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How serious are AS Monaco?


Snedger
Chelsea Megastore
Chelsea Megastore

Chelsea Megastore

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I had completely missed this news but, based on stories linking Monaco with Falcao (to the point that it is reported to be completed this week) and numerous other names such as Ben Arfa from Newcastle and the fact that they’ve spent 60 million on Moutinho and Rodriguez from Porto; are Monaco the real deal here and a serious threat to PSG and ultimately the other ‘big’ sides in Europe?

 

It looks as though they are at least on a par with City and PSG in the spending stakes. Or is this a Malaga-esque sham?

 

Interesting to know how the teams rank now in spending power and to see that factored against the clubs general gravitas. I guess that we have slipped behind City, PSG and perhaps now Monaco in pure spending ability terms. And then maybe we have more cash in our pocket than some of the other European giants but maybe we still lack a little of the draw that Bayern, Real and Barca have. So where does that leave us?

 

Apart from looking to have missed out on Falcao, I’m quite happy to see Monaco become a contender. Should help the French league improve as a whole in time.

 

 

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Monaco's tax situation adds a whole new dynamic.

 

They don't have to offer as much in wages because the amount of tax paid is nothing in comparison to say England were players are paying 45% tax on their wage. 

 

This means that Monaco can stump up the transfer fees but not have to offer as high of a wage making their total out goings lower.

 

It will take them a couple of years to assemble a team that is confident playing together but if they secure Champions League football next season they will become a very attractive destination for a lot of players. 

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They are spending serious money and are based in the millionaires capital of the world, I expect they along with PSG will be challenging for CL titles within the next few years.

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I wouldn't have thought that their is any value in Ben Arfa going there, because as I understand it French nationals pay tax on money earned in Monaco.

 

For the others though the appeal is massive, I would imagine that Monaco are paying these players in line with their worth, otherwise why would these players be going there?

 

Must be nice to know that you will see the whole of that £150k per week!

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Don't think they will manage to do much,they will challenge for the silly French League and end up runner's up behind PSG.

 

Disagree with that. I think Germany has shown that it's not all about the PL and La Liga. All leagues around Europe have a small group of sides that are ever present at the top but in France they seem to have a bit more variation. Plus I like the football they play there. I haven't seen any Stokes whilst watching on ESPN this year. And the fans in games in France seem to have an enthusiasm and ability to create a cracking atmosphere that is largely lacking from the PL. I disagree that it is a 'silly league'.

 

Just need some rich foreigners to invest heavily in Ajax and PSV and we'll start to get a more balanced assault on the CL each year and a little less of a precession until the 4 or 8.

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Not to knock them, but its going to be very strange seeing some of the biggest players in the world play in a stadium that is mostly desolate. 

 

It will be especially jarring on CL nights, when big teams come to town. I'm sure the Spanish and northern Italian teams will travel well, but their numbers will also probably be restricted.*

 

 

 

*I guess I am assuming that their spending will work and they will be barging in among the big boys.

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That's true. They aren't well supported but, with only 18'000 seats it's not too big an ask if they are actually competitive in the CL matches. But at home to Le Harve in the league might see a few empty seats.

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I think the top rate of tax in France is 75% so it may be quite soon that the other French clubs look to boot our Monaco. It is difficult to compete with 75% tax V's basically zero I believe

 

Well, its possible that the big clubs will try to lobby the government like they did in Spain. Before austerity, the Spanish had a tax loophole where foreigners coming to their country would pay 25% for two or three years, before having to pay the full amount.

 

Granted, I dont think the French government would ever do such a thing, especially not in these times, but I am sure the French FA will try to do something to make sure the clubs have to follow national taxation rules if they are to compete in their league. Doubt the French are gonna wanna throw the potential for all that money in a newly rich club overboard.

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I think the top rate of tax in France is 75% so it may be quite soon that the other French clubs look to boot our Monaco. It is difficult to compete with 75% tax V's basically zero I believe

 

Wow, you were right, apparently this has already happened.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/28/monaco-100m-transfers-ligue-1-ban

 

 

English football fans are familiar with the pro-and-con arguments about super-rich investors. The twist in the Monaco case is that the club that has just won Ligue 2 enjoys an added advantage over its rivals by dint of being based in a tax haven, a status that it has always had but which French clubs now find particularly grating in view of the soaring fiscal demands placed on them. The sense of unfairness led the clubs, via the Ligue Professionnel de Football (LFP), to take the unprecedented decision in March of restricting admission to Ligue 1 to clubs whose headquarters is located in France for tax purposes. This would force Monaco, participants in the French league for nearly a century, to change their status or forefeit the place in the top flight that they won by topping Ligue 2.

 

The ultimatum outraged Monaco. The French Football Federation stepped in to mediate. A compromise solution was put to the club in a meeting earlier this month, whereby Monaco would pay €200m (£170m) over six or seven years to persuade the other clubs to shelve their misgivings. A brazen hustle, reckoned Rybolovlev, who walked straight out of the room. Then Monaco launched legal proceedings with France's supreme court, declaring that the LFP's decision in March "violates several fundamental principles of French and European law, notably the principle of free movement, free competition, free access to sporting competitions, and also the Franco-Monégasque tax convention signed on the 18 February 1963".

 

 

 

Holy crap, that could be a real situation. This is sounding like the franchise system of American sports, where other owners are paid to let a new team come into the league. Either way this goes, someone is going to look very foolish or very weak.

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I think the presence of Monaco is only good for European football like us, City, PSG & Anzhi are/were. This is so long as the cost of servicing these clubs sending is not passed onto the fans.
 

Why do I think it's good? Well 13 years ago there was very serious talks of 15 teams breaking away to form a 'European Super League', which Platini himself was against saying 'European football should not be dominated by clubs just because they have historically been the richest and most successful' (I can show you video evidence of this if you wish). But now, if such league were to be established, there would be over 30 credible candidates. The rules of the game have changed and the once elites are quaking.

There is now not an elite 10 teams dominating and in fact European football is now a melting pot, with some of the world's best players playing in unfancied leagues. Post 98, Europe has been dominated by the traditional powerhouses but I think we will soon see a more open competition with an array of winners of the Champions League whilst leagues that were once on the outskirts will have fantastically talented players.

Exciting times in European football.

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I don't think it could have happened to a better club, Monaco are rich with French and European pedigree and have had some of the best teams and top players over the years. I can't wait to see them back in Europe personally. They really deserve it, especially their fans who have stuck with them through thick and thin. They may not have a lot of them but the ones they do have are very loyal. 

 

From my understand Monaco are going pumping money into the club much in the same way as we do, which leads me to believe that they will be very successful over the coming years. It's not a Malaga-esque situation at all, proven by the fact that they have actually spent money.

 

Wow, you were right, apparently this has already happened.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/may/28/monaco-100m-transfers-ligue-1-ban

 

 

 

 

Holy crap, that could be a real situation. This is sounding like the franchise system of American sports, where other owners are paid to let a new team come into the league. Either way this goes, someone is going to look very foolish or very weak.

The LFP stand no chance and if I was them I would give up and walk away before any further embarrassment is caused. Monaco will win this and when they win they will be getting a massive pay off. LFP are in violation of EU and French Law, Monaco are free to locate themselves anywhere within the EU even if it is solely for tax reasons. While they aren't in the EU, The EU's jurisdiction still covers Monaco when it comes to finances due to some other agreements which isn't relevant enough for me to go further into.

 

Doesn't matter what the LFP say, even if it was accepted, which is highly unlikely as it would go against their own laws,  the EU would overturn them. Even if we assume the EU agreed (They were probably drunk or something) with the French court and the LFP, again extremely unlikely as this is seen as one of the most important principles which governs the entire EU and those associated, the LFP would have to get a unanimoius vote from all the clubs in order to be able to kick Monaco out. Monaco are one of France's biggest clubs historically, that in itself would be enough for other clubs not to want to get rid of them, others would probably see them entering the league as a good thing as it provides more coverage which in turn benefits all clubs as the league gets better and more TV deals are negotiated as coverage is more in demand. 

Edited by Remodez
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I love these other teams coming into the equation, this FFP doesn't seem to help the small teams at all its just another G14 BS move

 

i love football and i love teams from all over europe challenging, the fact we have french teams in the mix again is great, competiton is healthy.

 

3 leagues dominating football isn't great, it's funny how we are now public enemy number one in england because we have a very wealthy owner, yet no other team would complain if the same happened, i welcome investment from all over. Would be nice to see the likes of Ajax or PSV back in the mix, just like it was good to see shakhtar donestk this year. albeit at our own expense.

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I wonder how Platini feels about FFP now some french teams are loaded. We all know that FFP is bullsh*te anyway, there is nothing fair about it just a cartel of rich clubs trying to make sure they stay rich.

As for Monaco being a tax haven how is that a level playing field? not only for the rest of France but Europe in general. If you enter a competition you must all play by the same rules otherwise where does it end, you could have some team from Slovakia or somewhere saying well in our league we play 15 aside so we will do the same in the UEFA cup against your 11. I know it sounds silly  but if there is one rule for one then there should be the same rule for another whether its on the pitch or off it.

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I wonder how Platini feels about FFP now some french teams are loaded. We all know that FFP is bullsh*te anyway, there is nothing fair about it just a cartel of rich clubs trying to make sure they stay rich.

As for Monaco being a tax haven how is that a level playing field? not only for the rest of France but Europe in general. If you enter a competition you must all play by the same rules otherwise where does it end, you could have some team from Slovakia or somewhere saying well in our league we play 15 aside so we will do the same in the UEFA cup against your 11. I know it sounds silly  but if there is one rule for one then there should be the same rule for another whether its on the pitch or off it.

They had no problem with allowing Monaco before and it's been a tax haven, as far as income is concerned, for a long time now. If they were really concerned about the well being of the league then they shouldn't have accepted them in the first place or at least got rid of them once they gain their tax haven status. It probably would have made more sense back then too. 

 

Also your example is pure hyperbole, that's changing the entire rules of the game. Every team/league/country registered or that takes part in any competition regulated by UEFA and/or FIFA abides by their rules, near the top of the list I would imagine is that teams are only allowed 11 players. What Monaco are doing isn't illegal, you could even say it's actually encouraged. Every law in the book is on their side, they have been in the league for decades and have been one of it's most successful teams. They have every right to return to Ligue 1.

Edited by Remodez
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They had no problem with allowing Monaco before and it's been a tax haven, as far as income is concerned, for a long time now. If they were really concerned about the well being of the league then they shouldn't have accepted them in the first place or at least got rid of them once they gain their tax haven status. It probably would have made more sense back then too. 

 

Also your example is pure hyperbole, that's changing the entire rules of the game. Every team/league/country registered or that takes part in any competition regulated by UEFA and/or FIFA abides by their rules, near the top of the list I would imagine is that teams are only allowed 11 players. What Monaco are doing isn't illegal, you could even say it's actually encouraged. Every law in the book is on their side, they have been in the league for decades and have been one of it's most successful teams. They have every right to return to Ligue 1.

I only gave a very silly example there to be honest, but the point remains the same. The point is never before have there been the strict financial restraints that UEFA are currently trying to impose. They are imposing them on everyone but Monaco DO have an unfair advantage which in turn means that there is no level playing field and they either agree to the off field rules as you said they must the on field rules or they dont play......their choice.

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I only gave a very silly example there to be honest, but the point remains the same. The point is never before have there been the strict financial restraints that UEFA are currently trying to impose. They are imposing them on everyone but Monaco DO have an unfair advantage which in turn means that there is no level playing field and they either agree to the off field rules as you said they must the on field rules or they dont play......their choice.

Monaco are going to be in line with the FFP though so if that's your reason then there's nothing to worry about.

 

You speak of an unfair advantage, let's be honest here, there hasn't been any sort of equal footing in football for quite some time now and it's too far gone for people to start trying. Especially with flimsy rules like the FFP. 

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Mate i totally agree that FFP is rubbish. Its rubbish firstly in principal but also in practice. There are so many loopholes etc that it really is a waste of time. BUT and having said this its a big BUT if everybody has to be seen to be complying then why should one club be the exception to the rule.

This is the issue and i can understand why French clubs are aggrieved. The rules say clubs can only spend what they earn. seeing as most clubs only costs are transfers and wages, to have one club that that can straight out the block have a wage bill thats 50% lower than everybody else they are at a massive unfair advantage.

And not being an expert in tax law i am just dealing with costs, forgetting the advantage they face on profits to. 

Look at it plainly, if we pay a player £100k per week, he takes home £50k per week. Monaco can come along and pay that guy £75k per week and he takes home £75k per week. We have been gazumped so we get some one else, but they still have a wage bill thats 25% lower than us and are meeting FFP rules.........its bo!!ocks no matter how you dress it.

I know this has only become an issue since they got investment and as we know there is a lot of jealousy and resentment out there but it doesn't change the fact that they are still technically an exception to rules which govern everybody else and that is quite frankly wrong. 

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Mate i totally agree that FFP is rubbish. Its rubbish firstly in principal but also in practice. There are so many loopholes etc that it really is a waste of time. BUT and having said this its a big BUT if everybody has to be seen to be complying then why should one club be the exception to the rule.

This is the issue and i can understand why French clubs are aggrieved. The rules say clubs can only spend what they earn. seeing as most clubs only costs are transfers and wages, to have one club that that can straight out the block have a wage bill thats 50% lower than everybody else they are at a massive unfair advantage.

And not being an expert in tax law i am just dealing with costs, forgetting the advantage they face on profits to.

Look at it plainly, if we pay a player £100k per week, he takes home £50k per week. Monaco can come along and pay that guy £75k per week and he takes home £75k per week. We have been gazumped so we get some one else, but they still have a wage bill thats 25% lower than us and are meeting FFP rules.........its bo!!ocks no matter how you dress it.

I know this has only become an issue since they got investment and as we know there is a lot of jealousy and resentment out there but it doesn't change the fact that they are still technically an exception to rules which govern everybody else and that is quite frankly wrong.

The highest tax rate in France is 75%, comparing that with 0% in Monaco... well that's anything but a level playing field.

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The highest tax rate in France is 75%, comparing that with 0% in Monaco... well that's anything but a level playing field.

exactly, bloody hell 75% thats a liberty. I dont know much about it but i wonder how they work out borders etc regarding Monaco and neighboring towns/cities??

In London you can live in one borough then cross the street and be in another. You'd be fuming in France if you had to pay 75% tax but the bloke over the road paid nothing 'cos his house/office was classed as Monaco and your wasn't. 

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C3, I thought for a second you were exaggurating with the "guy across the road" thing. Then I actually looked at a map of the country.

 

the-nine-arches-at-stade-louis-ii_700_0.

 

 

This picture (which I have seen in several articles referencing their new found riches) was taken by someone standing in France.  I knew it was just a small city, but I had no earthly clue that Monaco was that small.

 

 

 

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Well, maybe the stadium is on the outskirts of Monaco, on the border with France.  I think Monaco is a reasonable size country/principality, about as big as Luxembourg?

 

Its much much smaller Phillip. About 2 sq. km. Luxembourg is about 2,500 sq km. 

 

And the border with France is the street outside Stade Louis II, according to google maps.  I find myself wondering just where all these mega rich footballers are going to live if they plan to qualify for no taxation. :laugh2:

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