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Willian


Mike 93
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32 minutes ago, the special one said:

City won the league with Silva/De Bruyne, United have Pogba and finished 2nd, Barcelona/Liverpool have/had Coutinho and finished 1st/4th respectively, Spurs have Eriksen/Alli and finished 3rd, Juve have Pjanic and won the league - compare their overall performance to ours this season.

Not too sure what point you're trying to make here??

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17 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Not too sure what point you're trying to make here??

The point is they all have attacking centre mids that score/assist consistently. Without attacking centre mids who score/assist we have to find different solutions, solutions that evidently didn't work this season.

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1 hour ago, Sindre said:

Matic was their best midfielder last season for me. Pogba was average with a few exceptions but Matic was good throughout the season pretty much.

He's an excellent midfielder.

Matic was the best of a bad bunch, doesn't mean he had a good season. Pogba, Herrera, Fellani were average. Kante was Chelsea's best midfielder but anyone watching the games could see he was superb.

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18 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Exactly, hence why we're advocating for Willian to go. 

It's the crap we have brought 12 months ago i was referring to. Willian has contributed towards two league titles and an FA cup, and you think he's crap ? If we get rid of every player below Willian's level, we would end up with three players left.

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12 minutes ago, the special one said:

The point is they all have attacking centre mids that score/assist consistently. Without attacking centre mids who score/assist we have to find different solutions, solutions that evidently didn't work this season.

All those teams also play 4 at the back so can afford to have another body in the middle to allow for these 'goal scoring attacking mids'. We're not going to have a 10+ goal CM in a 343, that's what the inside forwards are for (i.e. William/Hazard). Next season in a 433 we can achieve that with RLC in the middle.

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Just now, coco said:

It's the crap we have brought 12 months ago i was referring to. Willian has contributed towards two league titles and an FA cup, and you think he's crap ? If we get rid of every player below Willian's level, we would end up with three players left.

When you get offered daft money for a player you should accept it and improve that position imo. Would feel better next season with: Hazard, Malcom, CHO than: Hazard, Willian and Pedro.

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6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

When you get offered daft money for a player you should accept it and improve that position imo. Would feel better next season with: Hazard, Malcom, CHO than: Hazard, Willian and Pedro.

But your'e assuming that we will spend the Willian money on a better player, when all the recent evidence says we will waste it.

We need to rebuild the midfield around Kante first before we start selling our proven attacking forwards.

I would look to replace Pedro and Morata in the attack. Bakayoko and Drinkwater in midfield. Zappacosta and Moses on the wings. Cahill and Luiz in defence.

When we have done all that, then we can talk about Willian.

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2 minutes ago, coco said:

But your'e assuming that we will spend the Willian money on a better player, when all the recent evidence says we will waste it.

We need to rebuild the midfield around Kante first before we start selling our proven attacking forwards.

I would look to replace Pedro and Morata in the attack. Bakayoko and Drinkwater in midfield. Zappacosta and Moses on the wings. Cahill and Luiz in defence.

When we have done all that, then we can talk about Willian.

Courtois

Azpi  Christensen  Rudiger  Emerson

New CM

Kante   RLC

Malcom   Batshuayi   Hazard

 

Willy / Alonso / Moses / Cahill / Drinkwater / Cesc / CHO / Giroud

Wouldn't mind seeing something like that next year. Options for RW are up for debate but not too many changes needed. New ball playing holding mid, new RW and maybe a new ST if SArri doesn't want Bats. Like you said, would probably swap Drinkwater for someone new too. 

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Don't like the idea of letting United have more of our players, but f**k me, £60M for 30 year old Willian is insane money. Take it before they change their mind.

He'll always be one of those "nearly players". Promises so much, but actually delivers little. Got bored with the Brazil game last night but what I saw in the first 45 minutes summed Willian up exactly. Couple of good touches here and there but did very little to worry or trouble the opposition and often too happy to play second fiddle to the bigger names in the team.

 

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Courtois

Azpi  Christensen  Rudiger  Emerson

New CM

Kante   RLC

Malcom   Batshuayi   Hazard

 

Willy / Alonso / Moses / Cahill / Drinkwater / Cesc / CHO / Giroud

Wouldn't mind seeing something like that next year. Options for RW are up for debate but not too many changes needed. New ball playing holding mid, new RW and maybe a new ST if SArri doesn't want Bats. Like you said, would probably swap Drinkwater for someone new too. 

Isn't Malcom going to Inter Milan?. Its ok selling Willian but the problem is replacing him with a player as good as or better, im not confident we can do that.

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Just now, jack_super_class said:

Isn't Malcom going to Inter Milan?. Its ok selling Willian but the problem is replacing him with a player as good as or better, im not confident we can do that.

If not Malcom than Bailey or Lozano look like good options. Fekir has been offered about since 'Pool dropped out the running or a complete risk with Depay who was never managed properly at Utd. With a scouting network as expensive as ours we should be able to find someone to match his output, surely?

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3 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

If not Malcom than Bailey or Lozano look like good options. Fekir has been offered about since 'Pool dropped out the running or a complete risk with Depay who was never managed properly at Utd. With a scouting network as expensive as ours we should be able to find someone to match his output, surely?

If Sarri is manager we're buying Bertrand Traore back, heard it here first :wink:

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Just now, the special one said:

If Sarri is manager we're buying Bertrand Traore back, heard it here first :wink:

Wouldn't actually be against that! Fantastic goal record everywhere he goes. Still think his best position is up top instead of on the wing though.

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55 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Wouldn't actually be against that! Fantastic goal record everywhere he goes. Still think his best position is up top instead of on the wing though.

Watched him a few times last season and looks like he's kicked on another level - as you say his best position may be at right inside forward (Callejon's position for Napoli). Sarri seems to prefer distribution and chance creation over take on ability so I could see us cashing in on Willian and triggering Traore's buyback clause.

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7 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Isn't Malcom going to Inter Milan?. Its ok selling Willian but the problem is replacing him with a player as good as or better, im not confident we can do that.

I think the art is in selling Willian for 60m and replacing him with somebody who has got the potential to develop and deliver more over time , rather than a ready made replacement.

I also thnk the press release recently valuing Martial in excess of 70m is typical Mourinho posturing and makes me think more and more that the deal being looked at behind the scenes is Willian for Martial. It could end up a straight swap and in fairness to Willian he has delivered more than Martial and should be a higher ranking player. But i think, and i may not be the only one, that Martial has got the potential to surpass Willian.

However, if we do get Sarri i do think Willian fits his profile of work ethic, its just his overplaying and hanging on to the ball too long that is his undoing, imo.

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11 hours ago, ducavis said:

Shocked he hasn’t been repurposed as a CM already.

He's already played CM for us under Jose and was dreadful cause he can't defend and he runs after the ball with no concept of positioning. 

Maybe Sarri can try that experiment again.

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11 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I think the art is in selling Willian for 60m and replacing him with somebody who has got the potential to develop and deliver more over time , rather than a ready made replacement.

I also thnk the press release recently valuing Martial in excess of 70m is typical Mourinho posturing and makes me think more and more that the deal being looked at behind the scenes is Willian for Martial. It could end up a straight swap and in fairness to Willian he has delivered more than Martial and should be a higher ranking player. But i think, and i may not be the only one, that Martial has got the potential to surpass Willian.

However, if we do get Sarri i do think Willian fits his profile of work ethic, its just his overplaying and hanging on to the ball too long that is his undoing, imo.

Think we have the perfect candidate in Hudson-Odoi.

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The guy turns 30 at the start of the season and has no more than two years of top level Premiership football, at the end of which, he won’t have any resale value. 

60 million is insane money for a 30 year old who isn't in the “elite” bracket.  Yes, even in these inflated times.

Sure, he has been good for us over the years but this is the kind of deal we should be looking at, given the imminent cut in transfer spending at the club.

There might be some skepticism in selling a third major player to United in recent times, but neither Mata nor Matic (except for very brief periods) have done anything groundbreaking after their Chelsea departures. 

Whether we spend the 60 million wisely is another issue though. Some of our recent acquisitions have been abject. 

 Nonetheless, the offer on table is pretty darn good, and that we can’t seem to get hold of good players in the market shouldn’t be reason enough to refuse a sensible deal (assuming Daily Mail and Daily Express aren't selling us dross.) 

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