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Van Ginkel to Chelsea


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We are deploying him too deep for my liking, he will do more damage in a box-to-box role.

 

For the greater good! 

 

Being brutally honest our holding midfield looked rubbish on quite a few occasions last season, van Ginkel has looked pretty confident and assured in the role so far and seems to be working well in tandem with Ramires.

 

The problem before was that when playing Lampard and Ramires both wanted to bomb forward too much, Lampard and Mikel looked too short of pace and although Mikel and Ramires was the most balanced, they sometimes lacked the passing ability to unlock stubborn defenses.

 

van Ginkel looks like he is going to give us something different, at only 20 I wasn't expecting too much from him but based on pre-season performances I think he is going to play a lot more than I first thought.  

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Then who do you play deep? And please dont say Mikel! The boy is doing a good job where he is and Jose sees something in him so lets just trust Jose to play him where ever he sees fit

 

That's just it, I don't think we need to play someone who is the designated defensive/holding midfielder in every game, especially at home.

 

So many occasions when playing at home, in my opinion, there is no point playing Mikel because he doesn't have a lot to do because the opposition is generally sitting quite deep.

 

A midfield pairing of van Ginkel and Ramires would have a lot more pace and movement to it then we had last season and working together I think they could cause the opposition a lot of problems. 

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everyone was crying out for new centre mid, me included (even after we signed mvg), but ive been impressed enough that im happy to go into the season with what we have. Unless there was a surprise departure of Mikel or essien, then another midfielder would be overkill.

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Don't know what instructions he has been given but from the video it looks like he has been told to sit deeper. Isn't that essentially what happened when we got Mikel and look how that turned out, no doubt MVG can do a job deeper but I don't think he will be as effectivemor probably fulfill his potentials unless he is allowed to make forays into the opposition half.

Agreed ForeverCarefree a pairing of MVG and Ramires is the best we have at present, but I feel it will be more effective if you have both of them alternating between sitting and going forward. Issue is; Is Ramires disciplined enough to play in that way.

Agreed Big Blue but we will get picked apart by the mid of City, Spurs, Swansea, Southampton and Arsenal if they get Gustavo IMO. What we have is 4 box to box mid and 1 DM if you class Mikel as one, looks unbalanced to me and Mikel will be the last person I will lose as things stand. We either get in a tackler who breaks up play (Gustavo, Capoue) or a passer with top notch distribution ( Modric), or we will struggle against top teams and face the same problems as last season, a slow & static midfield.

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there is no chance were getting picked apart by Southampton and swansea. Both are good passing sides but we would still dominate against them.

With regards the likes of city and arsenal, I think we will go 433 and play mvg ramires and mikel in there, and hit them on the counter attack especially sway from home.

If we are going to start using our youth team and show more forward thinking in the transfer market. It would surely be beneficial to wait until next summer when essien and possibly lampard leave the club at the end of their contracts. At that point chalobah will hopefully be ready for the first team and we can go and splash biggish money on a top midfielder without hampering other players development. I can see our midfield will then consist of mikel, ramires, van ginkel, chalobah, and hopefully someone like gundogan.

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I share some if your concern, ducavis. The best defensive midfielders of the last decade, from Makelele to De Rossi to Javi Martinez, all cut their teeth in box to box attacking roles. The standard that Makelele set was that a defensive midfielder could no longer be a headless chook running around chopping people down but a skilled passer and creator and ability to influence the game in both an attacking and defensive sense.

Part of the development of such a player is learning, free of pressure, how to create and instigate attacking moves. I don't think The Gink is going to learn that if he's under constant pressure not to make mistakes in a defensive role at a top club. The end result is a Mikel/McEachran sort of player with lots of ability but little ambition

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I share some if your concern, ducavis. The best defensive midfielders of the last decade, from Makelele to De Rossi to Javi Martinez, all cut their teeth in box to box attacking roles. The standard that Makelele set was that a defensive midfielder could no longer be a headless chook running around chopping people down but a skilled passer and creator and ability to influence the game in both an attacking and defensive sense.

Part of the development of such a player is learning, free of pressure, how to create and instigate attacking moves. I don't think The Gink is going to learn that if he's under constant pressure not to make mistakes in a defensive role at a top club. The end result is a Mikel/McEachran sort of player with lots of ability but little ambition

He's not being ask to play as a strictly defensive midfielder though. In 4231 he plays as one of 2 box to box midfielders, where both join the attack at different times.

If he plays next to mikel or essien he would be the one who attacks more often, and if paired with ramires or lampard. He would get forward less.

Busquets and xabi alonso have always played defensive midfield and they probably been the best 2 over the last 6/7 seasons. Mceachran has hardly played any games in dm so I dont think you can level a lack ambition in his game because of this.

I understand people having concerns because of mikel, but I dont think mikel playing dm for us has limited his game. Im not gonna start slating mikel because I actually do rate him at dm. But if he was naturally an ambitious passer and had a more expansive attacking game, surely we would have seen evidence of it, especially when he was younger, before as you suggest it was coached out of him.

Mvg has the potential and the environment to be a world class midfielder, whether he reaches that potential will be more down to himself, than the club asking him to lay a slightly withdrawn role.

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I think he's very suited for the box-to-box role. He's complete as a midfielder, got skills, runs for 90mins and continues to chase his direct opponents. He just needs to show what he can do in an attack. I have seen it from him when he was playing with Vitesse, but he seems to be holding back at Chelsea. 

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To be fair to him, its very difficult to show your attacking flair when you are behind Mata, Hazard and Oscar. They are the main attacking points in our team. Since changing from 4-3-3 even the great Lampard hasnt quite reached the level we had expected from him. It must be tough to get forward when you have a bank of 3 and then a striker all in front of you wanting the ball.

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That's just it, I don't think we need to play someone who is the designated defensive/holding midfielder in every game, especially at home.

 

So many occasions when playing at home, in my opinion, there is no point playing Mikel because he doesn't have a lot to do because the opposition is generally sitting quite deep.

 

A midfield pairing of van Ginkel and Ramires would have a lot more pace and movement to it then we had last season and working together I think they could cause the opposition a lot of problems. 

 

That would be a mistake. Agreed that the opposition teams generally sit quite deep at the Bridge but that's no reason for us to drop our guard. We may find ourselves at the receiving end of a few "smash and grab" losses if the team gets too attack minded without defensive protection in front of the back 4. Wouldn't like to be at the receiving end of the same methods used against Barca in the CL semi 2012.

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That would be a mistake. Agreed that the opposition teams generally sit quite deep at the Bridge but that's no reason for us to drop our guard. We may find ourselves at the receiving end of a few "smash and grab" losses if the team gets too attack minded without defensive protection in front of the back 4. Wouldn't like to be at the receiving end of the same methods used against Barca in the CL semi 2012.

 

But you're going to just go completely gung ho against everyone, arguably our defenders should be able to handle what most teams have to throw at them at home so why be overly conservative in the midfield. 

 

The likes of van Ginkel and Ramires are still competent defensively but also offer a fair bit going forward as well. I just don't see the need to tell someone like Mikel to almost never leave our half when playing at home, it's been a hindrance on occasions in the past because the other team are sat deep and hard to break down so you're looking for help from all over the pitch and in my opinion a way to combat that is to be braver from the middle of the park. 

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But you're going to just go completely gung ho against everyone, arguably our defenders should be able to handle what most teams have to throw at them at home so why be overly conservative in the midfield. 

 

The likes of van Ginkel and Ramires are still competent defensively but also offer a fair bit going forward as well. I just don't see the need to tell someone like Mikel to almost never leave our half when playing at home, it's been a hindrance on occasions in the past because the other team are sat deep and hard to break down so you're looking for help from all over the pitch and in my opinion a way to combat that is to be braver from the middle of the park. 

 

That depends on our definitons of "overly conservative". I'd be overly conservative only against teams like Bayern and Barca,

a lesser defensive(but still defensive and having a good positional sense) DM against lesser opposition in the league.

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That depends on our definitons of "overly conservative". I'd be overly conservative only against teams like Bayern and Barca,

a lesser defensive(but still defensive and having a good positional sense) DM against lesser opposition in the league.

 

Against the likes of Manchester United/City, Arsenal, Spurs etc of course you need to be cautious, even at home. I'm referring to playing the likes of Hull, Sunderland, Stoke, Crystal Palace at home. 

 

There's a good chance those teams are going to dig their heels in from the first minute and in my opinion a player like Mikel is a wasted pick at home in those matches. I think you can offered to be a little more adventurous against those teams and not play someone as a designated defensive midfielder. A partnership such as Ramires and van Ginkel should be good enough to deal with them in the middle but also have a bit pace and decent distribution between them to give them something to worry about whenever we are in possession. 

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                          Van Ginkel's performances In the pre-season games were quite impressive.

 

                          He linked up very well with Ramires,[ in the 4-2-3-1

 

                          He has the talent, determination  and stamina survive the Premiership. 

 

                          Mourinho is capable of getting the best out of him.

Edited by Randy36
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MvG—"I was a starter during the [friendly] games. When you play 60/70 mins from the start every game, you know you're on the right track."

 

 

MvG—"I have confidence in my own qualities but no one knows for sure if they will start every game – even the more experienced guys."

 

 

MvG—"With Mourinho you know you have a manager with a really big personality in charge. You can feel it when he gives speeches."

 

 
MvG on Mourinho—"We spoke on the phone before I came to Chelsea and he said that I wouldn't be leaving on loan this season."
 

 

MvG on Mourinho—"He took my doubts about the transfer away. We had a good conversation. He gave me a good feeling about moving to Chelsea."

 

 

Some quotes from the young lad, goal.com the source.

 

Also mentioned something like hes seen as the replacement for Frank as its his last year...

 

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