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Zola

Ruben Loftus-Cheek


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13 hours ago, big blue said:

Had this discussion with a mate of mine a while ago. I dont know whether it is just me looking back with rose tinted glasses, but there doesnt seem to be as many genius or magical moments and players in football these days. They still happen obviously, but I feel like kids have some of their natural instincts coached out of them, so there are less off the cuff moments.

I helped coach a few youth teams over the years and was sick of seeing any young lad who tried to play off the cuff get slaughtered by coaches for "not sticking to the game plan", because thats the important thing in under 11`s football eh....

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Good and interesting observations. Not something I've given much thought too but think there is something in it. Does seem to be a reduction in players with natural talent & ability. There are still some TOP players who are capable of incredible things but you definitely don't get as much of those magical / memorable moments (like Hazard produces), that make football the great game it is. Players like Gazza, Le Tissier, Zola, Joey Cole, Jay-Jay Okocha etc, those sort of players - you do wonder if they would have made it in today's football with so much emphasis on players being "good all-rounders", having physical presence and being able to track back. Messi seems to be the obvious exception but he is a one-off.

 

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7 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Good and interesting observations. Not something I've given much thought too but think there is something in it. Does seem to be a reduction in players with natural talent & ability. There are still some TOP players who are capable of incredible things but you definitely don't get as much of those magical / memorable moments (like Hazard produces), that make football the great game it is. Players like Gazza, Le Tissier, Zola, Joey Cole, Jay-Jay Okocha etc, those sort of players - you do wonder if they would have made it in today's football with so much emphasis on players being "good all-rounders", having physical presence and being able to track back. Messi seems to be the obvious exception but he is a one-off.

Peter Beardsley and Steve McMananum are others I think fit into this category. 

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4 hours ago, dkw said:

I helped coach a few youth teams over the years and was sick of seeing any young lad who tried to play off the cuff get slaughtered by coaches for "not sticking to the game plan", because thats the important thing in under 11`s football eh....

Sounds about right. When I was playing youth football, 2 of the best players I'd played with or against, were released simply for being too short, at 14! 

 

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1 hour ago, big blue said:

Sounds about right. When I was playing youth football, 2 of the best players I'd played with or against, were released simply for being too short, at 14! 

 

Imagine if Zola had been told he was too short and never had a professional career :face_palm:

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On 05/04/2019 at 07:17, evissy said:

There is no reason Ruben isn’t the first choice now with Jorginho and Kante. Barkley and Kovacic produce absolutely nothing. We need goals from everyone and those two can't score for us. Ruben on the other hand made us look quick and he is a constant scoring threat. 

You do realise how many contradictions that post has I hope?

If not let's start with the "goals from everyone" bit and compare Barkley , Kovacic and Jorginho.

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18 minutes ago, just said:

You do realise how many contradictions that post has I hope?

If not let's start with the "goals from everyone" bit and compare Barkley , Kovacic and Jorginho.

Barkley is one goal ahead of Jorginho in the league.

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10 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Barkley is one goal ahead of Jorginho in the league.

What about in all games? What about goals / minutes played? What about assists?

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5 minutes ago, just said:

What about in all games? What about goals / minutes played? What about assists?

Fair point. Jorginho is a defensive midfielder really and I’m pretty sure he would have more assists if we could finish.

Either way really disappointing return from all midfielders, perhaps apart from Kante who isn’t a goal scorer naturally. It’s ridiculous that Kante got more goals than Barkley and Kovacic.

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Just now, dansubrosa said:

Fair point. Jorginho is a defensive midfielder really and I’m pretty sure he would have more assists if we could finish.

Either way really disappointing return from all midfielders, perhaps apart from Kante who isn’t a goal scorer naturally. It’s ridiculous that Kante got more goals than Barkley and Kovacic.

Barkley would probably have more assists if we could finish, and would probably have more goals if he had been given the minutes Jorginho has had. Jorginho has been a major part of our problems this season IMO. I can't think of a player less suited to the EPL since Cuadrado.

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2 hours ago, just said:

Barkley would probably have more assists if we could finish, and would probably have more goals if he had been given the minutes Jorginho has had. Jorginho has been a major part of our problems this season IMO. I can't think of a player less suited to the EPL since Cuadrado.

Bakayoko. 

I still think Jorginho is a player but it's the wrong system. He's not as bad as Bakayoko and generally has been fine for the past month. I think he'd only improve next year. 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Bakayoko. 

I still think Jorginho is a player but it's the wrong system. He's not as bad as Bakayoko and generally has been fine for the past month. I think he'd only improve next year.

It's not the wrong system, its the exact system he's perfect for. The problem has been the rest of the team being slow to adapt to that system. Jorginho is the metronome, he only works out if he can play quick passes to get moves started. If the other players aren't in the right positions at the right times, then he can't do that and has to pass sideways/back, because the system requires him to pass quickly. At Napoli if the opposition tried to mark him out the game, there were other players ready to compensate for that and keep the system working. This whole thing is going to take time, and we really need a full pre-season of practice to really capitalize on the progress they've made this year. 

I know people moan and say there's no signs of improvement, but there have been signs it just hasn't been consistent.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Kentonio said:

It's not the wrong system, its the exact system he's perfect for. The problem has been the rest of the team being slow to adapt to that system. Jorginho is the metronome, he only works out if he can play quick passes to get moves started. If the other players aren't in the right positions at the right times, then he can't do that and has to pass sideways/back, because the system requires him to pass quickly. At Napoli if the opposition tried to mark him out the game, there were other players ready to compensate for that and keep the system working. This whole thing is going to take time, and we really need a full pre-season of practice to really capitalize on the progress they've made this year. 

 I know people moan and say there's no signs of improvement, but there have been signs it just hasn't been consistent.

I agree with this, 

I think its the wrong system because the players around him aren't performing. I have said all season, when the team plays badly, Jorginho plays awfully. So we agree on that. 

I also wonder how well suited the system is to the PL where it is much faster paced and so the players need to be even quicker in the mind. If that is the case, I see no reason why Jorginho can't perform for us as a deep lying player but with closer support from a Kante /Drinkwater/Matic type figure. Like Fab had.

Edited by bisright1

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25 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

I agree with this, 

I think its the wrong system because the players around him aren't performing. I have said all season, when the team plays badly, Jorginho plays awfully. So we agree on that. 

I also wonder how well suited the system is to the PL where it is much faster paced and so the players need to be even quicker in the mind. If that is the case, I see no reason why Jorginho can't perform for us as a deep lying player but with closer support from a Kante /Drinkwater/Matic type figure. Like Fab had.

I would have thought if we were going to keep Jorginho and Kante then a Drinkwater type of player would be ideal though suspect it is not him, someone that is box to box and can tackle, shoot and pass, a total midfielder in other words. I don't think we currently have that player, it is not either Barkley or RLC.

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4 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

f**king hell. He was on the pitch for 20 minutes. 

 

So what (?) - he's paid enough to shine for 20 minutes.  Needs to take his chances when he gets them.  Looked like he was auditioning for a Zombie movie - if he is Chelsea's future then we may as well give up.

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Yep, very disappointing. I was screaming for him to come on from about the 50 minute mark. Then when he eventually does get on, he's nowhere near up to pace. He gets accused of being too laid back and too many more half-hearted displays like today and he won't be getting selected. HAS to up his game.

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On 25/04/2019 at 09:39, just said:

Barkley would probably have more assists if we could finish, and would probably have more goals if he had been given the minutes Jorginho has had. Jorginho has been a major part of our problems this season IMO. I can't think of a player less suited to the EPL since Cuadrado.

Barkley has been much worse than Jorginho. Jorginho at least looks to pass forward, Barkley plays sideways and backwards 99% of the time. Jorginho has laid chances on a plate for people, only for them to miss. Jorginho will keep improving in this league, unfortunately I think Barkley hit his ceiling at Everton and certainly isn't good enough for us. 

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Yeah we need another player in AM that's for sure. This season has just been full of players in the starting XI being absolutely awful, just for their replacement to come in and not really be that good either.

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5 hours ago, DidierDidier said:

Barkley has been much worse than Jorginho. Jorginho at least looks to pass forward, Barkley plays sideways and backwards 99% of the time. Jorginho has laid chances on a plate for people, only for them to miss. Jorginho will keep improving in this league, unfortunately I think Barkley hit his ceiling at Everton and certainly isn't good enough for us. 

Ah statement and lies. Would be great if you could take the time and effort to try and back that with some facts or stats. Here's one from me. Mata was more effective than Jorginho today.

Barkley might have been too, but he wasn't given the opportunity.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DidierDidier said:

Barkley has been much worse than Jorginho. Jorginho at least looks to pass forward, Barkley plays sideways and backwards 99% of the time. Jorginho has laid chances on a plate for people, only for them to miss. Jorginho will keep improving in this league, unfortunately I think Barkley hit his ceiling at Everton and certainly isn't good enough for us. 

Jorginho goals - 2

Barkley goals - 5

Jorginho assists - 0

Barkley assists - 6

I put it to you Sir, that you are talking twaddle.

(From whoscored.com)

Edited by just

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10 hours ago, just said:

Jorginho goals - 2

Barkley goals - 5

Jorginho assists - 0

Barkley assists - 6

I put it to you Sir, that you are talking twaddle.

(From whoscored.com)

Jorginho would have alot of assists if wasn't for bad attackers finishing. I can think of loads of times especially for Higuain where Jorginho put him through and Higuain missed.

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