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Ruben Loftus-Cheek


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7 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

To be honest, much as I would love for it to be, he really isn't kicking doors down and demanding a place with his performances.

And yet Kovacic, who also has knocked down zero doors (same as Morata) gets a free pass into the first team, all down to where we bought/loaned them from.

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14 minutes ago, coco said:

And yet Kovacic, who also has knocked down zero doors (same as Morata) gets a free pass into the first team, all down to where we bought/loaned them from.

Odd you see it that way.  I'm more worried in him playing himself out of a permanent move.  I think with the way Sarri plays the left center mid is very demanding - technical enough to combine with Hazard / Alonso, and a good enough defender to cover some for Alonso to make his runs.  I think Kovacic has been a very important player. I'd love to see RLC succeed probably more than most here (his brother was very good to me). I'm just not sure RLC is a center mid the way Sarri plays, he's very good on the ball, and the wider he gets the better he looks.

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59 minutes ago, coco said:

And yet Kovacic, who also has knocked down zero doors (same as Morata) gets a free pass into the first team, all down to where we bought/loaned them from.

Kovacic is one of the if not the reason our defense calmed down after that mental half against Arsenal. He covers Alonso's forays forward and helps us maintain the shape, people blamed Luiz and Alonso for our early season defensive horrors but it was in large part down to Barkley being defensively naive, something Kovacic isn't.

On the ball it's similar, Kovacic knows exactly what to do with the ball before he receives it, he has a picture in his head of what to do, Ruben just doesn't have that natural football brain. 

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I thought he played well yesterday all things considered. He has barely played a game since May, and this a radically different team to what he has been accustomed to. I'm not his biggest fan, I've never been overly excited when he played in the youth teams. 

However, I just don't think you can look at that perfomance last night and say Barkley has played better in any game this season. Barkley seems to get away with a lot of criticism on here, maybe because he's English, I'm not sure. 

There isn't much between them, Barkley gives the ball away in dangerous areas every singles game. RLC lacks intensity to grab games by the scruff of the neck. I just think RLC can do things Barkley can't, and he much more composed on the ball.

There's plenty of support to give Barkley a chance, because he is coming back from an injury and has massive potential, but what about giving RLC minutes to improve under sarri? He will make mistakes, every one does, especially Barkley. 

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He just need minutes, he had few poor minutes this season and got forgotten. With yesterday's performance, he was our best midfielder if you ask me. He pushed forward, made dangerous dribbles on the opponent. He didn't deserve to get off in the 60th minute, I think he was subbed off due to his injury. 

We can develop him, make him a better player, but only if he will get minutes. 

Chalobah - left Chelsea, got into the England National team.

Mount - left Chelsea, on loan at Derby. Got into the England National team.

Abraham - left Chelsea on loan. Got into the England National team. 

RLC by himself was in the world cup with England when he played for Crystal Palace and had his minutes.

 

We have a really good talent here, he must get his chance to play. Or he will be thinking about leaving which will be the better option for him because he will get a better opportunity to success.

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Just now, Ilya said:

He may or may not deserve/warrant more minutes, but getting him into the national team is not our main objective.

It's probably not even his main objective.

I didn't say it's our main objective. What I was saying is when a player is getting his minutes and proving himself, then he gets a reward and representing the national team in the world cup is definitely an honour. 

The whole of our squad didn't even make the world cup. He showed a good season at Crystal Palace, he played himself very well in the Premier League. I don't see why he can't be a better player with us. He has a great manager behind him, great players around him and different stage of football. 

 

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1 minute ago, IliyaKrostin said:

He showed a good season at Crystal Palace, he played himself very well in the Premier League. I don't see why he can't be a better player with us. He has a great manager behind him, great players around him and different stage of football

This might be the case. I don't feel I know yet - one way or the other. And in a complicated balancing act between prioritizing winning games now and prioritizing player development I tend to lean towards games now. But it's a personal preference.

 

I also think it's worth noting that of you list of players - none have conquered the world "once away from Chelsea". England call up - yes. Real Madrid call up - not so much... :)

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1 minute ago, Ilya said:

This might be the case. I don't feel I know yet - one way or the other. And in a complicated balancing act between prioritizing winning games now and prioritizing player development I tend to lean towards games now. But it's a personal preference.

 

I also think it's worth noting that of you list of players - none have conquered the world "once away from Chelsea". England call up - yes. Real Madrid call up - not so much... :)

The way we use our academy players is pretty poor. We have one of the best academies in the world and have real talented players, but it seems like they will never get a proper chance with us. 

Those youngsters have got confidence and had their chance to play, so they did it so well and got received an invitation to the national team. If they all were staying at Chelsea, the only thing they were seeing is bench. 

We can win games and titles with our youngsters, we just don't take the risks and every time buy another player and another player. I will have nothing to say, if the youngster will fail to play as the team wants and we will have to look for a replacement, that's a professional and correct decision. But we don't even know how can they perform at the top level...

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1 minute ago, IliyaKrostin said:

The way we use our academy players is pretty poor. We have one of the best academies in the world and have real talented players, but it seems like they will never get a proper chance with us. 

Those youngsters have got confidence and had their chance to play, so they did it so well and got received an invitation to the national team. If they all were staying at Chelsea, the only thing they were seeing is bench. 

We can win games and titles with our youngsters, we just don't take the risks and every time buy another player and another player. I will have nothing to say, if the youngster will fail to play as the team wants and we will have to look for a replacement, that's a professional and correct decision. But we don't even know how can they perform at the top level...

For all the criticism of the youth set up, has one academy boy come back to haunt us? Not one has left and shown we were wrong for not playing them, if/when that happens then yes we need to have a long hard look at the system but none of the players we have let go have proven we were wrong yet.

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16 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

We have one of the best academies in the world and have real talented players, but it seems like they will never get a proper chance with us. 

I think this idea that because a player hasn't had a lot of minutes we just don't know how amazing they could be - is somewhat exaggerated. Managers see them in training, they have a pretty decent idea. Yes, the games are the ultimate test, and some will fail under pressure - but if you are not producing magic in training, it's not going to suddenly materialize in a game.

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3 hours ago, Ilya said:

I think this idea that because a player hasn't had a lot of minutes we just don't know how amazing they could be - is somewhat exaggerated. Managers see them in training, they have a pretty decent idea. Yes, the games are the ultimate test, and some will fail under pressure - but if you are not producing magic in training, it's not going to suddenly materialize in a game.

Exactly, if our coaches can only work out a players quality by watching them play numerous games on the spin with the Chelsea first team they should all be sacked on the spot.

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38 minutes ago, Gilvorak said:

Some of you are weird. He was our best midfielder yesterday.

It's not like anybody is saying he was bad in the game, just not that great. I don't think any of our players played a great game. I actually thought most of them had a poor game. Even if Loftus-Cheek was our best midfielder, it doesn't mean he had a great game. He had an ok game, but he didn't really offer much. It was very safe but for one moment where he burst into the area.

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13 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

It's not like anybody is saying he was bad in the game, just not that great. I don't think any of our players played a great game. I actually thought most of them had a poor game. Even if Loftus-Cheek was our best midfielder, it doesn't mean he had a great game. He had an ok game, but he didn't really offer much. It was very safe but for one moment where he burst into the area.

Then why is it all being brought up in this thread. Where are people moaning in Kovacic's and Cesc's threads? Of course someone that rarely gets an opportunity is going to be more conservative with the ball until he has a run in the team and builds a bit of confidence. There's a double standard on this forum.

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Then why is it all being brought up in this thread. Where are people moaning in Kovacic's and Cesc's threads? Of course someone that rarely gets an opportunity is going to be more conservative with the ball until he has a run in the team and builds a bit of confidence. There's a double standard on this forum.

I think it's more because we are still waiting for that moment where Loftus-Cheek shows something more than being just decent. With Crystal Palace, England and Chelsea, he hasn't shown anything more than this so far. I don't think anybody would say anything about his performance on Thursday if we had seen something a bit more in his career so far. 

He's getting more attention than other players when he plays because he is the one we are still waiting to see something from. With Kovacic and Fabregas, we have seen how good they can be and we know they will have good games again, we still don't know where we are with Loftus-Cheek. We don't know what kind of player he is, we don't know if he can push himself beyond being just decent, there is more to discuss about Loftus-Cheek.

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13 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think it's more because we are still waiting for that moment where Loftus-Cheek shows something more than being just decent. With Crystal Palace, England and Chelsea, he hasn't shown anything more than this so far. I don't think anybody would say anything about his performance on Thursday if we had seen something a bit more in his career so far. 

He's getting more attention than other players when he plays because he is the one we are still waiting to see something from. With Kovacic and Fabregas, we have seen how good they can be and we know they will have good games again, we still don't know where we are with Loftus-Cheek. We don't know what kind of player he is, we don't know if he can push himself beyond being just decent, there is more to discuss about Loftus-Cheek.

I'd be more annoyed at a player, who as you say we know can control games, having an average game and contributing to our struggles. People were waxing lyrical about Barkley at the start of the season when to this day he's done nothing more than RLC did this game, at least people are starting to see that.

Kovacic i still struggle to see what he does for us in an attacking sense. He adds balance to the team but i believe he's more suited to the Kante role than the attacking role he takes up. People speak of kovacic as the answer to all our problems but what has he really done, outside of the assist for Eden against Liverpool? Covers our marauding full back? Brilliant, we could sign any old runner to do that. 90% of the games Kovacic has played he's just played it safe, which is what RLC gets moaned at for. With Kovacic its praised.

I've gone into detail previously about RLC having great games for us, England and Palace so i won't go over that again. He can turn it on and change a game with a mazy run, as we nearly saw for the blatant penalty he should have had. Can't see Barkley having the ability to make those runs and Kovacic would've knocked it off to someone else in the final third long before having the possibility of making that run.

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31 minutes ago, Argo said:

Is RLC's as good/better than Kovacic going to be the new Torres is better than Eto'o? Ie fundamentally not true in the slightest but going to be said to death anyway.

Different positions, different era's, different times of their careers (one at begining one at end) but yeah, you carry on comparing.

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The problem with RLC as I see it is that while he does a number of things quite well, there is no particular quality I can point to that would justify starting him ahead of either Barkley or Kovacic on a regular basis. 

For example, RLC (like Barkley) is a pretty good passer and retains possession better than Barkley does. However, for mine Kovacic has him covered in both departments. 

RLC is a reasonably good playmaker and while at Crystal Palace he wasn't averse to playing long balls, most often from left midfield or thereabouts - but I rarely see him make that defining killer/through ball to split a defence. Indeed, Kovacic has not only displayed impressive playmaking qualities throughout his career but for mine is altogether more likely to make that defining through/killer ball than RLC is, having done so both at Inter Milan and Real Madrid. According to statistics, even Barkley has made a decent number of those killer passes throughout his career; more than I originally thought anyway. 

RLC has a good first touch, but Barkley/Kovacic share this quality.

RLC's forward movement is reasonably good. However, I believe that Kovacic is on par in that department (witness his chance against Cardiff) and I believe that Barkley is more dangerous going forward owing to his superior finishing and thus goal threat. 

RLC is a stronger lad than the other two, but he can be a little bit lackadaisical in exercising his defensive duties. Kovacic for mine displays a better work ethic and while Barkley could be lax in his Everton days, he has IMO gradually improved his work rate while at Chelsea (his efforts in dispossessing that Southampton player before playing Hazard through yesterday was a case in point). 

Like the rest of us I think it would be great for a youth product to command a first-team place in this Chelsea side. However, I'm not convinced that RLC will this season, barring injury. 

 

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On 05/10/2018 at 21:24, Ilya said:

I think this idea that because a player hasn't had a lot of minutes we just don't know how amazing they could be - is somewhat exaggerated. Managers see them in training, they have a pretty decent idea. Yes, the games are the ultimate test, and some will fail under pressure - but if you are not producing magic in training, it's not going to suddenly materialize in a game.

I wonder if Kevin De Bruyne or Salah ever produced magic in training?

Surely Mourinho must have noticed we had quality players in training?

I'm afraid to say this proves players do need minutes to show they can be amazing...training isn't enough...

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