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Jose Mourinho thread


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What says it all for me about his two stints was the first stint I backed him all the time. I didn't ever really disagree with him but second stint a lot of times he left me shaking my head.

I think the first run I bought into the us versus them mentality. But that grew tiresome and I believe we'd moved on as a club from that image a few years prior to his return. So when he came back and we were once again trying to field that image it never quite felt right. I often found myself saying things like "why did you even say that's Jose?" Or my mates coming to me saying he was a dick and to their shock me saying yeah I know. I said it before and I'll say it again I'll always love and appreciate what he did for this club. Anyone writing off that last title/league cup win needs a f**king reality check though but I can see why people turned on him as a person cause I don't think Jose the person is a happy man anymore.

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I don't even know what his problem is. He's finally at a club which is among the biggest in the world, unlimited budget and unlike Chelsea where you could be sacked for finishing 2nd, a title challenge and finishing top 4 will be enough at Manchester United.  This was supposed to be his dream job, with great players and all he had to do was get his head down and make the club succesful again. Instead he's just miserable and acting like a twat again. They need to get rid because it's not gonna get any better.

 

I remember when he was sacked last year, I thought he deliberately engineered the move by acting up so he could get sacked and get the Utd job but now looks like I was way off. He's a twat regardless of where he goes. 

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2 hours ago, Ivanov87 said:

I don't even know what his problem is. He's finally at a club which is among the biggest in the world, unlimited budget and unlike Chelsea where you could be sacked for finishing 2nd, a title challenge and finishing top 4 will be enough at Manchester United.  This was supposed to be his dream job, with great players and all he had to do was get his head down and make the club succesful again. Instead he's just miserable and acting like a twat again. They need to get rid because it's not gonna get any better.

 

I remember when he was sacked last year, I thought he deliberately engineered the move by acting up so he could get sacked and get the Utd job but now looks like I was way off. He's a twat regardless of where he goes. 

Well he lost his Dad in 2015 and as someone who has its not easy to get through so it's clearly effected him.

I honestly doubt he deliberately got himself sacked. I think to believe otherwise is just one of this silly theories that people throw out.

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6 minutes ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

Well he lost his Dad in 2015 and as someone who has its not easy to get through so it's clearly effected him.

I honestly doubt he deliberately got himself sacked. I think to believe otherwise is just one of this silly theories that people throw out.

I'm pretty sure his father is still alive. And if his fathers illness is affecting his management, then perhaps he should step down and  be with him and let the club find someone else who can manage. It's not fair on Utd that they have to suffer whilst he keeps dealing with his personal issues. 

Edited by Ivanov87
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3 hours ago, Ivanov87 said:

I don't even know what his problem is. He's finally at a club which is among the biggest in the world, unlimited budget and unlike Chelsea where you could be sacked for finishing 2nd, a title challenge and finishing top 4 will be enough at Manchester United.  This was supposed to be his dream job, with great players and all he had to do was get his head down and make the club succesful again. Instead he's just miserable and acting like a twat again. They need to get rid because it's not gonna get any better.

 

I remember when he was sacked last year, I thought he deliberately engineered the move by acting up so he could get sacked and get the Utd job but now looks like I was way off. He's a twat regardless of where he goes. 

Or maybe, just maybe, United wasn't actually his dream job? A option he always had open yes, but i never quite brought into this dream job thing. United fans seemed to think the definite proof was when he said the best team loss after Real beat them, he said the same once when we beat Wigan, maybe he was trying to butter up Dave Whelan all along?

Although i got to say it is hilarious watching this. Start of the season this was suppose to be the job that mellowed him and put him in his place, and he's acting worse than ever before.

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15 minutes ago, Ivanov87 said:

I'm pretty sure his father is still alive. And if his fathers illness is affecting his management, then perhaps he should step down and  be with him and let the club find someone else who can manage. It's not fair on Utd that they have to suffer whilst he keeps dealing with his personal issues. 

I thought he'd died, I know he was really ill. Well as someone whose lost their Dad and sat through a cancer battle I can say been at work really helped. I don't think it's as simple as you seem to think it is.

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2 hours ago, Bobbywoodhogan said:

I thought he'd died, I know he was really ill. Well as someone whose lost their Dad and sat through a cancer battle I can say been at work really helped. I don't think it's as simple as you seem to think it is.

I'm sorry for your loss, Bob. It must have had a huge impact on your life.

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On 11/27/2016 at 14:06, Zeta Orionis said:

I wonder how much his father's illness has played a part in how he's changed over the last few years, because he hasn't been the same for a while now.

I wasn't aware that his father is ill. That is certainly a big stressor that puts people into a bad mood. If that's the reason behind his personal displays recently, then perhaps he needs to take a break and tend to his family. 

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1 hour ago, offside said:

I wasn't aware that his father is ill. That is certainly a big stressor that puts people into a bad mood. If that's the reason behind his personal displays recently, then perhaps he needs to take a break and tend to his family. 

I think he's been ill for about 18 months or so, which could explain a lot.  

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5 minutes ago, Beerqueen said:

I think he's been ill for about 18 months or so, which could explain a lot.  

If he couldn't cope mentally with working while this is happening he should have left us on the spot. What's happened the last 18 months has been detrimental to Chelsea, United and most importantly/evidently off all his mental health, seriously i have seen people be sectioned for less than some of the stuff he has done and said of recent.

Didn't he say Rui Faria could walk into management right now? If that's the case then couldn't he have taken temporary charge while Jose recovered and got better? Like Phil Thompson did for Gerard Houlier at Liverpool.

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The problem with his managerial style is that it becomes a parody of itself when the results aren't forthcoming.

There is no accountability with Jose. Everything is always someone else's fault - the referees, the medical staff, the players for getting injured. The famous 'siege mentality' has diminished from "the world against our club" to "the world against Jose".  Competitiveness without accountability is just narcissism. He sounds like someone who is dealing with the depression and anxious paranoia that is associated with burn out.

I fear that only time away from the game to re-energise and re-focus will address his problems, not just on the field but for the sake of his own health too.

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I didn't know Jose had those personal problems. If that's the case, for his own sake and the family, he should retire and on leave for a while. It's not like he's ever going to be short of money. Back in his good days, he rarely publicly crittise or question his players, he's been doing that a lot in the last 18 months. Funny enough, Smalling and Shaw haven't played since Jose's last outburst, maybe they really got injured to prove the point. Looking at Conte, he didn't throw Cahill under the bus when Cahill basically handed the game to Swansea and Arsenal. Drop the player if he's not performing, no point humiliating him in the media.

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10 hours ago, Tibbers said:

Now he's about to get banned. . . . again.  I wonder what Wenger's feeling right now.

Probably smug as sh*t because he (Wenger) was also sent off for kicking a water bottle, but instead of a ban he got an apology. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8229352.stm

The FA are a joke. 

Edited by offside
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He's lost the plot, the slightest hint that things aren't going his way on the field and hes like a petulant brat.

I loved him, was shell shocked when he left in 2008, euphoric when he came back for his second spell. When he was sacked last season though I thought it was the right time to move on, still thought he would haunt us big time with United though. it's not happening though is it, seems Jose has changed and this what you get now with him, he is burning bridges rapidly now, and whilst teams put up with his sh*t in the past because he got results, that's not the case now.

I genuinely believe he is finished as a top tier coach.

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He needs to take a proper break from football and just get away from it all for a while.

He can remain close to his family, help his father who's going through significant health problems and most importantly just recharge the batteries without the pressure that football entails in this day and age.

I think he looks burnt out more than anything else. As each day and month passes by, part of me continues to admit I was wrong in saying that we made a mistake in sacking him last year, but the benefit of hindsight suggests that we made the right call despite the difficulty of it at the time.

He hasn't been the same man since his time at Real Madrid, but things have escalated in the last 18 months to the point he's unrecognisable from 8 to 10 years ago.

Edited by Jezz
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5 hours ago, Blue Exile said:

He's lost the plot, the slightest hint that things aren't going his way on the field and hes like a petulant brat.

I loved him, was shell shocked when he left in 2008, euphoric when he came back for his second spell. When he was sacked last season though I thought it was the right time to move on, still thought he would haunt us big time with United though. it's not happening though is it, seems Jose has changed and this what you get now with him, he is burning bridges rapidly now, and whilst teams put up with his sh*t in the past because he got results, that's not the case now.

I genuinely believe he is finished as a top tier coach.

Agree with that except the last line.... the long break and back to the drawing board I reckon

A lot of great people have been able to  re-invented themselves.

On the other hand, we could be proven wrong, he might have a great second half to the season. he would love that !

 

  

 

  

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Jose's greatest strength as a manager was his self belief and unshakable confidence, not only in his methods but in himself. This created a 'mentality' that used to literally imprint it's self upon his players and teams,  however it now seems to have become 'twisted' and is hence leading to his downfall.

Let me explain.

Mourinho's sheer force of personality practically drove Porto to Champions League Glory and shortly after he arrived here as the self proclaimed "Special One" a moniker that from anyone else, especially a new manager in a new league,  would sound ludicrous, yet José's charisma and the way in which he handled himself in front of the media was a complete breath of fresh air, he was arrogant but you couldn't help but like him for it.

Back to back league titles and the Special One's aura, not to mention words, had been firmly backed up.

When you examine Jose's managing style from this period it becomes clear that the one thing he always asked of his player was 100% complete and utter commitment to the cause, and no doubt commitment to him. He was the General leading his men into battle, there was to be no defeat and no surrender allowed under any circumstances.  The below video is a great example of him breeding this mentality within the Chelsea camp first time around.  

 

"We cannot lose, we cannot lose" You follow ME we win, you believe in ME we become Champions.

It's no surprise that when you see interviews of former Mourinho players, you often hear them describe playing for Jose was like 'going to war' and that every game was a 'battle'. It's like he wasn't so much trying to implement a style of play on his teams but a mentality and way of being that fought tooth and nail until the bitter end and would achieve success by any means necessary.

Any player who failed to show the mental strength or commitment to such a cause was quickly surplus to requirements, and we all know that Jose has no problem showing players the door.

Whilst this method has proven greatly successful for Mourinho, the only problem is that when your relying on implementing a 'mentality' rather than a style of play or a footballing 'philosophy' then you have to keep that mentality up yourself, at all times, you have to become it, you have to always be 'top dog' and never show any sign of weakness, never back down or budge an inch. How many times have we seen such behavior displayed by Jose? You needn't have to count anymore.      

So when did the rot set in? Well I think we all know that Jose was sacked first time around by Chelsea because him and Abramovich clearly didn't see eye to eye in regards to both how the team should play and also the players that were coming in. A part of me feels that Roman felt threatened by Jose's increasing influence and power within Chelsea, he was becoming Chelsea and the whole 'Shevchenko' situation seemed to signal that both manager and owner were clearly heading in different directions, Abramovich clearly wanted Mourinho to know who was in charge and thus the post became untenable. Even so, when Jose returned to Stamford bridge after his sacking for the first time as manager of Inter Milan, you can quite clearly see how he still owned the hearts and minds of his former players.

  

 

Soon after Jose went on to win his second Champions League title with Inter and again showed what happens when a team buys into him.  

 

 

The bond with his players was unquestionable and at this moment in time he was the best manager in club football and soon Real Madrid came knocking.

Now just try and imagine how Mourinho must of felt at this point in time in regards to his own success as a manager, not only was he a double Champions League winner but he had proven once again not only to himself but also to Chelsea, that it was Him that brought success and that it was Him who delivered trophies, regardless of what anyone else tried to say or do, he could go to another country, another league and still come out on top. He knew that it was because he did things his way and that his success depended on this unequivocally. To put it simply, a man who had never had a problem displaying his Ego now had absolutely no reason not to believe in his own hype, and that anyone who objected to this  just lacked the respect that he clearly deserved to be shown.

When he tried to cement this fact upon the Real Madrid dressing room by dropping Iker Casillas from the first team for committing the cardinal sin of trying to smooth things over with the enemy (calling Barcelona players)  his war mongering style was becoming tiresome for a group of players who were keen to prevent fractures developing within the national team. This time Mourinho's antics hadn't just been confined to his own team but were starting to be felt within the larger context of Spanish football, and for many were leaving a sour taste in the mouth, or in Tito Vilanova's case, a sore eye.

However, what seemed to hurt Jose more than anything was not so much the reputation he was developing in Spain but the fact that his players and club didn't love him and that they wouldn't die for him, for a man that demanded complete and utter loyalty this was a huge blow, it was high treason. Yet for a manger who's success derives so much from the mentality he displays, one in which he himself has beome consumed by, the only way forward was to continue in the same vein and become more and more defensive and vitriolic to any perceived slights levied against him.

We all saw how this started to play out after the 'fairy tale' return to Chelsea the second time around, where I believe his aura at the club was still strong enough to carry him though until things turned sour again. the 'Eva' incident showing how his 'paranoia' and requirement to always have a scapegoat available when results on the pitch were not forthcoming had gotten way out of hand.

The reason why Mourinho's behavior has become increasingly antagonistic without yielding results is because even if his players don't seem to be responding to his methods any more, he can't let go of them himself.   

He has become his own methods and his ego is built upon that fact, to admit mistake is to admit he is wrong within his very own being. Basically his ego is doing everything within it's power to survive this absolutely crushing realization, and this is the problem because now this 'fear' is seeping into the mentality of his players and his teams.

Ironically it's Jose's mentality that is now proving to be his undoing, because when your greatest strength in motivating a team to success starts to fear for it's own survival it starts having the complete opposite effect. If Jose changes so do his teams, because his teams are built in his image!          

The once, arrogant, charismatic, confident, charming and inspiring Jose has now become the arrogant, petulant, paranoid, angry, and unfriendly Jose

It really is a case of 'The emperor's new clothes' and I fear until Jose recognizes this within himself things are probably going to continue to become troublesome for him.

There are few things harder in the world than becoming aware of one's own Ego, let alone changing it, especially when it's taken you to the top of the world.

"I cannot lose, I cannot lose"

My two cents.

 

 

                                                      

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