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Welcome N’Golo Kante

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2 minutes ago, kiwi1691 said:

Kante is and always has been best as a b2b, so where is the experiment?

How can you possibly deny he is not playing in his usual position?  I was listening to the Radio 5 commentary while watching the stream and the 'experts' were saying pretty much the same thing - great player but not in this position. He was one of the true world class players we have in his old position. Its laughable to suggest he's remotely world class  trying to create and score which is what he needs to be doing in this position.

 

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8 minutes ago, kiwi1691 said:

Kante is and always has been best as a b2b, so where is the experiment?

This is exactly what he was for leicester, he was box to box as you say, not just a destroyer. 

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15 minutes ago, dkw said:

Unbeaten in all competitions, 2 points of super dooper city, 2nd highest goal scorers, 3rd best defence. Clearly not working.

Yes, overall the team is doing very well but individuals can still be singled out, as Christensen has been. I'm not saying Kante has been as poor as Christensen, but he's not been anywhere near as good or important to us as he has been in the previous years. He's still working hard and still getting in some good tackles but that's only half the job - he is not creative enough and doesn't score and thats what we need much more of from him in that position.

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Just now, Dixon said:

he is not creative enough and doesn't score and thats what we need much more of from him in that position.

No it isn't, his main job clearly isn't to score or assist, he has a role to play the same as jorginho in keeping the ball in our possession, then getting it back as soon as we can if we do lose it. Not every player needs to score or assist, he is still incredibly important in a different role to the past few seasons, but because we are now basing our game on possession rather than counter attacking his job in different, and he is still doing it very well.

What exactly did you see today to make it his worst ever performance?

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

What exactly did you see today to make it his worst ever performance?

He basically sent Crystal Palace away on counters several times with his passing and touches today. Certainly thought it was one of his poorest displays for us.
A better team would have capitalized more then Palace did.

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If he wasn't in the team we would miss him badly, people will then realise what he is contributing. People have to remember aswell is that we have so much more possession this season than his previous 3 that he doesn't have to do as much tackling.

Edited by jack_super_class

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I'm happy with how Kante is playing, he can pass and put pressure and recover the possession fast and all that he did this last game, when the opportunity comes he will dribble past someone and score like he did vs Manure some seasons ago.

Kovacic is trying a lot more passes into space and it didn't work.

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IMO he's not as good at the style of play we're trying to do (lots and lots of short passing), but the stuff he's good at (insane workrate) is still there. It's just not being used as much because we have 70% possession. When we face teams who are better, or when teams start to suss out our style a bit, we'll be glad of him all over again. When we need to crank it up, make a few sacrifices, he'll be there. Doing the work of two players. Just like Azpilicueta, who we're thinking now "Oooh, I wish he could get forward a bit better", but there will be times when we are under the cosh, and we'll be glad we have the best pure defender in the league in the side. 

3 hours ago, dkw said:

This is exactly what he was for leicester, he was box to box as you say, not just a destroyer. 

The joke at Leicester was "Drinkwater in the middle, Kante either side". 

The role is the same. The style of play is different. 

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5 hours ago, dkw said:

No it isn't, his main job clearly isn't to score or assist, he has a role to play the same as jorginho in keeping the ball in our possession, then getting it back as soon as we can if we do lose it. Not every player needs to score or assist, he is still incredibly important in a different role to the past few seasons, but because we are now basing our game on possession rather than counter attacking his job in different, and he is still doing it very well.

What exactly did you see today to make it his worst ever performance?

As others have said his passing was poor and better teams would have made more from it. 

As I said, I had to  I wanted to hear English with the stream I was watching and the 5 Live team were saying he was lucky not to be subbed. This growing criticism was unthinkable up until this season!  On MOTD he barely gets a mention now, which is a massive difference from his previous seasons when almost every week his awesome performances were highlighted. He wouldn't get in Man City's third team in this position!  

 

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4 hours ago, Sindre said:

He basically sent Crystal Palace away on counters several times with his passing and touches today. Certainly thought it was one of his poorest displays for us.
A better team would have capitalized more then Palace did.

Yup, I noticed this as well. He lost the ball quite a few times with poor passes. His passing needs a bit of work, but he is needed to cover for the defensive frailties of the other midfielders, so he has to play

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6 hours ago, Dixon said:

How can you possibly deny he is not playing in his usual position?  I was listening to the Radio 5 commentary while watching the stream and the 'experts' were saying pretty much the same thing - great player but not in this position. He was one of the true world class players we have in his old position. Its laughable to suggest he's remotely world class  trying to create and score which is what he needs to be doing in this position.

 

Firstly most pundits are idiots. 

Secondly, the thing that makes Kante great is his engine. At Leicester, Drinkwater was the destroyer and Kante was the b2b. When he moved here Matic was the destroyer and Kante was the b2b. People who think that Kante is nothing more than a DM are doing him a disservice. 

You need to accept that Kante's job is different in a possession style of football, than it was under a counterattacking style.  That doesn't make him a worse player, just different.

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6 hours ago, dkw said:

No it isn't, his main job clearly isn't to score or assist, he has a role to play the same as jorginho in keeping the ball in our possession, then getting it back as soon as we can if we do lose it. Not every player needs to score or assist, he is still incredibly important in a different role to the past few seasons, but because we are now basing our game on possession rather than counter attacking his job in different, and he is still doing it very well.

What exactly did you see today to make it his worst ever performance?

I think the problem is Chelsea has played counterattacking football for so long, that many Chelsea fans still are getting used to the differences of possession football. 

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12 hours ago, Dixon said:

Yes, overall the team is doing very well but individuals can still be singled out, as Christensen has been. I'm not saying Kante has been as poor as Christensen, but he's not been anywhere near as good or important to us as he has been in the previous years. He's still working hard and still getting in some good tackles but that's only half the job - he is not creative enough and doesn't score and thats what we need much more of from him in that position.

You can say exactly the same thing about Kovacic!

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14 hours ago, Dixon said:

How can you possibly deny he is not playing in his usual position?  I was listening to the Radio 5 commentary while watching the stream and the 'experts' were saying pretty much the same thing - great player but not in this position. He was one of the true world class players we have in his old position. Its laughable to suggest he's remotely world class  trying to create and score which is what he needs to be doing in this position.

 

What exactly do you think his 'usual' position is?

At Caen he played on the right of a three man midfield playing box to box and got his move to the Premier league. 

At Leicester he played box to box in a two man midfield with Drinkwater holding and got his move to Chelsea.

First two seasons at Chelsea he was a box to box whilst Matic played the holding role and got fantastic reviews.

For France he has looked the poorest whilst playing the Makalele role of a three man midfield. 

The position isn't the issue, the issue is that now we actually keep possession he looks less effective as he's not having to make 120 recoveries a game. 

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6 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

What exactly do you think his 'usual' position is?

At Caen he played on the right of a three man midfield playing box to box and got his move to the Premier league. 

At Leicester he played box to box in a two man midfield with Drinkwater holding and got his move to Chelsea.

First two seasons at Chelsea he was a box to box whilst Matic played the holding role and got fantastic reviews.

For France he has looked the poorest whilst playing the Makalele role of a three man midfield. 

The position isn't the issue, the issue is that now we actually keep possession he looks less effective as he's not having to make 120 recoveries a game. 

Hate it when I agree with rip

It's not the position, it's the style of football. If we have the ball, kante has never looked world class. We just usually have the ball now. 

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2 minutes ago, benjsross said:

Hate it when I agree with rip

It's not the position, it's the style of football. If we have the ball, kante has never looked world class. We just usually have the ball now. 

Its okay mate, everyone just hates that i'm always right :wink:

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I think if we went back to 30% possession Kante would be the star of the show again with everyone raving about his tackling and winnin* the ball back. Thinks have changed for the better all round and I think he’s still doing a good job. Much better on the ball than people give him credit for. 

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He just needs a bit confidence to shoot the ball and jump on the defenders in 1 on 1 situations. He is not bad, we've sen him scoring or dribbling, he is just scared to do it more often now that he can. 

If you  think that we can play 4-3-3 with zero midfielders having knowledge on defense, then you are very delusional. Matuidi plays for France and Juventus, both teams playing dominative and high possessive the ball football, and he is a natural DM but play exactly like Kante - deep in both halfs, making runs  and helping the defenders. And he is great. He ain't better than Kante, just doing it longer and he's gained a lot of confidence. 

It's not about position, it's about N'golo. He needs to throw his humble persona away and play like he can. 

Edited by Giordano_Bruno

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I think Kante under Sarri is a work in progress.

Yesterday along with Barkley his distribution was poor at times. Kante's work rate and closing down was good though his link up play with the forwards seems a bit laborious at times.

Barkley though not as good at defensive duties seems to link up better with the forward players.

Both can shoot though Barkley is the natural shooter.

Kante though a great runner seems to lack the muscle bulk to really crack the ball though he has scored the odd goal by clever placement rather than strength.

 

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Kante absolutely needs more time but I have no doubt he will be once again a key player in his position. To be fair he already is but the standard is so high set by himself that he willneed to improve. 

He needs to see football as a scoring game and he needs to want to score. 

All his abilities indicate he can be a true box to box midfielder. Now he is training to be. 

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The 30-35% of time when the opposition have the ball, that's where Kante earns his big bucks. Like the game yesterday, opposition only needs 20% of the possession to cause us problems, and that's where we need a Kante. He doesn't have the hollywood pass, but his short passing is crisp and accurate, we want him to release other players, not to holding up the ball.

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16 hours ago, Dixon said:

That was his poorest performance since arriving in the EPL.

You've been asked several times to give examples, and have failed dismally to do so.  Did Kante piss on your chips one time to make you have this opinion, because it obviously isn't based on haveing watched the match or any sort of football knowledge?

15 hours ago, Sindre said:

He basically sent Crystal Palace away on counters several times with his passing and touches today. 

And how many goals, or even half-chance did he ste up for them?

10 hours ago, Dixon said:

He wouldn't get in Man City's third team in this position!  

Now you are just embarrassing yourself.  Stupid boy, Pike.

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1 hour ago, goose said:

I think if we went back to 30% possession Kante would be the star of the show again with everyone raving about his tackling and winnin* the ball back. Thinks have changed for the better all round and I think he’s still doing a good job. Much better on the ball than people give him credit for. 

He was immense in that second half against Liverpool when we didn't have much of the ball. 

At the end of the day it's Sarri's system, he knows which players fit where, and considering the start we have had, I don't see why his decisions are being so heavily questioned. 

 

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