up that slack as well. I think Eden played lip service to it. But that is just my opinion. Jose did mention it however. 

"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/jose-mourino-eden-hazard-chelsea-sacrifice-himself

i agree with you to some extent, players like Messi Ronaldo are too much of a threat while attacking so they can afford to be less involved in defending. 

every player has positives and negatives its up to the manager to make whole team better than the sum of it parts. Ferguson's was a master in that, his teams consisted of average players but was one of the best teams in the league 

Messi for Barca is totally different than he is for Argentina. you dont think manager has any role in that 

[Kev56]

[Ready Player One]

14 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

I can only imagine you have never really played sport in any sort of structured team otherwise you would understand why this is of massive benefit.

Ok. TBH I was thinking something similar, but I wasn't going to insult anyone by saying it.

Coaches can tell you whatever they want. But if you can't do it, don't want to do it, don't think it's right, think your way is better, or think (know) that you know more than your coach...then it won't matter what is said. If you know you do something well, or you think it's the right thing to do...you do it. A coach also needs to have some kind of authority, and I don't think Sarri has a position of authority to "teach" Hazard any more than AVB did to "teach" Lampard or Terry. 

Change is more about seeing untapped aspects to your game, a coach can help with that, but really, you're the one doing that work. If you don't want to do that work, then you won't change. Look at Ronaldo. I don't think he is at the top level because of the coaching he has received since he was 22-23. I think he did that, through his own work ethic, intelligence and desire to be the best. 

And at a certain level, the very top level, where we find guys like Hazard, coaching is more about "maintaining a level" and not changing fundamentals. 

I don't see any particularly "coaching" you could give to Eden Hazard to make him better. I would say I don't agree with his mentality, but if coaches like Jose or Conte can't make him change that, I doubt he will. At this point, he is what he is. And, TBF "what he is" is one of the very best players in the world. 

It's not just mentality. Take Amir Khan. You could give him the best defensive coach in the world in Virgil Hunter, train him to jab and move for literally years, and he's still going to revert into a wide-open brawler the first time he takes a tap, and get sparked the first time anyone lands clean. Under pressure, you go back to what you know. 

2 minutes ago, theone said:

Messi for Barca is totally different than he is for Argentina. you dont think manager has any role in that 

TBH I think a lot of that is that Barca is set-up perfectly for him, with players who are literally there to compliment him, while Argentina is whatever Argentinians are available. I also think he has been very, very good for Argentina; and his contribution is under-rated. 

I certainly don't think the difference in level is down to coaching he gets in those few weeks he's with the Argentina squad. 

35 minutes ago, JMaher94 said:

Simply because we will have more of the ball in the opposition half meaning Eden will have more chances to create and score, that's just basic knowledge.

Fair enough. I do think a more attacking system will suit him more. I think he will enjoy himself more, and hopefully be more productive. 

I don't think Sarri will "teach" him, but hopefully he can unlock him a bit by making our tactics more about him. So fair point. 

[PedroMendez]

1 hour ago, Ready Player One said:

Ok. TBH I was thinking something similar, but I wasn't going to insult anyone by saying it.

Coaches can tell you whatever they want. But if you can't do it, don't want to do it, don't think it's right, think your way is better, or think (know) that you know more than your coach...then it won't matter what is said. If you know you do something well, or you think it's the right thing to do...you do it. A coach also needs to have some kind of authority, and I don't think Sarri has a position of authority to "teach" Hazard any more than AVB did to "teach" Lampard or Terry. 

Change is more about seeing untapped aspects to your game, a coach can help with that, but really, you're the one doing that work. If you don't want to do that work, then you won't change. Look at Ronaldo. I don't think he is at the top level because of the coaching he has received since he was 22-23. I think he did that, through his own work ethic, intelligence and desire to be the best. 

And at a certain level, the very top level, where we find guys like Hazard, coaching is more about "maintaining a level" and not changing fundamentals. 

I don't see any particularly "coaching" you could give to Eden Hazard to make him better. I would say I don't agree with his mentality, but if coaches like Jose or Conte can't make him change that, I doubt he will. At this point, he is what he is. And, TBF "what he is" is one of the very best players in the world. 

It's not just mentality. Take Amir Khan. You could give him the best defensive coach in the world in Virgil Hunter, train him to jab and move for literally years, and he's still going to revert into a wide-open brawler the first time he takes a tap, and get sparked the first time anyone lands clean. Under pressure, you go back to what you know. 

I apologise for the dig it was unnecessary, and tbh I have probably taken what you have said in a more extreme context than it was meant, as I had taken what you had said to mean that Hazard game will not improve through training if it is being held by Sarri.  

And I half get your point above in that it will be Hazard doing that work and if he doesn't want to do that work he won't necessarily improve but in reality all he has to do is turn up to training and runs the drills with the team whilst being semi engaged, he wouldn't even need to listen to instruction as naturally his cohesion with his team mates will improve and he will start to understand their movements and where space is being created etc and yes this doesn't need to be attributed to the coach but purely getting that familiarity with your team mates will improve your game. You could plonk Hazard in any team and he will be a great player but give him time understanding that team and style of play and he will perform better than he would without it.   

Personally as someone who has played in both a structured environment training twice a week and environments where we wouldn't train and would just turn up to games, the contrast between having training sessions and not is huge. The talent of the players in the team which doesn't train is far higher than some of the 'structured' teams I have played for but I guarantee they will lose if they come up against them as whilst they are less talented they are so much more cohesive. 

Also I don't expect Sarri to physically coach Hazard into being a much better player, however I do expect Hazards game to improve under Sarri's style of football and coaching as more movement from his teammates will give him more space and less attention, which in turn might improve Hazards own off the ball movements.

 

[mclovin83]

4 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

I have no axe to grind against Sarri.

Yet you felt it necessary to bring up his past as an accountant when debating whether Hazard could improve under him. And of course the fact he hasn't won anything. 

I think both those facts are irrelevant as to whether he can teach a player something. Poch hasn't won anything, so what? Can he not improve players either? As I say, it's irrelevant. 

You are very dismissive towards Sarri; you literally speak about him as if he has just stumbled across the road from the bank and started taking a training session. He is where he is for a reason. The same reason he gained plaudits from some of the best Managers and players in the world. Maybe, just maybe, players will take to him and be excited to what he can bring, and subsequently flourish under his system. 

I think we are all aware of what he has/hasn't done in his career; you don't need to bring up what he was doing for work 13 years ago to try and make your point. 

You also seem a bit obsessed with Hazard being the same as Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar. 

"Well, you certainly don't tell Messi or Ronaldo or Neymar to do things they don't like"

Great, none of them play for us so that's not really a massive problem. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by mclovin83

[Hazard10]

Just Sarri kneeing Hazard in the balls...

Edited August 16, 2018 by Hazard10

[charierre]

I'm pretty sure Hazard will play to instructions from the coach, there is no i in team and the one thing we know about Eden is he very much part of the team structure. Can he learn from the coach... of course he can, he like every one of us are learning things daily. Remember as Cruyff  said 'players on average have the ball 3 mins per match, its not those three minutes that make them a great player but the 87 minutes they don't have the ball' 

[Ready Player One]

3 hours ago, PedroMendez said:

Personally as someone who has played in both a structured environment training twice a week and environments where we wouldn't train and would just turn up to games, the contrast between having training sessions and not is huge. The talent of the players in the team which doesn't train is far higher than some of the 'structured' teams I have played for but I guarantee they will lose if they come up against them as whilst they are less talented they are so much more cohesive. 

Also I don't expect Sarri to physically coach Hazard into being a much better player, however I do expect Hazards game to improve under Sarri's style of football and coaching as more movement from his teammates will give him more space and less attention, which in turn might improve Hazards own off the ball movements.

While I take your point, Hazard will have been training almost every day since he was 10 (maybe longer depending on the system he came through) and he has been training at our club, under some of the best managers in the world, since 2012. 

Eden came back on what? The Monday/Tuesday before the season started? He's worked under Sarri for 3/4 days, comes off the bench and he's so blazingly obviously the best player on the pitch that it's unreal. Sarri didn't teach him that. He IS that. Sarri should be working on the tactics that provide him a platform. FWIW I think he is. 

He's's not going to come here and tell everyone to play like whatever player he had at Napoli did. Particularly Eden. Well, I hope he's not. When people suggest that, I'm sorta reminded of the story of Moyes at Utd telling Vidic and Ferdinand to play more like Jaglieka. I think Sarri is smart enough not to do that sort of thing. 

I definitely agree that Sarri's style will suit what Hazard wants to do more than Conte's style or Jose's style. In fact, I somewhat suspect that his appointment was (at least partly) because of Hazard and the sort of football he wants the team to play. Not because he can "teach" Hazard, but because his style of football will suit Hazard. 

3 hours ago, mclovin83 said:

1. Yet you felt it necessary to bring up his past as an accountant when debating whether Hazard could improve under him. And of course the fact he hasn't won anything. 

I think both those facts are irrelevant

2. You are very dismissive towards Sarri; you literally speak about him as if he has just stumbled across the road from the bank and started taking a training session.

3. You also seem a bit obsessed with Hazard being the same as Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar. 

4. "Well, you certainly don't tell Messi or Ronaldo or Neymar to do things they don't like"

Great, none of them play for us so that's not really a massive problem. 

1. Well. They are certainly facts. I'm sorry you don't like me bringing them up. 

2. I don't think I do. Actually, I like what Sarri wants to do. I'm looking forward to this season. 

I do worry that he may not be pragmatic or experienced enough for this role. I think there will be periods this season where we will need to abandon our (his) principles a bit (particularly the "knocking it about in deep areas to invite teams onto us" tactic). And I think we have a few players who don't fit what Sarri wants to do (noticeably up-front). Pragmatism will definitely be required to work around that IMO. As much as he needs to "teach" certain players, I think he needs to learn about, and from, these players. 

3. No. I think they are comparable as examples of the top players in the world, guys who are clearly above other players at their clubs. "The Man", so to speak. At Chelsea Hazard is "The Man". And if we want to keep him, we should probably be pandering to him as those players are pandered to. 

4. Well, we've literally had two managers who have been "expert tacticians" piss off the players to such an extent that there has pretty much been an open rebellion. Twice in a row. I wouldn't walk into that scenario and tell our best player he is doing it all wrong. Sarri certainly doesn't have the status to do that. And I don't think he will. That would be AVB levels of stupid with the same result that AVB got IMO. 
 
Just IMO. It's OK if your's differs. It's all good. 

28 minutes ago, charierre said:

Remember as Cruyff  said 'players on average have the ball 3 mins per match, its not those three minutes that make them a great player but the 87 minutes they don't have the ball' 

Cruyff was basically the definition of a brilliant maverick, and the concept of total football was essentially invented to facilitate players like him drifting wherever they wanted. 

[Kentonio]

9 hours ago, Ready Player One said:

Sarri certainly doesn't have the status to do that.

Arrigo Sacchi: "When you see Sarri’s teams play, you know how they train. He is a genius."

Pep Guardiola: “I have no doubts that Sarri is one of the best managers out there. He achieved something incredible with Napoli.”

Fabio Cappello: “Every 20 years there is an innovation in football. After Ajax there was Sacchi’s Milan, then Guardiola, who rather sent football to sleep. Fortunately now we’ve got Sarri, who can wake football up again.”

Sarri may be a relative newcomer to top level football, but to say he doesn't have status overlooks the massive regard he's held in by some of the greatest managers the game has seen.

[enigma]

Almost like Sarri didn't improve the majority of that Napoli side lol. By many accounts Benitez left that Napoli side worse off and playing inferior football. Sarri comes in, made radical changes to the style and brought in a couple players like Allan and Reina, then for the following three seasons got Napoli playing some of the best football in Europe, along with improving players like Koulibaly, Jorginho, Allan, Ghoulam (to name a few) to a point where football experts were calling those players world class. I'm pretty positive those same players weren't being called that before Sarri joined. Of course it's the coach's job to improve players and to fit square pegs into square holes. As much as Mourinho was a fantastic manager in the early days of our takeover and the years following, football has seen a change in attitude and tactics.

Mourinho is a great manager, but when he was here he made many mistakes with players at his disposal and it was crazy. As well as not giving enough chances to the likes of Lukaku or KDB, he played Azpilicueta at LB when we had signed Felipe Luis (called world class before we signed him) and then continued with an aging Ivanovic at RB, which would go on to cost us time and time again defensively. You have to improve the players at your disposal, not chuck them to the curb because they aren't what you think they should be. 

[Kentonio]

30 minutes ago, enigma said:

he played Azpilicueta at LB when we had signed Felipe Luis (called world class before we signed him) and then continued with an aging Ivanovic at RB, which would go on to cost us time and time again defensively. You have to improve the players at your disposal, not chuck them to the curb because they aren't what you think they should be. 

I agree with the rest, but on this one point I do have some sympathy with him. Dave and Brana were incredible that year, and it would have been difficult to justify dropping either of them when they were probably the best FB partnership in the world that season.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Kentonio

[mclovin83]

3 hours ago, Kentonio said:

Arrigo Sacchi: "When you see Sarri’s teams play, you know how they train. He is a genius."

Pep Guardiola: “I have no doubts that Sarri is one of the best managers out there. He achieved something incredible with Napoli.”

Fabio Cappello: “Every 20 years there is an innovation in football. After Ajax there was Sacchi’s Milan, then Guardiola, who rather sent football to sleep. Fortunately now we’ve got Sarri, who can wake football up again.”

Sarri may be a relative newcomer to top level football, but to say he doesn't have status overlooks the massive regard he's held in by some of the greatest managers the game has seen.

 

But.... but....... but...... he worked in a bank 13 years ago, so Eden Hazard won't even talk to him at Cobham. 

[Semper Fi]

Sarri? You mean the Bank Teller down the street?  

[dansubrosa]

17 hours ago, Hazard10 said:

Just Sarri kneeing Hazard in the balls...

Maybe he’s trying to stop Hazard from getting some Spanish woman pregnant