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Tammy Abraham


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Since the last international break only Emerson, our 3rd choice left back, has played fewer minutes than Abraham, who has been on the pitch for a grand total of 17 minutes. 

Of Abraham's 1033 minutes played in the league only 140 of those have been under Tuchel. 

Tammy has 6 goals (joint top goal scorer) and 2 assists in the league meaning he contributes to a goal every 129 minutes. 

For a team that struggles to score goals to consistently leave out entirely your most natural goal scorer completely flies in the face of logic. 

 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Since the last international break only Emerson, our 3rd choice left back, has played fewer minutes than Abraham, who has been on the pitch for a grand total of 17 minutes. 

Of Abraham's 1033 minutes played in the league only 140 of those have been under Tuchel. 

Tammy has 6 goals (joint top goal scorer) and 2 assists in the league meaning he contributes to a goal every 129 minutes. 

For a team that struggles to score goals to consistently leave out entirely your most natural goal scorer completely flies in the face of logic. 

 

Unfortunately, despite being our joint top scorer, his goals/assists have rarely been game changing. 

To quote the stat for goals scored by itself, does not tell you even half the picture. He simply has not had much of an impact and his goals or assists have not won us many points. 

In most circumstances, I would agree with you that failing to play your top scorer would fly in the face of logic. But it is equally true that you should play the players who have the most impact on the team. Tammy isn't one of them. 

Giroud played for the the French World Cup winning team. He rarely scored, and by being picked he kept out of the team far more free scoring strikers. However those free scoring strikers didn't get selected because they didn't contribute enough overall and had a detrimental effect on the team. I would argue the same applies to Tammy. 

Oh, and Emerson has also scored more goals under Tuchel than Tammy. So if we are going by goal scoring as the sole driver for selection, perhaps we should play Emerson over Tammy!

Edited by nonotnowjim
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8 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Giroud played for the the French World Cup winning team. He rarely scored, and by being picked he kept out of the team far more free scoring strikers. However those free scoring strikers didn't get selected because they didn't contribute enough overall and had a detrimental effect on the team. I would argue the same applies to Tammy. 

But France had Griezmann and Mbappe in their starting XI who between them scored 8 goals in a combined 14 appearances. 

When you've got Kai Havertz and Timo Werner routinely missing gilt-edged chances the arguement instantly falls apart. 

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1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

For a team that struggles to score goals to consistently leave out entirely your most natural goal scorer completely flies in the face of logic. 

As much of a "natural goalscorer" he is he also missed a hell of a lot of chances under Lampard. Both last season and this one.

And he's a pure poacher that fall short on a lot of the basics. Considering how well we have done under Tuchel I think it's going to be hard to argue he should have played more.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

But France had Griezmann and Mbappe in their starting XI who between them scored 8 goals in a combined 14 appearances. 

When you've got Kai Havertz and Timo Werner routinely missing gilt-edged chances the arguement instantly falls apart. 

That all comes back down to a subjective argument.

You seem to think that Kai and Timo missing is justification for Tammy to play more.

Others like myself think that despite those misses, kai and timo add more to the team overall and contribute to more game/resulting changing goals or assists.  Seems like TT is also in this camp.

On the back of this season, the choices seem to be:

1) Play Werner, mindful that he is in awful goal scoring form, but accept that his overall contribution to the team, alongside his high combined goal/asssit output, that regularly impact games and results, means that he is the better choice.

2) Play Tammy, mindful that he can better finish chances, particularly against lower teams, but accept that this would come at the expense of the overall effectiveness of the team. Also accept that his goals rarely change games, and often come against lower team, or in big wins. Rarely scores important goals.

3) Play Giroud, mindful that he is our best finisher and best goal scorer on a per minutes basis,  but accept that playing him means we have little pace up top, and necessitates a different playing style for the entire team. 

Overall, whilst not perfect, it is an easy decision. You have to play Werner over Tammy. They are both clumsy, they both struggle to head the ball, they both struggle to hold up the ball. But the difference is that Timo regularly contributes important goals or assists that change games and results. Tammy doesn't. 

 

Edited by nonotnowjim
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4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Since the last international break only Emerson, our 3rd choice left back, has played fewer minutes than Abraham, who has been on the pitch for a grand total of 17 minutes. 

Of Abraham's 1033 minutes played in the league only 140 of those have been under Tuchel. 

Tammy has 6 goals (joint top goal scorer) and 2 assists in the league meaning he contributes to a goal every 129 minutes. 

For a team that struggles to score goals to consistently leave out entirely your most natural goal scorer completely flies in the face of logic. 

 

Clearly Tammy didn't get the chance he deserves under Tuchel, despite the fact that Tuchel made us better defensively and got the results. 

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2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Think is too late for him and Giroud now. They are too short of match fitness. So for better and for worse we are stuck with Timo and Kai as our false 9s.

If Tammy also leaves after Giroud leaves we would need a new striker on top of a difficult task to replace T.Silva and to find a new DM...

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26 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If Tammy also leaves after Giroud leaves we would need a new striker on top of a difficult task to replace T.Silva and to find a new DM...

I more meant for our last 4 games but yes I agree with you they are both likely going to leave in summer.

On a replacement maybe TT wants another false 9 option rather than a striker...

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Posted (edited)

His Girlfriend also agrees with you. Apparently she was posting on Social media:

"How on earth do you make the decision to leave your top goal scorer out of the squad for a final?’ and ‘The same person who even scored the goals to actually qualify for this competition?

www.metro.co.uk/2021/05/15/tammy-abrahams-girlfriend-slams-thomas-tuchel-after-fa-cup-final-snub-14588755/?ito=cbshare

 

She has a point. My views on Tammy are well known, but we would not have been in the final today if it was not for his goals in the competition this year. Personally, I feel like he should have had a place on the bench....

...But, my feelings are tempered slightly, but the photo of him sat in a Lambo.

 

 

 
Edited by nonotnowjim
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5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

His Girlfriend also agrees with you. Apparently she was posting on Social media:

"How on earth do you make the decision to leave your top goal scorer out of the squad for a final?’ and ‘The same person who even scored the goals to actually qualify for this competition?

www.metro.co.uk/2021/05/15/tammy-abrahams-girlfriend-slams-thomas-tuchel-after-fa-cup-final-snub-14588755/?ito=cbshare

 

She has a point. My views on Tammy are well known, but we would not have been in the final today if it was not for his goals in the competition this year. Personally, I feel like he should have had a place on the bench....

...But, my feelings are tempered slightly, but the photo of him sat in a Lambo.

 

 

 

Funny that Kepa deserved a place for getting us to the final, to a degree Ziyech and Alonso too, but Tammy did not deserve to be in the squad...

TT is full of sh*t and a hypocrite.

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Tammy is as useless as our other two strikers. We just miss him because we've forgotten how bad he is compared to the bad we are already using. We are cursed with strikers plain and simple. It cost us the league in 2014 and it will cost us success this season.

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5 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Tammy is as useless as our other two strikers. We just miss him because we've forgotten how bad he is compared to the bad we are already using. We are cursed with strikers plain and simple. It cost us the league in 2014 and it will cost us success this season.

Which two? Kai and Timo?

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Which two? Kai and Timo?

Giroud (bless him) and Timo.

I don't class Kai as a striker and have made my thoughts perfectly clear on his player thread.

Edited by KonaKai Blue
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36 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Giroud (bless him) and Timo.

I don't class Kai as a striker and have made my thoughts perfectly clear on his player thread.

Ah fair enough. Clearly TT disagrees as he only plays him there. Maybe he enjoys some variety, fed up of timo missing sitters and fancies Kai doing it instead.

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9 hours ago, Nibs said:

Can't see him being here next season and can see him ending up somewhere like West Ham or Palace.

He'll score bagfulls at a team like Villa, West Ham or Leicester. 

 

At what point does the definition of insanity come up, seriously? After 45 minutes (and 90 a few days ago) of impotence, surely you change things up...... But I'm no world class manager, what do I know? 

 

The idea of Kepa deserving to play but Tammy not even in the squad makes me physically ill. 

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5 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Tammy is as useless as our other two strikers. We just miss him because we've forgotten how bad he is compared to the bad we are already using. We are cursed with strikers plain and simple. It cost us the league in 2014 and it will cost us success this season.

This is utter drivel which constantly gets trotted out about Tammy. Look at his minutes per goal last year, I posted them in this thread towards the end of the season when people were making this completely false statement then. It was plus/minus 5 mins of the leagues top scorers like Kane, Salah etc. 
 

I’ll accept people saying his all round game isn’t great but disputing Abraham as a goalscorer is ridiculous - and that’s what we need. How many chances do we fluff inside the penalty box? How many “tap ins” has Timo missed that Abraham got hassle for because he could only score inside the 6 yard box. 
 

He’s easily the best striker at the club this season in terms of goalscoring ability. If we can get Haaland in the summer, great it’s definitely an upgrade but as for this season, here and now. Tuchel has made a c**t of handling him and @axman2526has stated, shown complete hypocrisy when it comes to him and other players.

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image.thumb.png.049ac9f4fdbd7ca9ca61e3075ea91694.png

I'll just post this here.

One can full well argue that Tammy should play more but let's not pretend he's some great finisher.

Many a time last year he had us pulling our hair out with absymal finishing and above is the stat too prove it.

 

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Tammy is a midtable level striker at best at this point of his career. He may improve in time, but he's not the Messiah some here claim he is. 

I remember when we were leaking goals and Rudiger was out injured people were hailing him as if he was something between Baresi and Beckenbauer and were desperate for his return. Then he came back and played like sh*te. It's always the same thing, when things aren't working, people look for the easiest explanation. 

Here's what I'd like to ask Tammy fans. Do you really believe we would get into CL and FA Cup finals with Tammy being our first choice striker? 

Werner has been nothing short of shocking in front of goal for months now, there's no denying that. Our other attackers to lesser degree can be accused of the same. The problem with Tammy is, that unlike Werner, he wouldn't even be in a position to convert/or miss those chances, because his movement and anticipation is nowhere near of what's required at this level.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

This is utter drivel which constantly gets trotted out about Tammy. Look at his minutes per goal last year, I posted them in this thread towards the end of the season when people were making this completely false statement then. It was plus/minus 5 mins of the leagues top scorers like Kane, Salah etc. 

It's not a particularly good stat to use.

Michy Batshuayi once had a number of 1.77 goals for us for every 90 minute he played.

Tammy's number last season was 0.61. Batshuayi's number when he was at loan at Crystal Palace was 0.60 to use him as an example again.

My point being that a lot of awful strikers can look half decent using that particular stat.

Can also add that Giroud's number for last season was 0.73, so outperforming Abraham.

Edited by Sindre
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20 minutes ago, Sindre said:

It's not a particularly good stat to use.

Michy Batshuayi once had a number of 1.77 goals for us for every 90 minute he played.

God i remember arguing till I was blue in the face about Michy, too many saying he deserved a chance because he "guarantees goals".

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