Final words on Mourinho, KDB, Lukaku and anything else

[Bobbywoodhogan]

With the new manager coming in to take over from next season I think it's a good idea to say some final words on certain subjects then move on.

I know I don't run this place nor do I moderate but I think the same old arguments about Mourinho, the Eva affair, losing players like Lukaku & KDB (who have gone on to do good things) are really dragging this place down in a time when we are about to embark on a fresh start.

So I say we all say a final word on anything in the past and move on...

I'll start

Mourinho

It can be debated that the man should never have returned and it can be debated that he was justified in returning after delivering more success. But I will say this on his return I liked him a lot less. I found myself disagreeing with him mostly and wishing he'd keep his mouth shut. I also did not feel the devastation I felt back in 2007 when he left last time. I am greatful he came back and won a double but I think we need to move on from him.

Players who have left[:B]

Personally I'm tired of this place melting down everyone Lukaku or KDB score or get an assist. We have to move on, players come and go. Sometimes it's the right decision, sometimes it's wrong. But one things for sure when they're gone they're gone. We can think what if they'd stayed? But why bother? I know this season has been a disaster but let's not look on with jealousy at what may have been. Let's look to the future... After all we are not Liverpool.

That's it for me, without European Football and a new manager the future is uncertain but for me it's also very exciting. I would rather talk about what's likely to happen and look forward to the transfer window opening. See who we bring in and who we let go.

[Beerqueen]

Well said Bobby!  I find less and less of interest to read on here recently, going over the same old, same old, Lukaku, KDB blah, blah, blah. ad nauseum.  

 

And before anyone says it, yes I do ignore them and don't even bother opening them most of the time.  I wish I could put threads on ignore rather than just people.

[Kev56]

Been saying this for ages.

[Stim]

Good plan but unfortunately its not gonna work. Next story gonna come along and we all gonna repeat ourselves. We are living in the mikel thread til we get back on the up and up.

[Ukraine Bolt]

Good thread.

 

Mourinho

 

Hero first time round, arsehole second time round. More bothered about getting a quick title to his name rather than build a team to dominate for years to come. The fact he looks likely to end up at United shows he never loved Chelsea like he claimed. Now upwards and onward with Conte, someone i hope will actually play expressive football for an entire season. RA also needs to stick with Conte, give him time to build a dynasty as Mourinho was never the manager to do that with.

 

Sold players

 

In regards to KdB/Lukaku i'm guttered they're gone as i feel our team would be the best in England with them in it. On the other hand i hope to god we don't spend large money on resigning Lukaku. Now they've gone they've gone and i hope we look elsewhere rather than spending £millions to get them back. Look into the youth academy and don't make the same mistakes with our plethora of talent.

[ShedEnder91]

I agree with the sentiments of this thread but the problem is that half the time I find people criticising Mourinho, there's also got to be a finger of blame pointed at the people who run this club and are still here. Those problems could very well still exist under Conte

 

Take for instance, RIP Mourinho's post above. He says the team could've been the 'best in England with them in it' referring to De Bruyne and Lukaku. 

 

Now what get's overlooked is that the team was the best in England. We were Champions weren't we? Numero Uno? 

 

Wasn't that the foundation to build on? If you're running a race isn't being out in-front a good foundation to build a win on? Jose lost it this season. From the pre-season on it's fair to say he went too easy on the players, maybe to avoid the burnout we had at the end of last season. 

 

But that's half the story. We had a weak squad last season and weakened it this season. We spent very little and we blew the opportunity to dominate. The culture at this club set by those at the top needs to change for Conte to succeed but we've been saying that for years. 

 

 

It's why I really do commend Bobby on his aims and I'd love for us to move on from KDB and Lukaku and Mourinho-talk. I just don't know if that's likely. This is a historically bad season in a number of ways and people are always going to have opinions why. Sorry mate, I absolutely get your thinking and it would be lovely if we all just focussed on the future, but part of planning for that is learning from past mistakes.

 

Sorry for my completely wrong-headed post in your well-meaning thread.

[timetowaste]

Lukaku's sale stings less than De Bruyne's because of the fact we got rid of him and Mata in favour of keeping Oscar. At least with Lukaku we replaced him with a very good striker, but we got rid of one of the highest rated youngsters in Europe AND our 2x player of the season in favour of a very very average player who hasn't progressed at all, if anything he has got worse.

Mourinho was massively let down by the players and it's so sad that it ended the way it did, he will always be a club legend though, he turned us from just a team with money into a European powerhouse and I'll never forget that.

[Ukraine Bolt]

I agree with the sentiments of this thread but the problem is that half the time I find people criticising Mourinho, there's also got to be a finger of blame pointed at the people who run this club and are still here. Those problems could very well still exist under Conte

 

Take for instance, RIP Mourinho's post above. He says the team could've been the 'best in England with them in it' referring to De Bruyne and Lukaku. 

 

Now what get's overlooked is that the team was the best in England. We were Champions weren't we? Numero Uno? 

 

Wasn't that the foundation to build on? If you're running a race isn't being out in-front a good foundation to build a win on? Jose lost it this season. From the pre-season on it's fair to say he went too easy on the players, maybe to avoid the burnout we had at the end of last season. 

 

But that's half the story. We had a weak squad last season and weakened it this season. We spent very little and we blew the opportunity to dominate. The culture at this club set by those at the top needs to change for Conte to succeed but we've been saying that for years. 

 

 

It's why I really do commend Bobby on his aims and I'd love for us to move on from KDB and Lukaku and Mourinho-talk. I just don't know if that's likely. This is a historically bad season in a number of ways and people are always going to have opinions why. Sorry mate, I absolutely get your thinking and it would be lovely if we all just focussed on the future, but part of planning for that is learning from past mistakes.

 

Sorry for my completely wrong-headed post in your well-meaning thread.

 

It will probably sound petty but i would argue that Chelsea underachieved last season. 

 

Yes we won the league and the league cup, however i thought we could have won more. 

 

We should have done far more in the FA cup alone. I also strongly believe we should have made the semi's of the champions league at least. We never would have won it with the squad Barca had, but we should have been challenging.

 

The football we were playing at the start of last season was some of the best Chelsea have played in the premier league. One loss to Spurs and Mou sh*t himself and instead of carrying on forced players like Hazard to track back first and attack second. Would Neymar be told to track back for Barca all the time? I doubt it. The dodgy dealings in January didn't help either.  

[ShedEnder91]

It will probably sound petty but i would argue that Chelsea underachieved last season. 

 

Yes we won the league and the league cup, however i thought we could have won more. 

 

We should have done far more in the FA cup alone. I also strongly believe we should have made the semi's of the champions league at least. We never would have won it with the squad Barca had, but we should have been challenging.

 

The football we were playing at the start of last season was some of the best Chelsea have played in the premier league. One loss to Spurs and Mou sh*t himself and instead of carrying on forced players like Hazard to track back first and attack second. Would Neymar be told to track back for Barca all the time? I doubt it. The dodgy dealings in January didn't help either.  

 

I don't agree but those are your expectations.

 

For me, Jose came in and in his first season laid the groundwork. There were problems and we addressed them.

 

Second season we win the league and have the foundations of a team who could go further. There were problems and if we address them, we don't fix them.

 

When you look at this season, I think you're talking about the biggest missed opportunity in this club's history to build something truly special and I don't think that can all be laid solely at Jose's feet. That's why it's going to be rehashed because there's every chance that this club doesn't get a chance like that again in your lifetime. 

 

People can focus on two transfers that we made before winning the league if they want. I'll give you TEN that came when we were Champions of England that no-one talks about.

 

Cech

Djilobodji

Hector

Pedro

Rahman

Luis

Miazga

Pato

Falcao

Ramires

 

The club took a Premier League winning squad that had areas that needed addressing and systematically weakened it in goal, defence, midfield and attack in the space of 6 six months. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by ShedEnder91

[Chelsbear]

Would love it if this would happen but it's a forum and as such debate will linger on for years about the above subjects.

The players we sold were then replaced to mould a double winning team who were head and shoulders above anything in this league. Instead of building on that the owners, manager and players made mistakes...got lazy and regressed. We all said it at the time that it would be a disaster to not strengthen because we saw it happen to City twice in recent seasons but we were ridiculously naive and got what we deserved tbh.

On Jose there was no chance he could ever top what he done before so the only way was down. He trusted his squad and treated it like his previous Chelsea and they hung him out to dry instead. Of course he also made massive mistakes like Eva and persisted with players who mocked him ( Costa chucking bibs, Hazard not giving two sh*ts etc.

It's highly irritable to see posters cry whenever former players do well, it's just posts they made the last time those players scored or done something of note. It's quite frankly boring but everyone has the right to post their opinions so it's fair game I suppose.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bobbywoodhogan]

I guess I was asking to much from the internet lol

Thanks for posting folks, I just would love to just pu all the same constant sh*t to bed. I barely post here anymore and it's cause of the same old tired arguments.

[Krc-fan]

   

 

 

 

Good try, Bob!

 

 

But you are right.

Enough is enough.

 

Let's hope for some good and positiv news.

[Bobbywoodhogan]

We're I mid here I'd start a culling lol

But then I'd probably get my powers taken if me for abusing them.

[Blueblur]

I always thought of Lukaku as a bit of a punk. If we buy him back for £60m this summer or whatever he is being touted at I will take a dump in Emenalo's mouth.

 

KDB was clearly an exceptional talent, I remember being at the Bridge for the game against Hell Hull for Mou's first game back in charge; KDB was fantastic. A massive mistake selling him.

 

Mourinho, well...he came back and pretty much instantly gave us two trophies. His third season was an unmitigated disaster, ever since the Eva incident....his behaviour was appalling. It was a good thing he left in the end. Will miss the guy though. 

[Krc-fan]

 

 

[abigsmurf]

Not going to join in on the Mourinho hate wagon.

 

He steadily built them up into comfortable champions and we looked head and shoulders above anyone else in the league, especially tactically.

 

Sure you can argue that we didn't have enough of a break but I seem to remember Spurs being pretty similar to us in terms of when they flew back and look at them (and I doubt Jose had a say on the friendly tournament anyway). Hazard came back massively overweight, doesn't sound much like he lacked a break, did he want time to put on another stone?

 

We were playing crap before the Eva incident and as the farce continued it was painfully obvious that players were basically downing tools, ignoring the tactics that won them the league. I don't care if big mean nasty Mr Mourinho wasn't being very nice to them, it's become clear since he left just how important his tactics and training was and how much he was able to make the squad punch above its weight. These are grown men on insane salaries I can accept that personal annoyances and greivances could maybe drop you from Champion form to 'top-4 fight' form but we were in true relegation form for a while (and now we've ascended to the heights of middle table mediocracy).

 

I won't say that Mourinho couldn't have done things better, constant dramas were annoying but frankly it's the players I've been ashamed of, some of which I don't think I can ever forgive. I put 30% on Mourinho, 70% on players. 

 

</rant>

[g3.7]

in my way of thinking, not just about football but in general, everything is permanently open to analysis and examination. there are no empirical truths and there are no sacred cows. I don't believe in finality and the idea something can be ultimately decided scares me a little.

 

 

Bobby, I appreciate that wading through reams of posts that you aren't interested in is boring and I don't doubt I've contributed to that. I cannot truthfully apologise for that, but I can say that it isn't my intent.

[Ballack & Blu]

Trouble is we view most of whats happened with great hindsight, KDB moved on , we kept Hazard, De Brunye has potential to be at least as goog as Eden was, Eden will rise again, Mata was a sad case to judge, universally adored and subsequently elbowed to OT, Again we survived, and did a double, lastly grateful for last years Prem, but i didn't personally want Jose back, always thought it would go tits up part 2, and boy did that happen, so now closure and move on.....

[kiwi1691]

I agree with the sentiments of this thread but the problem is that half the time I find people criticising Mourinho, there's also got to be a finger of blame pointed at the people who run this club and are still here. Those problems could very well still exist under Conte

 

 

No, it was not Roman or Emenalo who refused to give KDB or Lukaku a chance, it was Jose. I am sick of you constantly deriding the club to defend Jose. Before Jose arrived some of the transfer dealings at the club were masterful. I believe the club paid about 24 mill for both Lukaku and KDB. When you look at how good they both are that is brilliant.

 

I have seen media reports in the past claiming the club bid as much as 95 million Euros for Pogba, yet you spend the season claiming the club wasn't prepared to spend to support Jose. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by kiwi1691

[Kev56]

And here we go again.

[KonaKai Blue]

Thank god the club didn't waste another 50m on Stones. Absolutely overrated footballer, an English Luiz.

[ShedEnder91]

No, it was not Roman or Emenalo who refused to give KDB or Lukaku a chance, it was Jose. I am sick of you constantly deriding the club to defend Jose. Before Jose arrived some of the transfer dealings at the club were masterful. I believe the club paid about 24 mill for both Lukaku and KDB. When you look at how good they both are that is brilliant.

 

I have seen media reports in the past claiming the club bid as much as 95 million Euros for Pogba, yet you spend the season claiming the club wasn't prepared to spend to support Jose. 

 

I'm sorry that my views are making you sick but they're my honest opinion. The De Bruyne deal was brilliant because he was relatively unknown, the Lukaku deal slightly less so. The club actually paid less than you believe as well which makes them better I would assume.

 

My point has always been consistent though. Jose won the title and had the foundations for something special. There were flaws and I think we all accept that now, so based on that premise what did the club do in the summer? Did they strengthen the squad or did they weaken it? I understand your point that they tried but in sport, as in business, you don't get points for effort. It's a results game.

[Xfaxtor]

^{Maybe if Josè wasnt insisting on signing Falcao and wanting the Club to splurge over 130 million on two players that werent for sale we would have strengthened the Squad. Thank god Josè didnt get his wish and we ended up paying 50+ for Stones. What a disaster that would have been. Im sure Emenalo would have ended up shouldering the blame for that one as well.}

Edited April 21, 2016 by Xfaxtor

[ShedEnder91]

^{Maybe if Josè wasnt insisting on signing Falcao and wanting the Club to splurge over 130 million on two players that werent for sale we would have strengthened the Squad. Thank god Josè didnt get his wish and we ended up paying 50+ for Stones. What a disaster that would have been. Im sure Emenalo would have ended up shouldering the blame for that one as well.}

 

Is Stones the same player under Mourinho as he is under Martinez? 

 

Let's flip that - is Zouma the same defender under Martinez? Does coaching matter to a player's development at all?

 

Stones and Pogba - they were the only two players available? There weren't any others that a Technical Director with a huge network of scouts could identify? 

 

It was John Stones or Papy Djilobodgi and no middle ground? 

 

Why does Jose get to insist on signing Falcao, but not on selling Cech to Arsenal? I'm quite happy to include Jose in the discussion on acquiring players but I also think the blame should be shared. 

 

So what did the club actually do last summer to improve the squad?

[Xfaxtor]

Is Stones the same player under Mourinho as he is under Martinez? 

 

Let's flip that - is Zouma the same defender under Martinez? Does coaching matter to a player's development at all?

 

Stones and Pogba - they were the only two players available? There weren't any others that a Technical Director with a huge network of scouts could identify? 

 

It was John Stones or Papy Djilobodgi and no middle ground? 

 

Why does Jose get to insist on signing Falcao, but not on selling Cech to Arsenal? I'm quite happy to include Jose in the discussion on acquiring players but I also think the blame should be shared. 

 

So what did the club actually do last summer to improve the squad?

 

Martinez isnt the only Coach at Everton. Im sure they have fairly good coaches at a premier League Club. Its not like Stones would have been a completely different player in half a season under Josè. Hes an excellent manager. He is not God.

From what I saw during the transfer season, it looked like Josè had dug in on Stones and didnt really want anyone else, wouldnt be the first time he went against advice due to his stubborness, which is part of why hes an excellent manager. Selling Cech was clearly done over Mourinhos head and from all accounts had nothing to do with Emenalo and everything to do With Roman granting Cech his wish of moving within the boundries of London as a personal favour. Thought that was  a classy move from our owner to be honest and with him We have an excellent record of signing players over the last 4 or 5 years since Emenalo came to Power. From all accounts I think hes done a splendid job even Mourinho praised him last summer when he got Fabregas and Costa signed quickly. Last year he couldnt deliver and from the evidence we have available its logical for me to assume Mourinho wanted certain players that werent available.

Djilibodji was a last minute signing that was easily available for a low sum of money that the club thought it might make profit on and from the looks of him in Germany he looks to be a an excellent signing.

 

I get it though, Emenalo is an easy figure to shoulder most of the blame as his role in the squad is unclear to some, he seemingly rose unfairly to a position of influence and then there was the Whole "the individual" incident.  From what one can gather he is in charge of the squad and what players to bring in, not to bring in. Those players are scouted by a large network so Emenalo is mostly relying on scouting reports that he would present to the board and the manager who then decide what players to purchase and its (again from what I can gather) up to Marina Grankovskaia (spelling?) to negotiate a deal. If a deal cant be negotiated, a New plan is put in Place. As for selling, it is uaully the technical Directors job to field offers for players the manager does not want and would like to get rid of for fresh capital. In the case of KdB, Mata and Lukaku, Josè would have been asked for input and when he said these players are not needed a sale would have gone through. Cech being the exception. Some of these decisions looked good immediately but have come back to bite us in the rear, It is what it is. I dont for a second belive that our board With Emenalo in front told Josè to bugger off and he couldnt get any signings to strengthen.