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JMaher94

Antonio Conte - Now Officially Manager


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If Luiz and Willian were two players who don't like Conte and won't work for him, sell them. Again this is just based on some stupid rumours so I have no idea whether it has anything to it but if it was down to these two we can replace them. 

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7 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

Blimey. The pinnacle of entitlement.

It seems to me that Chelsea is a vehicle of reflected glory here. I'm sure followers of Grimsby Town want to be on the level of Real, Barca and Bayern too. I'd like to win the Euromillions ( your setting your self up for a lifetime of disappointment if you align YOUR ambitions to that of a football club)

Weve come a long way, we've won everything in sight, yet it seems like anything less than guaranteed future world domination is a kick in the teeth for some.

I'm not going to apologise for not having a small club mentality like a lot of you lot on here. By the time I was growing up, we were already winning things. I've never known a Chelsea era where we've gone years without winning or fought relegation (or gotten relegated). Maybe that's what hampers the mentality of you lot. And I'm glad I don't have all of that in mind. For all intents and purposes, it's PTSD. HOW can you try to criticise ambition and call it entitlement? Entitled to what? There's no football club on the planet who can survive without its fans, they essentially run on the goodwill (and pockets) of fans, so again....entitled to what? This is faux positivity mixed with naivite, PTSD and lack of ambition. And I'm glad I'm not part of that bunch.

It's like criticising a bloke who works a 9-5 for having the ambition to start his own business which could one day generate millions of pounds and telling him he should be instead grateful he's got a job at all and isn't homeless on the street. Absolutely puzzling. You can keep that mentality. It's not for me.

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9 hours ago, Kentonio said:

Yeah same here. I've been 'Conte out!' for months, but it doesn't have a single thing to do with silverware. If he'd been the same energetic, passionate, motivational manager as we saw in his first season, but we'd missed top 4 and won nothing, I'd still have been right behind keeping him as manager. I cannot however support a manager who sulks, constantly attacks the board in the press, and demotivates the team causing the kind of spats we've been seeing. It feels like the club has become a toxic environment for no good reason other than his ego, and that's unforgivable.

This is my point exactly. i have been scathing about Conte recently but it has little to do with the football. It has felt like he has disrispected the players and the club with some of his public displays and attitudes. I would even go as far to say that recently the tactics and the approach to games which have deteriorated has felt like these were statements to the board in order to prove a point. A committed Conte playing the high tempo pressing game of his first season. with perhaps an improved faith in introducing more of our youngsters would be perfect. I would ceratinly have no complaints. But not this guy. Not the person that Conte seems to have turned into this season.

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The problem will still be here if Conte goes. We do not have the players to play quick attacking football,  as apart from Hazard and Willian up front and Kante in Midfield we don’t have pace to play quick pass and move.

We go down the line stop turn and come back inside by then the opposition are back behind the ball. 

A new manager will want HIS stamp on the  team and could lead to big changes. This could have happened last summer and winter and would  still have our existing manager here.

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3 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

I'm not going to apologise for not having a small club mentality like a lot of you lot on here. By the time I was growing up, we were already winning things. I've never known a Chelsea era where we've gone years without winning or fought relegation (or gotten relegated). Maybe that's what hampers the mentality of you lot. And I'm glad I don't have all of that in mind. For all intents and purposes, it's PTSD. HOW can you try to criticise ambition and call it entitlement? Entitled to what? There's no football club on the planet who can survive without its fans, they essentially run on the goodwill (and pockets) of fans, so again....entitled to what? This is faux positivity mixed with naivite, PTSD and lack of ambition. And I'm glad I'm not part of that bunch.

It's like criticising a bloke who works a 9-5 for having the ambition to start his own business which could one day generate millions of pounds and telling him he should be instead grateful he's got a job at all and isn't homeless on the street. Absolutely puzzling. You can keep that mentality. It's not for me.

And just how do you manifest this ultra competitive streak of yours into the mindset of the rulers of the football club you proclaim to support?

Blokes like you make me ashamed to be a Chelsea fan

Edit- to qualify the above statement, I read your previous comments to colleagues who support West Ham, Spurs and QPR- the consensus was if winnng things attracts " fans" like that your welcome to it.

 

Edited by Ewell CFC

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I can't understand this desire for people wanting to keep Conte around

I'm not doubting he's a great manager and he's been very successful in his two years here but he quite clearly doesn't want to be here, he's fallen out with the board, he's fallen out with multiple players, he's created a toxic environment by the constant moaning and claiming our squad isn't good enough. He also refused to commit long term and basically got a pay rise without extending his contract. 

We've seen no real development or integration of our youth players in his two years, he barely utilised Chalobah and RLC in his first season with us, Chalobah has now been sold and RLC went out on loan, sure Ampadu got a few games but he wasn't exactly fully integrated. I know Christensen was integrated into our squad but at the same time Conte was wanting us to spend over 50 million on VVD to play the role Christensen played most of the season

His tactics at times have been awful this season, that game against City was disgusting, we went into that game as the current Champions and our mentality was that we had already lost and our aim was to keep the score as low as possible. Sorry, that's unforgivable for me, absolute sh*t tactics and no belief in ourselves, we've seen the same tactics all season which quite clearly hasn't been working yet there's been no change

People say we should just back him and sell the players he doesn't want and has fallen out with but why on earth would we do that for a manager who won't even commit long term to us? Also, with some of Hazards comments recently and the fact he still hasn't signed a new contract something tells me he would look to leave if we kept Conte around. For me, keeping Hazard is so much more important than keeping Conte

I'll always be thankful for what he has achieved with us and there's no doubt he's a world class manager but it's time for him to leave, and the winning the FA Cup means we can part ways on a high. I very much doubt things would get better if he stays 

 

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3 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

I'm not going to apologise for not having a small club mentality like a lot of you lot on here. By the time I was growing up, we were already winning things. I've never known a Chelsea era where we've gone years without winning or fought relegation (or gotten relegated). Maybe that's what hampers the mentality of you lot. And I'm glad I don't have all of that in mind. For all intents and purposes, it's PTSD. HOW can you try to criticise ambition and call it entitlement? Entitled to what? There's no football club on the planet who can survive without its fans, they essentially run on the goodwill (and pockets) of fans, so again....entitled to what? This is faux positivity mixed with naivite, PTSD and lack of ambition. And I'm glad I'm not part of that bunch.

It's like criticising a bloke who works a 9-5 for having the ambition to start his own business which could one day generate millions of pounds and telling him he should be instead grateful he's got a job at all and isn't homeless on the street. Absolutely puzzling. You can keep that mentality. It's not for me.

The more I read this the ludicrous you sound " it's like criticising a bloke who does  a 9-5 for having the ambition to start his own busines!"

My hole point was in life you are able to paddle you own canoe- by following a football team you are completely out of control and inevitably suffer the slings and arrows of fortune.

By the way, just why did you become a Chelsea fan in the first place? Are you one of the mythical figures who lives hundreds of miles from Stamford Bridge but had a stepdad that once lived in Fulham?

Glory hunting twit......

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13 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

And just how do you manifest this ultra competitive streak of yours into the mindset of the rulers of the football club you proclaim to support?

Blokes like you make me ashamed to be a Chelsea fan

Edit- to qualify the above statement, I read your previous comments to colleagues who support West Ham, Spurs and QPR- the consensus was if winnng things attracts " fans" like that your welcome to it.

 

How you interprete my comment is none of my business. It's laughable though that you read that as me taking winning as THE thing that attracts me to Chelsea. If that's the case, why do I support Chelsea? I've always had Man United and Arsenal supporting friends and family. They were winning A LOT more than Chelsea when I started realising what football is. I don't have to explain to you how it's more than trophies. I also don't need your approval to hold the club accountable for its actions either. 

You're probably the type of fan who would have slated Madrid for firing Carlo and called the fans spoilt when in actuality, those actions are leading them to a third straight CL and and 4th in 5 seasons. You would have wanted them to be "content" and "grateful". That's the difference between me and you. And I couldn't care less what your West Ham, Spurs and QPR supporting friends think. None of those clubs are even on our level at the moment - a level which I still want us to surpass. Not to mention I don't know them and give a f**k about their opinion.

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42 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

And just how do you manifest this ultra competitive streak of yours into the mindset of the rulers of the football club you proclaim to support?

Blokes like you make me ashamed to be a Chelsea fan

Edit- to qualify the above statement, I read your previous comments to colleagues who support West Ham, Spurs and QPR- the consensus was if winnng things attracts " fans" like that your welcome to it.

 

Think your being a bit harsh.

If being in or around the top is @Barrettinator condition for supporting us then i'd understand but i don't think it is. For me personally, i'd still be going to Stamford Bridge if we were bottom of League 2 but i also don't think im being unreasonable for wanting us to be the best we can be, especially if we have the resources and infrastructure to do so, which we do.

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1 minute ago, Argo said:

Think your being a bit harsh.

If being in or around the top is @Barrettinator condition for supporting us then i'd understand but i don't think it is. For me personally, i'd still be going to Stamford Bridge if we were bottom of League 2 but i also don't think im being unreasonable for wanting us to be the best we can be, especially if we have the resources and infrastructure to do so, which we do.

THANK YOU! Someone who gets it and doesn't have his head stuck in sand. If we got relegated to League 2 tomorrow, not even a gun to my head would stop me from supporting Chelsea but that doesn't mean I'd be comfortable with League 2 and be "grateful" that at least we're not a mere Sunday League side. I'd want us to climb up the leagues and back to the PL in a few years if possible. What I (and a lot of other fans) want is for Chelsea to be among the top tier elite clubs in football, especially because we have all the resources to do so and we just haven't because of bad planning and management. 

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47 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

If we got relegated to League 2 tomorrow, not even a gun to my head would stop me from supporting Chelsea but that doesn't mean I'd be comfortable with League 2 and be "grateful" that at least we're not a mere Sunday League side.

Define support because there would be no streams for you to watch if we were in League 2. Thing is a lot of Chelsea fans started supporting us when we were crap you've never experienced bad times so if Chelsea did get relegated I couldn't see you hanging about if your not satisfied with two trophies in two years.

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Speaking as one of those who'd prefer Conte over the currently linked alternatives, I've addressed some of your points below Sparkz. Sorry for the long post everyone. 

1 hour ago, Sparkz said:

I can't understand this desire for people wanting to keep Conte around

I'm not doubting he's a great manager and he's been very successful in his two years here but he quite clearly doesn't want to be here, he's fallen out with the board, he's fallen out with multiple players, he's created a toxic environment by the constant moaning and claiming our squad isn't good enough. He also refused to commit long term and basically got a pay rise without extending his contract. 

Clearly there were issues behind the scenes last summer. I think much of his unhappiness this season relates to a lack of action on signings who he thought could improve the squad. Both in terms of the individual sales and signings but also timing.  

If you recall we signed an injured Bakayoko and Morata before deadline day last year, meaning we were so short of numbers that Boga started against Burnley and Luiz and an injured Bakayoko started in midfield against Spurs. Conte doesn't seem to have been consulted on the sale of Matic or his advice was ignored. This left Bakayoko hopelessly exposed and meant Cesc was a regular starter, which as we've seen was a disaster from a defensive stability perspective. My point being I think the sulking as you put it could have been alleviated by buying decent targets that improved the squad, even if they weren't Conte's targets. I'm not a fan of the behaviour either but I think we can't consider the behaviour without the context.

Certainly there seem to also be issues with some members of the squad notably Willian and Luiz. But given the falling out with Mourinho,  one should perhaps ask whether there is blame to be shared here.

We've seen no real development or integration of our youth players in his two years, he barely utilised Chalobah and RLC in his first season with us, Chalobah has now been sold and RLC went out on loan, sure Ampadu got a few games but he wasn't exactly fully integrated. I know Christensen was integrated into our squad but at the same time Conte was wanting us to spend over 50 million on VVD to play the role Christensen played most of the season.

This is the biggest furphy in your piece. Christensen is the first player from the academy to play this many games in 15 years. If anything Conte perhaps showed too much faith in him. Ampadu also played the majority of our cup games until his injury. RLC had a great loan and will certainly feature here next season. Our youth system made more first team progress than ever before under Conte.

His tactics at times have been awful this season, that game against City was disgusting, we went into that game as the current Champions and our mentality was that we had already lost and our aim was to keep the score as low as possible. Sorry, that's unforgivable for me, absolute sh*t tactics and no belief in ourselves, we've seen the same tactics all season which quite clearly hasn't been working yet there's been no change

That game keeps being brought up. I've written about this elsewhere but Kante is essentially the only thing that holds our defence together. He was injured as was Bakayoko. Meaning our two man midfield featured  Fabregas and Drinkwater. Hardly ideal. Now if we had lost 5-0 by playing open football, as we would have, the critics would still be in here berating him.

Here's Conte in his own words after the FA Cup:

"Maybe we missed the Champions League this season because we tried to play very open, and in this moment you can't do this. To concede three goals in seven games this season means you don't have stability. A great team doesn't concede four goals against Watford.

"Today it was the only way to lift a trophy. Now we are in this moment. If we want to change we can change our idea, but we must change many players."

If we want to play football a certain way we have to have the squad to do that, you cant develop something that isn't there. Fabregas can't just be made fast. Sarri or Enrique or whoever will discover this next season without large scale investment. 

People say we should just back him and sell the players he doesn't want and has fallen out with but why on earth would we do that for a manager who won't even commit long term to us? Also, with some of Hazards comments recently and the fact he still hasn't signed a new contract something tells me he would look to leave if we kept Conte around. For me, keeping Hazard is so much more important than keeping Conte.

Hazard I think wants to win, big trophies. He essentially issued the same demands as Conte two weeks ago when he daid he wanted to see who we signed before commiting. 

The inability to sign a new contract is again linked to those issues last summer.  From I've read I think he overstepped the mark with some of his requests, but fundamentally if we had signed some upgrades to the squad and shown ambition to keep pushing on, rather than doing what we always do after winning the title and sitting on our laurels, I think he would have extended.

I'll always be thankful for what he has achieved with us and there's no doubt he's a world class manager but it's time for him to leave, and the winning the FA Cup means we can part ways on a high. I very much doubt things would get better if he stays 

To summarise he certainly isn't free of blame for what happened this season. I haven't been impressed by his attitude either. But many of these issues could have been mitigated by decent squad investment ie. not selling Matic or buying cheaper injured players who took longer to get fit and fit into our plans. 

But at the core of my case for Conte is that neither Sarri nor Enrique are at the same level as Conte. Despite all those issues, we still won a trophy, Sarri has never won one ever, despite his pretty football. Enrique has been a disaster at most clubs that didn't have Messi, Neymar and Suarez as a front three, and still then he fell out with key players such as Jordi Alba, which given our record of palpable discord might well happen here too. 

Finally, both of those managers will require a fundamental reshaping of our squad to suit their style. My view is why not use that investment to back a guy who has won two trophies in two years. As I mentioned earlier, a new central midfielder, a new right wing back and replacements for Luiz and Willian and we're ready to compete at the top again.

 

Edited by Spiller86

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6 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

Define support because there would be no streams for you to watch if we were in League 2. Thing is a lot of Chelsea fans started supporting us when we were crap you've never experienced bad times so if Chelsea did get relegated I couldn't see you hanging about if your not satisfied with two trophies in two years.

With all due respect, you know absolutely nothing about me so maybe you should save the conclusions you've made in your head for another person because they certainly don't apply to me. I have a Sky subscription and I try to go to as many games as is financially possible when I get the chance. Don't talk to me about streams. 

And for what it's worth, that is very condescending to those Chelsea fans who have no option but to stream our games. We should want even more of those fans. They're what define our international appeal which in turn fetches more endorsement deals with brands and brings more money in for the club that allows us to be further successful. Never understood this attitude. Almost as if you're unhappy the club has grown beyond England. 

Last time we went on a really long trophyless spell was pre mid 90's so if you have to go back to that to find who you would qualify as a "real" fan then that's your problem.

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1 minute ago, Barrettinator said:

With all due respect, you know absolutely nothing about me so maybe you should save the conclusions you've made in your head for another person because they certainly don't apply to me. I have a Sky subscription and I try to go to as many games as is financially possible when I get the chance. Don't talk to me about streams. 

And for what it's worth, that is very condescending to those Chelsea fans who have no option but to stream our games. We should want even more of those fans. They're what define our international appeal which in turn fetches more endorsement deals with brands and brings more money in for the club that allows us to be further successful. Never understood this attitude. Almost as if you're unhappy the club has grown beyond England. 

Last time we went on a really long trophyless spell was pre mid 90's so if you have to go back to that to find who you would qualify as a "real" fan then that's your problem.

I'm not talking about other Chelsea fans just you. If your not happy about Chelsea not being an elite club then you simply couldn't handle Chelsea as a struggling club. It's not a question of how long you've supported Chelsea but to keep on supporting them when things go badly. 

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2 hours ago, Ewell CFC said:

The more I read this the ludicrous you sound " it's like criticising a bloke who does  a 9-5 for having the ambition to start his own busines!"

My hole point was in life you are able to paddle you own canoe- by following a football team you are completely out of control and inevitably suffer the slings and arrows of fortune.

By the way, just why did you become a Chelsea fan in the first place? Are you one of the mythical figures who lives hundreds of miles from Stamford Bridge but had a stepdad that once lived in Fulham?

Glory hunting twit......

Yes, yes. I'm a glory hunting twit because I want Chelsea to become as successful as clubs like Barca. You're a complete idiot and you clearly have no one around you to point that out to you. The analogy I laid out for you clearly went over your head as well so it's evident that you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. There's no point continuing this discussion with you any further. Tried to be as respectful as possible but you're clearly very dim upstairs. Enjoy yourself.

Edited by Barrettinator

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29 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

I'm not talking about other Chelsea fans just you. If your not happy about Chelsea not being an elite club then you simply couldn't handle Chelsea as a struggling club. It's not a question of how long you've supported Chelsea but to keep on supporting them when things go badly. 

I wouldn't be where I am today if I was always comfortable and not always striving for better. And by the way, what is it exactly that you've read from my post(s) that has supposedly shown you that I wouldn't support Chelsea when times are bad? Answer this question; if we got relegated tomorrow, would you fold your hands and say "at least we didn't go into administration" and be content with the direction of the club even if it appeared we were dropping further into League 1? Wouldn't you demand better? 

Actually, we don't even have to deal with hypotheticals, answer this one; when Jose had us 16th in the league 2 seasons ago, were you content? If you weren't then wouldn't that indicate that (by your logic) you're being a spoilt fan since there are a lot of other clubs in the lower leagues who would give anything to be as "high" as fighting relegation in the PL? If you disagree with that premise (which is based on your logic) then what exactly is the issue you have with me wanting us to get to the next level?

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7 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

I wouldn't be where I am today if I was always comfortable and not always striving for better. And by the way, what is it exactly that you've read from my post(s) that has supposedly shown you that I wouldn't support Chelsea when times are bad? Answer this question; if we got relegated tomorrow, would you fold your hands and say "at least we didn't go into administration" and be content with the direction of the club even if it appeared we were dropping further into League 1? Wouldn't you demand better? 

Actually, we don't even have to deal with hypotheticals, answer this one; when Jose had us 16th in the league 2 seasons ago, were you content? If you weren't then wouldn't that indicate that (by your logic) you're being a spoilt fan since there are a lot of other clubs in the lower leagues who would give anything to be as "high" as fighting relegation in the PL? If you disagree with that premise (which is based on your logic) then what exactly is the issue you have with me wanting us to get to the next level?

You really are beyond parody, Mr "' I wouldn't be where I am today!"

If you didn't exist someone would have to invent you as the living embodiment of a " spoilt brat of a football fan", whose world falls to pieces when a few dark clouds appear on the horizon.

i bet you were thumping the table to hammer home the point when you announced to the world your discontentment with winning the odd cup when what you demand is parity with Real, Barca and Bayern.

You appear to be without semblance of self awareness or sense of irony?

Like I said, a glory hunting twit of the first order.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Actually, we don't even have to deal with hypotheticals, answer this one; when Jose had us 16th in the league 2 seasons ago, were you content? 

I can't answer for anyone else, but I actually found the season strangely intriguing and very interesting to watch unfold. I also managed to go to Stamford Bridge more than I have any other season to date as tickets were seemingly more available. Plus I could see that the team we had wouldn't be in that position long term as we clearly still had quality players. I'm not sure content is the right word but I certainly wasn't raging at the position the club was in.

 

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Some of you take the success and failure of the club far too seriously. Tell me, do you see it as a personal failure if Chelsea fails to win a trophy? Likewise, do you see it as a personal triumph if Chelsea wins? 

I love it when we win, but when we lose I just get on with my life. Letting something affect your mood which you have absolutely no control over is weird to me.

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10 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Yes, yes. I'm a glory hunting twit because I want Chelsea to become as successful as clubs like Barca. You're a complete idiot and you clearly have no one around you to point that out to you. The analogy I laid out for you clearly went over your head as well so it's evident that you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. There's no point continuing this discussion with you any further. Tried to be as respectful as possible but you're clearly very dim upstairs. Enjoy yourself.

I don't want to get in the middle of this, and I've quoted this post as a representative one of yours, rather than it's specific content (although it is a masterclass in self-contradiction "You're a complete idiot", "you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.", "you're clearly very dim upstairs.", "Tried to be as respectful as possible"- think about that).

My opinion, expressed many times in this forum in the past, is that you nor I have ANY right to  expectations of the team or the manager over and above that they do their very best in the blue shirt.  We have no right to EXPECT anything from the club.  Season ticket holders and match-goers have more rights than those of us who watch on the telly or on streams,but basically, we are owed the very best performance on the pitch, by every player, every match, and nothing else. Anyone who says "the club owe me this" or "I need trophies and a place at the top  table"  needs to have a good look at themselves.  Snide-ish references to  "the working man" or "willing to accept mediocrity" are disingenuous and inaccurate.

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1 hour ago, Old Shaggy said:

Some of you take the success and failure of the club far too seriously. Tell me, do you see it as a personal failure if Chelsea fails to win a trophy? Likewise, do you see it as a personal triumph if Chelsea wins? 

I love it when we win, but when we lose I just get on with my life. Letting something affect your mood which you have absolutely no control over is weird to me.

That's where I am but as I've discussed with some others recently, that's probably an age thing.

Have to admit when I was younger, pre marriage, kids, houses, mortgages - Chelsea was uppermost in my life, so defeats (and worst of all relegation) it ruined days, weeks....EVERYTHING!

But now, as much as I still love Chelsea and want us to do well and it's brilliant when we are winning leagues etc, well if we don't............it's not the end of the world and there's always another day. Of course, younger supporters will also have more mates who support other clubs and that comes with all the football banter and you give it large when you win but when you lose plenty of stick comes back your way. Now I'm old with very few friends, you don't get that "sh*t don't want to go into work tomorrow after losing to Watford FFS"

That said, defeats against S*urs are still very hard to take!

 

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I haven't seen anyone say they are deserved trophies or good football or mega-club status, just that that's what they would like. I see nothing wrong with wanting the best for your club, especially given the finances and resources we have at our disposal.

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The bloke I quoted has been saying little else in this discussion.  I agree, nothing at all wrong with wanting the best for the club.  In my view the finances and resources are irrelevant, but yes, we all want the best.

Demanding trophies and that we must be at the Real/Barca/Bayern level or we are just sh*t is spoilt and entitled, and is way way more than wanting the best, it's being a sulky, whiney pouting princess.  That was my point.

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