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On 22/11/2020 at 21:28, BluesPower said:

Kante's return to form has the added bonus that Frank can see we don't need to splash obscene cash on Declan Rice.

I'll be honest i am still yet to see anything from Declan Rice to warrant all the hype. I make a point now of watching him wherever posisble when WHU are on TV. Sorry, i just don't get it. So little influence. For me a bang average player. Sorry.

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1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I'll be honest i am still yet to see anything from Declan Rice to warrant all the hype. I make a point now of watching him wherever posisble when WHU are on TV. Sorry, i just don't get it. So little influence. For me a bang average player. Sorry.

It's Lampard's long term plan, Rice and Mount will be partners for England for years to come and I think he sees them doing well for us as well. 

I personally think that we can give Ampadu and Gilmour that trust instead of Rice but I saw more than a few articles that talked about how Lampard still wants Rice.

Maybe the board won't support the Rice signing now that our defence has drastically improved.

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I've seen a few people on this message board push this narrative that Kante is proving all the haters and doubters wrong, it looks like those people (as usual) have missed the point. 

I'm fully aware me and numerous others were very sceptical that Kante is the same player, and that was a perfectly fine assessment given his performances in the last 2 years. 

But he hasn't gotten better, he's just playing in a position that suits his key attributes and fortunately he still has that recovery pace and sharpness. I mean is it really that bad for people to doubt a player has lost his edge at 29 coming on 30 after about 20 recorded injuries in the space of 2 years? No. 

We saw it on Tuesday, Kante was woeful going forward and kept giving the ball away. But this newfound position he's playing in where he keeps it simple and rarely has the ball is something he is playing well in. When he's playing next to Jorginho it just goes sour, neither complement one another, and Kante's distribution still isn't good enough. But that's perfectly fine, Lampard has made the right adjustments. We now play with a lot of attackers in the line-up and don't rely on deep lying midfielders anymore. 

What @Argo and numerous others have said is still spot on. Kante isn't playing in the same role as he has been two seasons prior. Before that, it was hard to see a future for him under Lampard because the way Lampard wanted to play just didn't accommodate Kante at all, with the assistance of bringing in Ziyech and Havertz, and playing Mount deeper, it helps greatly. If Kante keeps it simple and is restricted to purely defensive duties, he will play well. 

So, before some of you people start bashing all the "doubters", try and think for a second and reassess what people were actually saying. 

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On 23/11/2020 at 21:08, bisright1 said:

More like he wants to buy rice because he's been one of the best defensive midfielders in the premier league this season and he's only 21.

If declan rice was playing for lazio and was italian the same people who are being sniffy about him would  be desperate to sign him. 

It's likely that we wouldn't have heard of him. 

The thing is, it's a double edged sword. I've seen people completely dismiss English players and just completely underrate them, like Mount for example. But at the same time, the English media does hype up our players to ridiculous levels. If Rice was called Ricietti and played for Lazio, what are the chances we would've heard of him really? We probably wouldn't have. Declan is decent and has talent, but he is overrated for obvious reasons. 

However, same could've been said for Chilwell and to his credit he's done well here. 

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16 hours ago, Slojo said:

It's likely that we wouldn't have heard of him. 

The thing is, it's a double edged sword. I've seen people completely dismiss English players and just completely underrate them, like Mount for example. But at the same time, the English media does hype up our players to ridiculous levels. If Rice was called Ricietti and played for Lazio, what are the chances we would've heard of him really? We probably wouldn't have. Declan is decent and has talent, but he is overrated for obvious reasons. 

However, same could've been said for Chilwell and to his credit he's done well here. 

I was very subtly referring to Tonali who Gol has previously demanded we sign. Just thought saying a 20 year old for brescia might be a bit too on the nose. 

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On 28/11/2020 at 11:19, bisright1 said:

I was very subtly referring to Tonali who Gol has previously demanded we sign. Just thought saying a 20 year old for brescia might be a bit too on the nose. 

Tonali is a great talent, he's 1 year younger than Rice but already in the Italian squad. You'll probably hear a lot more about him in the next years.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Tonali is a great talent, he's 1 year younger than Rice but already in the Italian squad. You'll probably hear a lot more about him in the next years.

 

 

Unfortunately, not exactly an achievement these days.  Tonali (and Jorginho, when he plays) sticks out like a sore thumb

England have a much better squad than Italy in all areas except goalkeeper.

Edited by SydneyChelsea
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On 27/11/2020 at 17:46, Slojo said:

I've seen a few people on this message board push this narrative that Kante is proving all the haters and doubters wrong, it looks like those people (as usual) have missed the point. 

I'm fully aware me and numerous others were very sceptical that Kante is the same player, and that was a perfectly fine assessment given his performances in the last 2 years. 

But he hasn't gotten better, he's just playing in a position that suits his key attributes and fortunately he still has that recovery pace and sharpness. I mean is it really that bad for people to doubt a player has lost his edge at 29 coming on 30 after about 20 recorded injuries in the space of 2 years? No. 

We saw it on Tuesday, Kante was woeful going forward and kept giving the ball away. But this newfound position he's playing in where he keeps it simple and rarely has the ball is something he is playing well in. When he's playing next to Jorginho it just goes sour, neither complement one another, and Kante's distribution still isn't good enough. But that's perfectly fine, Lampard has made the right adjustments. We now play with a lot of attackers in the line-up and don't rely on deep lying midfielders anymore. 

What @Argo and numerous others have said is still spot on. Kante isn't playing in the same role as he has been two seasons prior. Before that, it was hard to see a future for him under Lampard because the way Lampard wanted to play just didn't accommodate Kante at all, with the assistance of bringing in Ziyech and Havertz, and playing Mount deeper, it helps greatly. If Kante keeps it simple and is restricted to purely defensive duties, he will play well. 

So, before some of you people start bashing all the "doubters", try and think for a second and reassess what people were actually saying. 

I also think Kante has adjusted his role and is a little slower, still fast by other players' standards.

Good cross for Giroud's goal too.

 

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I've noticed in the last couple of games especially Kante has started dropping between the two CB's a lot more during certain phases of play (when we have possession).

Can't even demonstrate how happy I am about that, it's a crucial element at CDM these days mainly because it allows our fullbacks to get higher and wider up the pitch a lot quicker.

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14 minutes ago, Argo said:

Can't even demonstrate how happy I am about that, it's a crucial element at CDM these days mainly because it allows our fullbacks to get higher and wider up the pitch a lot quicker.

Klopp, Mourinho and Guardiola have all used their CDMs as stand-in Centre Backs lately (Fabinho, Dier, Fernandinhio). Nice to see Kante has evolved to be able to carry out that role, although a little on the short side! 

It's more useful from a passing/possession basis than a defending one.

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13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

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First assist for him ever in the CL. Still a better box-to-box than DM.

He is Gol, but the way we play we don't need a box to box player, or that Kante from a few years ago. 

In the role he's playing now, it suits our system, that's the main thing. Kante is now literally doing what all those dinosaur pundits thought he was doing for years, which is quite amusing really. There's no doubt that Leicester and Conte's Kante was a player who was up and down the pitch running the game. But under Lampard we don't play that way, we hog possession and like to camp in the oppositions half, Kante offers nothing in that setup if he's not playing in the position he's playing in now. 

Got to have faith in the way we are playing now, why revert it for the sake of a 29 year old coming on 30 just so he can play box to box again? Currently, I'm happy with the results and performances, from Kante especially. 

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He has been recently switched to box-to-box by the conservative Deschamps. It works for France because he has a partner in Pogba who can drop back and defend. Chelsea does not have such a complete complementary player. And Chelsea is not going to be hogging possession against Liverpool or City, or their knockout stage CL opponent, anytime soon. To challenge for titles, Chelsea needs to make use of ALL that Kante can do. 

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38 minutes ago, KnowItAll said:

He has been recently switched to box-to-box by the conservative Deschamps. It works for France because he has a partner in Pogba who can drop back and defend. Chelsea does not have such a complete complementary player. And Chelsea is not going to be hogging possession against Liverpool or City, or their knockout stage CL opponent, anytime soon. To challenge for titles, Chelsea needs to make use of ALL that Kante can do. 

We need to buy Pogba obviously!

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7 hours ago, Slojo said:

He is Gol, but the way we play we don't need a box to box player, or that Kante from a few years ago. 

In the role he's playing now, it suits our system, that's the main thing. Kante is now literally doing what all those dinosaur pundits thought he was doing for years, which is quite amusing really. There's no doubt that Leicester and Conte's Kante was a player who was up and down the pitch running the game. But under Lampard we don't play that way, we hog possession and like to camp in the oppositions half, Kante offers nothing in that setup if he's not playing in the position he's playing in now. 

Got to have faith in the way we are playing now, why revert it for the sake of a 29 year old coming on 30 just so he can play box to box again? Currently, I'm happy with the results and performances, from Kante especially. 

Clearly him being more forward makes him influence the game on a much higher note, Lampard putting him there as a sub has resulted in 3 goals in opposed to him sitting deeper. That's him being higher up the pitch in 3 different games for about 20 minutes in each only, clearly he can play deeper and that could be his new permanent role for the future but he still has a lot to offer just playing his natural game.

It's about using the player in the best way, in most games we maybe don't need Kante to do his natural role as Mount and others clearly can press and win the ball but against some teams he could offer something extra when we are looking more passive and just holding on not to make a mistake. Because when Kante is at his best that energy can lift up the whole team, he doesn't lose much if he fails to win the ball back in the opposition half but if he does get it back it can lead to a good opportunity. Same with his forward runs, yes he might not be good at creating a chance but when everyone else is just not being explosive enough Kante can make a good run when the opposition doesn't expect it, he had a lot of space for the cross and he delivered it really well, Giroud takes that any day of the week.

Edited by Gol15
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2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Clearly him being more forward makes him influence the game on a much higher note, Lampard putting him there as a sub has resulted in 3 goals in opposed to him sitting deeper. That's him being higher up the pitch in 3 different games for about 20 minutes in each only, clearly he can play deeper and that could be his new permanent role for the future but he still has a lot to offer just playing his natural game.

It's about using the player in the best way, in most games we maybe don't need Kante to do his natural role as Mount and others clearly can press and win the ball but against some teams he could offer something extra when we are looking more passive and just holding on not to make a mistake. Because when Kante is at his best that energy can lift up the whole team, he doesn't lose much if he fails to win the ball back in the opposition half but if he does get it back it can lead to a good opportunity. Same with his forward runs, yes he might not be good at creating a chance but when everyone else is just not being explosive enough Kante can make a good run when the opposition doesn't expect it, he had a lot of space for the cross and he delivered it really well, Giroud takes that any day of the week.

I'm not going to get into a big argument here because I'm happy with the state of the club and Kante so far, but here's what I'm going to say. He's not good enough in the advanced role, he doesn't move the ball around fast enough, he lacks the creativity. I personally was never a fan of Kante under Sarri, and I wasn’t a fan of Kante last season. But now, this is the best I've seen Kante play in ages, so how isn't that enough to lift the team? I'm not understanding here. Lampard has found him a good role to play in, a 10-minute performance against Sevilla doesn't change that. His most impressive performances this season have come from staying behind, covering and breaking up play. We have plenty of other attacking units in the team to be utilised, why do we need to change Kante's position??? 

Because he made a good cross?? Ramires had some spectacular moments in a Chelsea shirt. I remember his 2nd Chelsea goal where he just ran through the Man City defence and chipped the keeper, the season after he whipped in that amazing cross to Drogba and scored that goal at the Nou Camp. But was Ramires a good footballer? Definitely not. In fact, Ramires was always better suited as an engine, despite having a good highlight reel and some great goals and assists, the reality was a lot different. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I'm not going to get into a big argument here because I'm happy with the state of the club and Kante so far, but here's what I'm going to say. He's not good enough in the advanced role, he doesn't move the ball around fast enough, he lacks the creativity. I personally was never a fan of Kante under Sarri, and I wasn’t a fan of Kante last season. But now, this is the best I've seen Kante play in ages, so how isn't that enough to lift the team? I'm not understanding here. Lampard has found him a good role to play in, a 10-minute performance against Sevilla doesn't change that. His most impressive performances this season have come from staying behind, covering and breaking up play. We have plenty of other attacking units in the team to be utilised, why do we need to change Kante's position??? 

Because he made a good cross?? Ramires had some spectacular moments in a Chelsea shirt. I remember his 2nd Chelsea goal where he just ran through the Man City defence and chipped the keeper, the season after he whipped in that amazing cross to Drogba and scored that goal at the Nou Camp. But was Ramires a good footballer? Definitely not. In fact, Ramires was always better suited as an engine, despite having a good highlight reel and some great goals and assists, the reality was a lot different. 

 

Fact is Lampard has been using him in multiple ways and that has benefited the whole team. It would be a mistake to limit the player like that specially since he's more involved when he has a more free role. 

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1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Man of the match tonight. Kept going past his man, especially in the second half which open spaces in Leeds man for man marking system. 

Back to his brilliant self this season. 

I thought Silva just shaded him tonight but he is playing great because we're allowing him to do what he does well: Covering space, making tackles and closing down. We're not asking him to play out of position to shoehorn another player into the team. He's world class, walks into any team in the world. It's embarrassing that some on here were calling for him to be sold. Well embarrassing for them, because surely the club weren't so stupid to entertain such an idea.

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