coco Posted May 6, 2014 Posted May 6, 2014 We've all used the phrase over the last year, some more than others. But what do we actually mean by it ? Obviously it means a change of some kind, but in what way is it different to any other season ? It wasn't called a transitional season when AVB was here, so it can't be transitional just because we have a new manager. So what exactly is transitional about this season over previous seasons ?
Eggy McMuffin Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I disagree with the premise. AVB's season was transitional in every sense, it was just seen that the changes being implemented were not improving the side in any way. Transition is transition, that doesn't mean it's positive or a bearable level of performance in the mean time. Ignoring that, transitional for me means that there is some big change being implemented, whether that's a big change in style or personnel. This season being called a transition is as much as anything an excuse for a lack of trophies, but there has been a big change of style.
Scott Harris Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) I disagree with the premise. AVB's season was transitional in every sense, it was just seen that the changes being implemented were not improving the side in any way. Transition is transition, that doesn't mean it's positive or a bearable level of performance in the mean time. Ignoring that, transitional for me means that there is some big change being implemented, whether that's a big change in style or personnel. This season being called a transition is as much as anything an excuse for a lack of trophies, but there has been a big change of style. I agree there. People seem to use transition as an excuse when we don't win things. Since Ancelotti's 2nd season i have been hearing that word used when describing us. Like you said a transition was when AVB took over, i feel we should be out of that transitional period now and we should have been the complete team. In some areas we look as disjointed as ever we have been since Ancelotti's last season. I don't think a change of manager can be an excuse either because we have had great success straight after a manager change in the past. Edited May 7, 2014 by Scott Harris
Butch Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I think the key players we had during Jose's first tenure at Chelsea are at or close to the end of their careers here, for example Frank Lampard and Ashley Cole. John Terry has had a bit of a renaissance but that has been the exception. Transition is a transition in the "backbone" of the team that is going to take us forward for the next many years. Just as Cech, JT, Frank and Didier were the backbone from 2005-2013, a new backbone needs to be put into place by Jose now. It is beginning to take shape with Cahill and Matic really stepping up this season, and with Eden Hazard beginning to be an absolutely key cog further up, but Cech's place is being severely challenged by Courtois and we're still short of a dependable striker that can lead us from the front. Basically, we're not the finished article yet, at least not in Jose's view and that is what counts. I know people are disappointed. I can't say I am not disappointed to get so close yet not quite reach success. But when push came to shove in the EPL, we just weren't able to unlock defenses intent on shutting up shop (oh, the irony) and in the CL I really have to admit that Atletico played better than us on the day while we made key defensive mistakes that cost us. Transition is not an excuse for lack of success. Nobody has any right to success. We have been in the running more than most, in the two competitions that mean anything. But transition does put things into perspective, when people are so quick to point out how big a failure we've become by not actually winning anything! Cheers, Butch
SHELLY Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I started to compose a post, but basically realised that Butch had already said it...
PloKoon13 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 Our pressing game has completely changed; we've gone from having no proper strategy off the ball (which has been a problem for quite a long time in all honesty) to being a far more organized and aggressive unit off the ball. This hasn't been the case quite as much since Oscar dropped off form/got injured but there is still a marked improvement in our gameplan. Admittedly we're struggling a little more creatively but that is understandable considering last season we had Mata unleashed of more or less any defensive responsibility. If we beat Cardiff at the weekend (let's say 1-0) we'll have scored five fewer goals than last season but we'll have seven points more (and bear in mind our goalscoring stats are a little skewed from scoring ten against Tottenham and Arsenal) - this paints a picture that we are a more disciplined unit as a whole. Obviously we have issues going forward but José has made it perfectly clear all season that he intends to address that in quite a serious way during the summer transfer window. In terms of making genuine transition we have a big advantage over last season in that we had the same manager all year, so in theory it would be simpler to implement a holistic, long-term plan than one man who had the sword of Damocles hanging over him from the day of his appointment and another who was only ever appointed to be an interim and salvage what he could from the season. Like Eggy said transition isn't measured by trophies but I do think our playing style has changed a fair amount, and has importantly given us something to build on for next season. Our first XI has also evolved somewhat: (under Robbie) ---------------------------Cech Ivanovic-----------Luiz------Terry-----------Cole ------------------Ramires-----Mikel ------------Mata-------Oscar------Hazard --------------------------Torres (under Benitez) --------------------------Cech Azpilicueta-----Ivanovic------Luiz-------Cole -----------------Ramires-----Lampard -----Oscar-------------Mata-----------Hazard -------------------------Torres (under José - although I imagined this lineup was always with a view to replacing Eto'o and Lampard within the first XI for the following season as he doesn't seem particularly satisfied with them) ---------------------------Cech Ivanovic----------Cahill------Terry-------Azpilicueta -----------------Ramires-----Lampard -------Willian-----------Oscar-----------Hazard ---------------------------Eto'o (also please correct me on any of those starting XIs - I was doing it from memory so in terms of number of appearances made they're probably a bit off)
ethicalstrategy Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 There is a big difference between the squad that Jose inherited this time and the one that he took over from Ranieri. That squad had the personnel but not the winning mentality. This time there are some glaring holes in the squad as well. If we can patch these in the summer then I'm sure Jose can provide the motivation.
terraloon Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) For me the transition is two fold. First its establishing which of the players fit into the system, in real time as opposed to on paper or on the practise pitch. Its clear some of the very talented players we have brought in just don't fit the system Second and probably more important part of our transition is to return to a situation where full power returns to the manager as opposed to being in the dressing room. This part I think is going to be more painful and something that some of the players who arrived over the last 4 or 5 years have to realise they have to knuckle down and play both the system and approach the manager decides and not run to the press at the first hint of criticism . Edited May 7, 2014 by terraloon
dkw Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I think the second part is the most important terraloon. Jose's public slapping of hazard was basically a line in the sand being drawn by him. Playing wise he realised fairly early in the season we just didn't gave the personnel to play an expansive game and stay competitive, so he changed back to a style he knew would work. A couple of key signings and hopefully we will go back to the more attacking play.
Veeria Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 I think the agruement that its not a transitional season because 'we should of done it already' or we've been doing it for years is very weak. We tried to do it with AVB but it didn't work so we got rid of him, RDM was only a short term solution and forced Chelsea to give him the full time job, his achivements were remarkable but if we're all honest he was never the man to build a new team. Then FSW who the less said the better. Really Jose is starting a whole new project. As its been said we haven't replaced the spine of our team that was so successful. No Drogba replacement, no Lampard replacement, no real replacement for Cole, other than a quick fix rb. Still have to get a replacement for JT, although admittedly he is the best reamaing player.these solutions are all looking to be fixed, were buying young players now ones with a future and if we get it right we might have another great team for the next 10 years. We've added youth to our squad as well and stopped buying players for one or two seasons like Ba or Benayoun ect (admittedly Schwarzer and Eto'o but these were free/cheap). As its been said our playing style has changed, we seem a lot more organised and seem to be building towards something, were possibly just a striker off, for the last few years we would of needed a lot more than just that, our defence has finally been sorted out. The way I see it is that the press don't let Jose have a transitional season, they've been telling us otherwise all year. If we had a different manager this year we wouldn't of even been mentioned for the title, not a chance, Joses record has gone against him this yar he doesn't get a let off from his high standards. If the man who came to this club and told everyone he is the special one, basically said he would win the league and did why are we questioning when he came here on his first press conference and said he will not win the league, that this is infact a transitional season, he has always said it and he would know.
Spiller86 Posted May 7, 2014 Posted May 7, 2014 The issue is that we say we are transitioning but we never do. We've been in transition every year since Jose left. In the end, somewhat ironically, our transition actually went on so long it came full circle and Jose came back.
Blue Tony Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 10 managerial changes and 72 signings in the 10+ years since Mr A took over. When is it not a "Transitional Year"?
venom2011 Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 I think the second part is the most important terraloon. Jose's public slapping of hazard was basically a line in the sand being drawn by him. Playing wise he realised fairly early in the season we just didn't gave the personnel to play an expansive game and stay competitive, so he changed back to a style he knew would work. A couple of key signings and hopefully we will go back to the more attacking play. It's very obvious what Jose wants. We've seen a slight evolution of the game again. Physical domination, technical domination and work rate. A team that exemplifies all these areas, and has the requisite quality across the board, will be dominant. Someone like Matic ticks all the boxes, whereas someone like Mata, as good as he is, only ticks one. It is no surprise that Atletico is having a stellar season because of this philosophy (Dortmund at their peak as well) and ultimately I think it's close to what Jose wants us to be. Man City are about the closest in the league to this philosophy but they're far too individualistic and will never properly dominate. Looking forward to a massive season coming up.
soldiergirl84 Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 While I think it's a bit of a cop-out, Jose has a considerably different squad than the one he had when he was here the first time. The first time he had John Terry, Frank Lampard, Petr Cech, Didier Drogba, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Carlo Cudicini, and several others, in their prime. Didier, Joe, and Carlo have left, and John, Frank, Ashley and Petr are in the twilight of their careers. Well, John is making a comeback, but other than that, the "old guard" is in need of some changing. Jose is working on who is going to change the guard, once they are gone. Courtois looks like he's going to give Petr a run for his money, and Eden definitely looks up to the challenge. I'm looking forward to seeing how Thorgan fits in, Matic has worked wonders for us, and while Willian needs some fine tuning, he looks to have a bright future with us. I'm a little unsure about Salah, since he hasn't played much. We'll see next season. All we need now, is a striker or two. We can get that figured out this summer, and Jose will have plenty of opportunity to look for prospects with the World Cup.
evissy Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Well transition or not Jose saw how this season would go for us. Close to title, did well in CL. With a little luck we still could be in the race.. But I agree with Butch. We are growing a new backbone here. Looking good in the department. Matic, Oscar, Hazard, Azpilicueta and so on.
dkw Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 It's very obvious what Jose wants. We've seen a slight evolution of the game again. Physical domination, technical domination and work rate. A team that exemplifies all these areas, and has the requisite quality across the board, will be dominant. Someone like Matic ticks all the boxes, whereas someone like Mata, as good as he is, only ticks one. It is no surprise that Atletico is having a stellar season because of this philosophy (Dortmund at their peak as well) and ultimately I think it's close to what Jose wants us to be. Man City are about the closest in the league to this philosophy but they're far too individualistic and will never properly dominate. Looking forward to a massive season coming up. You can include the pre guardiola Munich also, it was their game style also.
Teritus Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 You can include the pre guardiola Munich also, it was their game style also. Yep, and us under Mourinho's first reign is also a good shout.
MANoWAR Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) It's very obvious what Jose wants. We've seen a slight evolution of the game again. Physical domination, technical domination and work rate. A team that exemplifies all these areas, and has the requisite quality across the board, will be dominant. Someone like Matic ticks all the boxes, whereas someone like Mata, as good as he is, only ticks one. It is no surprise that Atletico is having a stellar season because of this philosophy (Dortmund at their peak as well) and ultimately I think it's close to what Jose wants us to be. Man City are about the closest in the league to this philosophy but they're far too individualistic and will never properly dominate. Looking forward to a massive season coming up. Not sure what you mean by this really. That they rely too much on individual brilliance and coordinated team play? If so I don't agree with that tbh. I get what you're saying otherwise however Edited May 8, 2014 by MANoWAR
CFCCAN Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 So if we wouldn't have bottled it against the likes of Villa, Palace, Sunderland etc and won the league (as we should of done) the word 'transition' wouldn't have entered the equation and it would have been all smiles and roses. Apart from AVB and Scolari trying to change the way we play, we have always reverted back to playing the 'Chelsea way', not too pretty to watch but solid and dogged in defence, solid midfield and apart from the Didier era generally mediocre going forward. I until I see a complete change around as to how we typically play I don't buy the 'transition' theory regardless of which manager is in charge. I have no qualms about where we ended up but I still think we blew it more so that Liverpool....unless Man City totally balls it up on Sunday.
EmeraldBlue Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Teams are in transition all the time - a problem arises when several players go past their peak at around the same time, which is a bit like our situation. City, as someone else pointed out, are probably the most advanced at this present moment but even they nearly blew the PL and may still. I think we are almost into the area of tweaking now, certainly we should be next season, and that bodes well for all sorts of reasons. However, it's never straightforward, injuries ( look at Arsenal ) and other events can conspire to trip up the best if teams.
venom2011 Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 Not sure what you mean by this really. That they rely too much on individual brilliance and coordinated team play? If so I don't agree with that tbh. I get what you're saying otherwise however Yes. They do have their moments when everything clicks but by and large have relied on magical moments from Aguero, Toure, Silva, Nasri etc. For a team with such talent - and more importantly these players are in their prime - to just about sneak 2* league titles only serves to highlight my point. City should have strolled the league during these last three seasons.
MANoWAR Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Yes. They do have their moments when everything clicks but by and large have relied on magical moments from Aguero, Toure, Silva, Nasri etc. For a team with such talent - and more importantly these players are in their prime - to just about sneak 2* league titles only serves to highlight my point. City should have strolled the league during these last three seasons. To be fair I think that's a lot to do with management. I think Pellegrini is quite tactically naive and hasn't exactly shown himself to be much of a winner in his past clubs. Mancini is better but last season his man management wasn't the best and certain players who weren't doing well last season (i.e Aguero, Nasri) are doing far better this season. I do think if you put Mourinho/Ferguson or one of those established managers, they would've won the league a while ago. Even so though, I do think they're a lot more fluid in their play than most teams really. Edited May 8, 2014 by MANoWAR
enigma Posted May 8, 2014 Posted May 8, 2014 It hasn't been a transitional season, we just haven't been consistent enough and, below are the other reasons why we haven't done as well as first hoped under mourinho. - we haven't had a top goal scorer/s all season, other teams have. - we were without a reliable/solid holding midfielder for 4 months at the start of the season before we finally brought in matic (made a huge difference!) - we lost van ginkel early on in the season, which left us thin in central midfield. - we have had to rely on a natural right back playing at left back for the most of the season - we have had a central defender playing at right wing back - one of our most reliable midfielders in lampard went missing for most of the season, and he is a shadow of his former self. - we have had key players get injured at important times during the season But like i already mentioned, we haven't been consistent enough overall. It has been a long season, many fixtures and a lot of the teams have been resilient in the league this year. We should have beaten the sides we lost/drew too, especially at home, but overall, it hasn't been bad.
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