Tammy Abraham

[just]

If only he could improve his hold up play and be stronger in the air he would be a shoe in.

[Scott Harris]

1 hour ago, just said:

If only he could improve his hold up play and be stronger in the air he would be a shoe in.

Yep. He's always had goals in him, but it's other parts of his game that he has issues with and what is stopping him going on to be a top footballer. Some of the things he lacks I don't think he will ever improve on. Things like his balance and hold up play I don't really see improving. 

I think Abraham can always be a squad player in a top team, but I'm not confident he will ever make it as a regular for a top team. 

[EdinburghBlue]

19 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

So criminally underrated by our own fans. Gets the usual, bambi on ice, sh*te touch etc which is the exact kind of criticisms that were levelled at Lukaku and now our fans are clamouring for us to re-sign him for £100m odd. I find it totally bizarre. Meanwhile Werner gets away with some shocking performances like last night and no one writes him off despite it not being the first time. 
 

Given our record with strikers we sign, we have a lot more misses than hits, it blows my mind folk are so happy to give up on Tammy. The way he’s being treated under TT is poor.

[Andy North]

13 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

So criminally underrated by our own fans. Gets the usual, bambi on ice, sh*te touch etc which is the exact kind of criticisms that were levelled at Lukaku and now our fans are clamouring for us to re-sign him for £100m odd. I find it totally bizarre. Meanwhile Werner gets away with some shocking performances like last night and no one writes him off despite it not being the first time. 
 

Given our record with strikers we sign, we have a lot more misses than hits, it blows my mind folk are so happy to give up on Tammy. The way he’s being treated under TT is poor.

This is very true. Werner has had more than enough time to play himself into form. Tammy's hold up play isn't that bad and he does score. 

He deserves a good run in the team. 

[nonotnowjim]

1 hour ago, EdinburghBlue said:

So criminally underrated by our own fans. Gets the usual, bambi on ice, sh*te touch etc which is the exact kind of criticisms that were levelled at Lukaku and now our fans are clamouring for us to re-sign him for £100m odd. I find it totally bizarre. Meanwhile Werner gets away with some shocking performances like last night and no one writes him off despite it not being the first time. 
 

Given our record with strikers we sign, we have a lot more misses than hits, it blows my mind folk are so happy to give up on Tammy. The way he’s being treated under TT is poor.

And yet despite those stats, Tammy is not clamoured for, linked with clubs or valued anywhere near as highly as the likes of Haaland, DCL, lautaro or Joao Felix. So clearly it isn't just Chelsea fans who don't value Tammy, as although he has been linked to teams like Aston Villa, there is certainly no bidding war a-la Haaland, or world record transfers a-la Felix.

One of 2 things is happening - either Tammy is being undervalued/ underrated by both Chelsea fans and other clubs scouting teams.  Or he simply isn't at the same level of those other players.

I don't know the answer, and don't watch enough of the other strikers listed to know their games inside out -  however, I would suspect that none of them fall over as much as Tammy does, and would guess that top tier clubs are not busting a gut to sign him because he is not at the same level. 

 

[Gol15]

I think we should try the Havertz-Tammy up front vs Palace because we need goals and Werner simply isn't playing good enough. Kai and Tammy have shown a good understanding for each others game.

[EdinburghBlue]

24 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

And yet despite those stats, Tammy is not clamoured for, linked with clubs or valued anywhere near as highly as the likes of Haaland, DCL, lautaro or Joao Felix. So clearly it isn't just Chelsea fans who don't value Tammy, as although he has been linked to teams like Aston Villa, there is certainly no bidding war a-la Haaland, or world record transfers a-la Felix.

One of 2 things is happening - either Tammy is being undervalued/ underrated by both Chelsea fans and other clubs scouting teams.  Or he simply isn't at the same level of those other players.

I don't know the answer, and don't watch enough of the other strikers listed to know their games inside out -  however, I would suspect that none of them fall over as much as Tammy does, and would guess that top tier clubs are not busting a gut to sign him because he is not at the same level. 

 

Comparing him to Haaland who is a generational striker by any definition of the word and Felix who was touted “the next Ronaldo” in a lot of corners of the media isn’t really fair and not many strikers are at those levels although from (the little) I’ve seen of Felix - I don’t think he’s lived up to the hype thus far, admittedly I don’t watch him a lot. There was a massive fanfare over Belotti before and look how that’s turned out.
 

We sold Lukaku to Everton, who were nothing more than a mid table club, not dissimilar to Aston Villa at the time so I’m not sure what point that proves? Other than strikers don’t tend to peak in their early 20’s (rare cases like Haaland excluded).

[Guest Sindre]

It's worth remembering most of Abrahams goals are from the Championship + domestic cups.

Not trying to take anything away from him but his record against better competition isn't that great.

Hope he gets his chance against Crystal Palace though. If I were him i'd probably stay at this club as second choice fighting for first choice then going to a midtable side. Actually think he could struggle to remain a starter for those teams too. Too much of a poacher and for those sides you better be able to do a bit of everything.

[coco]

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

It's worth remembering most of Abrahams goals are from the Championship + domestic cups.

Not trying to take anything away from him but his record against better competition isn't that great.

Hope he gets his chance against Crystal Palace though. If I were him i'd probably stay at this club as second choice fighting for first choice then going to a midtable side. Actually think he could struggle to remain a starter for those teams too. Too much of a poacher and for those sides you better be able to do a bit of everything.

Wrong !

Majority of his goals are EPL goals.

[Guest Sindre]

2 minutes ago, coco said:

Wrong !

Majority of his goals are EPL goals.

48 in the Championship, 26 in the EPL, 11 from the cups and 4 from the CL is the correct numbers in terms of goals I believe.

[coco]

5 minutes ago, Sindre said:

48 in the Championship, 26 in the EPL, 11 from the cups and 4 from the CL is the correct numbers in terms of goals I believe.

yeah my bad thought you meant this season, but i do think its unfair to compare his epl goal record to his championship record. if giroud or werner played championship football they would have scored plenty of goals and had worse epl records by comparison.

[Guest Sindre]

5 minutes ago, coco said:

yeah my bad thought you meant this season, but i do think its unfair to compare his epl goal record to his championship record. if giroud or werner played championship football they would have scored plenty of goals and had worse epl records by comparison.

Agreed.

All I was saying is that his numbers are a bit inflated from time (and scoring lots) in the Championship. With regards to that list someone posted earlier.

[coco]

 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I think we should try the Havertz-Tammy up front vs Palace because we need goals and Werner simply isn't playing good enough. Kai and Tammy have shown a good understanding for each others game.

I'm all for Tammy getting some time again, but Werner must start almost every game, and Havertz, we have to find out one way or the other if they can handle it. So far it doesn't look good but only a fool would give up this early on them. Tammy can be on the fringe getting the odd start against the likes of Fulham and Palace, impact player from the bench, and cover for injury to Werner.

[Gol15]

10 minutes ago, coco said:

 

I'm all for Tammy getting some time again, but Werner must start almost every game, and Havertz, we have to find out one way or the other if they can handle it. So far it doesn't look good but only a fool would give up this early on them. Tammy can be on the fringe getting the odd start against the likes of Fulham and Palace, impact player from the bench, and cover for injury to Werner.

Why does Werner need to start almost every game? Play Tammy, Havertz, Mount or Pulisic and we might look more dangerous?

[coco]

3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Why does Werner need to start almost every game? 

To hasten a resolve to the problem we have up front, either make him or break him, i believe he will succeed if Tommy keeps persevering with him.

[nonotnowjim]

1 hour ago, coco said:

yeah my bad thought you meant this season, but i do think its unfair to compare his epl goal record to his championship record. if giroud or werner played championship football they would have scored plenty of goals and had worse epl records by comparison.

It was the post on Twitter (I think) from the "expected Chelsea" account, that compared Tammys goal record, favourably, to other strikers.

I agree with you, that it's not fair to ridicule or downplay Tammy for scoring a lot of goals in the championship,  but equally, those same goals should not be held up as a reliable positive stat to compare him favourably against other players, who have not played in the championship. 
 

 

 

[Imran_CFC]

56 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Agreed.

All I was saying is that his numbers are a bit inflated from time (and scoring lots) in the Championship. With regards to that list someone posted earlier.

At the same time majority of Haaland's goals are in the Austrian League.

Everyone can see that Haaland will do well in the PL and he is younger then Tammy but the truth is Tammy is only 23 and a few years away from his prime, he has already been a top scorer for a team which qualified for the CL last season and is also the top scorer for us so far this season, which clearly means he is good enough to play for a top 4 team.

He may not be at the level currently to lead a charge for the title but he certainly is good enough to push a top striker for a starting position and in a few years when he enters his prime I believe he is good enough to be a starter for a PL winning team. I have no doubt in my mind that he should be starting regularly for this team which is clearly struggling for consistency up front and Tammy is arguably the biggest goal threat we have,

[Imran_CFC]

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

It was the post on Twitter (I think) from the "expected Chelsea" account, that compared Tammys goal record, favourably, to other strikers.

I agree with you, that it's not fair to ridicule or downplay Tammy for scoring a lot of goals in the championship,  but equally, those same goals should not be held up as a reliable positive stat to compare him favourably against other players, who have not played in the championship. 
 

 

 

But majority of youngsters will be playing at a lower level coming up through the ranks, either in a lower level league or in a inferior league based upon Country. If a youngster is a youth product he may go to the lower league on loan (Such as Tammy) or play against weaker opposition to get acclimatized to senior football. You will get exceptions such as Mbappe, Rashford & Haaland who are fast tracked due to their quality or circumstances at the club but the stats mainly outline whether the youngster has the potential to play at the top level.

The stats show that Tammy clearly has the ability to operate at an incredibly high level, he struggles for consistency and at times is reliant upon team members around him as opposed to names mentioned above who may be able to create something themselves but I think he is good enough to be a big part of our success in the next decade.

[dkw]

 

22 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

At the same time majority of Haaland's goals are in the Austrian League.

Everyone can see that Haaland will do well in the PL and he is younger then Tammy but the truth is Tammy is only 23 and a few years away from his prime, he has already been a top scorer for a team which qualified for the CL last season and is also the top scorer for us so far this season, which clearly means he is good enough to play for a top 4 team.

He may not be at the level currently to lead a charge for the title but he certainly is good enough to push a top striker for a starting position and in a few years when he enters his prime I believe he is good enough to be a starter for a PL winning team. I have no doubt in my mind that he should be starting regularly for this team which is clearly struggling for consistency up front and Tammy is arguably the biggest goal threat we have,

Its strange when I see people bring up that you cant compare Abraham to the other players because he scored in the championship, the other players on these lists also have their stats padded out from "lesser league" goals as you say. Abraham has proven he can score in the premier league, he has proven he can score in the champions league, he has scored more than any other striker at our club at the moment, yet has been side-lined completely by Tuchel for some reason, who then plays Havertz there which has no purpose and does nothing for the team or the player. Very odd.

[nonotnowjim]

7 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

But majority of youngsters will be playing at a lower level coming up through the ranks, either in a lower level league or in a inferior league based upon Country. If a youngster is a youth product he may go to the lower league on loan (Such as Tammy) or play against weaker opposition to get acclimatized to senior football. You will get exceptions such as Mbappe, Rashford & Haaland who are fast tracked due to their quality or circumstances at the club but the stats mainly outline whether the youngster has the potential to play at the top level.

The stats show that Tammy clearly has the ability to operate at an incredibly high level, he struggles for consistency and at times is reliant upon team members around him as opposed to names mentioned above who may be able to create something themselves but I think he is good enough to be a big part of our success in the next decade.

And THAT is the problem with stats. The stats indicate that he can operate at a high level, the stats show that Tammy is our leading goalscorer and main man up front....but stats rarely tell the full story.

Tammys goals this season

1 goal against Barnsley in 6v0

1 goal, a last min equaliser against WBA in the league, winning us 1 point.

1 goal agains Rennes, scoring the 3rd goal in a 3v0 win

1 goal against Sheffield Utd, in a 4v1 win

1 goal against Newcastle, scoring the 2nd goal in a 2v0 win

2 goals against West Ham, scoring the 2nd and 3rd goals in a 3v0 win

1 goal against arsenal, in a 3v1 loss

3 goals against Luton, in a 3v1 win

1 goal against Barnsley in a 1v0 win

 

So, the stats show that Tammy is our top scorer, with 12 goals this season. But....

- His goals only won us 1 point in the EPL (the last min equaliser against west brom. I will also acknowledge that his goals against wet ham, although not changing the outcome, made the game more comfortable.

- 5 of those 12 goals were scored against Luton and Barnsley.

- 3 of those goals (Barnsley, Rennes and Sheffield Utd) came in big wins, when the team were clearly playing well and superior to the other team

- the only goal he has scored this year against a team in the top half the table was against west ham.

- In this time, he has had 1 premier league assist (against Burnley in a 3v0 win) and 1 against Krasnodar in the champ league group stage

 

So, although you may argue his stats "clearly has the ability to operate at an incredibly high level'',  it can also be argued that the impact he is having on the team clearly shows he doesn't.

I hope he gets his chance and takes it, as that will benefit the club moving forward, but I have serious reservations and little hope that he will turn into the beast that we all hope he can be,

 

 

 

[nonotnowjim]

11 minutes ago, dkw said:

 

Its strange when I see people bring up that you cant compare Abraham to the other players because he scored in the championship, the other players on these lists also have their stats padded out from "lesser league" goals as you say. Abraham has proven he can score in the premier league, he has proven he can score in the champions league, he has scored more than any other striker at our club at the moment, yet has been side-lined completely by Tuchel for some reason, who then plays Havertz there which has no purpose and does nothing for the team or the player. Very odd.

Then if we are to agree with you and conclude that a goal is a goal, wherever it is scored, then it begs the question why there is no frenzy around Tammy like with others on that list.  Why are city, Madrid, Barca Juve etc not chasing Tammy? If we are genuinely saying that Tammy goal record can be judged up there with the likes of Haaland, then it would be normal to assume that there would be a mad rush from the worlds best teams to try and buy him....but so far, only the likes of Aston Villa seem to be the level of clubs linked.  

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by nonotnowjim

[Imran_CFC]

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

And THAT is the problem with stats. The stats indicate that he can operate at a high level, the stats show that Tammy is our leading goalscorer and main man up front....but stats rarely tell the full story.

Tammys goals this season

1 goal against Barnsley in 6v0

1 goal, a last min equaliser against WBA in the league, winning us 1 point.

1 goal agains Rennes, scoring the 3rd goal in a 3v0 win

1 goal against Sheffield Utd, in a 4v1 win

1 goal against Newcastle, scoring the 2nd goal in a 2v0 win

2 goals against West Ham, scoring the 2nd and 3rd goals in a 3v0 win

1 goal against arsenal, in a 3v1 loss

3 goals against Luton, in a 3v1 win

1 goal against Barnsley in a 1v0 win

 

So, the stats show that Tammy is our top scorer, with 12 goals this season. But....

- His goals only won us 1 point in the EPL (the last min equaliser against west brom. I will also acknowledge that his goals against wet ham, although not changing the outcome, made the game more comfortable.

- 5 of those 12 goals were scored against Luton and Barnsley.

- 3 of those goals (Barnsley, Rennes and Sheffield Utd) came in big wins, when the team were clearly playing well and superior to the other team

- the only goal he has scored this year against a team in the top half the table was against west ham.

- In this time, he has had 1 premier league assist (against Burnley in a 3v0 win) and 1 against Krasnodar in the champ league group stage

 

So, although you may argue his stats "clearly has the ability to operate at an incredibly high level'',  it can also be argued that the impact he is having on the team clearly shows he doesn't.

I hope he gets his chance and takes it, as that will benefit the club moving forward, but I have serious reservations and little hope that he will turn into the beast that we all hope he can be,

 

 

 

I would like to go into a bit more detail on his goals and assists but unfortunately I don't have time however my statement above takes into account that he was top scorer last season for a team which finished top 4 in the Premier League, that in itself should be sufficient evidence that he is good enough striker for a top 4 team especially considering he was 22 at the time.

Off the top of my head against Sheffield his goal was the equalizer in a big win, without that we may have struggled, against West Ham his goals definitely got us the win as we didnt play well enough and West Ham were all over us before Tammy settled the game for us.

Against Barnsley the goal was vital as I couldnt see us scoring and we may well have got eliminated.

Tammy has his limitations but he is not as bad as you are making him out to be.

[nonotnowjim]

11 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I would like to go into a bit more detail on his goals and assists but unfortunately I don't have time however my statement above takes into account that he was top scorer last season for a team which finished top 4 in the Premier League, that in itself should be sufficient evidence that he is good enough striker for a top 4 team especially considering he was 22 at the time.

Off the top of my head against Sheffield his goal was the equalizer in a big win, without that we may have struggled, against West Ham his goals definitely got us the win as we didnt play well enough and West Ham were all over us before Tammy settled the game for us.

Against Barnsley the goal was vital as I couldnt see us scoring and we may well have got eliminated.

Tammy has his limitations but he is not as bad as you are making him out to be.

Im not making him out to be bad. I have not said much negative about him at all. I am simply challenging the twitter post you quoted, which favourably compares him to the players on that list....and challenging that stats alone don't tell the whole story.

Case in point, CIES recently used stats to name Jorginho the best player in the EPL. Clearly, it is nonsense. Just like Tammy is not anywhere close to those players on the list you posted, simply because he has favourable goal stats.

Edited April 8, 2021 by nonotnowjim

[Ernie_blue]

IMO Abraham sits in that bracket of strikers like Bamford, Calvert Lewin and Watkins. Play a whole season and they will score 15-20 goals minimum in the league. Just behind top strikers like Kane.

[Imran_CFC]

29 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Im not making him out to be bad. I have not said much negative about him at all. I am simply challenging the twitter post you quoted, which favourably compares him to the players on that list....and challenging that stats alone don't tell the whole story.

Case in point, CIES recently used stats to name Jorginho the best player in the EPL. Clearly, it is nonsense. Just like Tammy is not anywhere close to those players on the list you posted, simply because he has favourable goal stats.

I think it depends how you interpret the stats, if you interpret the stat to make a point that Tammy is as good as Haaland then clearly that is incorrect as anyone who understands football will know that Haaland is levels above Tammy. If you look at those stats and make a case that he should be starting more games for us as he clearly is a goal scorer then those stats help make your case considering at the moment we are struggling for goals.