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IliyaKrostin

Welcome N’Golo Kante

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Compared to what he can give us if put back in.........its night and day. He has a V12 engine but only gets to utilize 6 at most now. He is decent, but nothing like what he used to give us.

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There is a big elephant in the room.

He's a fantastic player but for a certain style of football. For the Mourinho, Conte, and Simeones of the world he'll be one of the most valuable players in the game.
But he'll never be suited for Sarri-ball. He is not able to do what we need from our midfielders that are flanking Jorginho to put it bluntly.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Sindre said:

There is a big elephant in the room.

Yesterday was the type of performance, that whatever nitpicks you have with the players on this team, you got ammunition. I don't think anyone had a good game... other than maybe Kepa, who may could have done better early, but was kept us in the game afterwards. Beyond that, whatever criticisms you have of ANY player in this team, it probably showed itself against Spurs. 

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2 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Yesterday was the type of performance, that whatever nitpicks you have with the players on this team, you got ammunition. I don't think anyone had a good game... other than maybe Kepa, who may could have done better early, but was kept us in the game afterwards. Beyond that, whatever criticisms you have of ANY player in this team, it probably showed itself against Spurs. 

I don't think this is a pick on Kante's ability, Kante is an extremely good player and I think we need to utilise him correctly. He's that good that I would even go as far as saying that we need to build the team around him, I just can't see him adapting to Sarri ball because we aren't getting the full Kante package. 

I've been saying this for a while and I haven't really liked the look of Kante in this team for at least 2 months now, I think we have to change the way we play. 

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30 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Yesterday was the type of performance, that whatever nitpicks you have with the players on this team, you got ammunition. I don't think anyone had a good game... other than maybe Kepa, who may could have done better early, but was kept us in the game afterwards. Beyond that, whatever criticisms you have of ANY player in this team, it probably showed itself against Spurs. 

It's not about yesterday though.
This has been an issue all season. When is the last time he was fantastic? Previous seasons we've been used to Kante being fantastic week in week out, even last season when everything crumbled he was the one who still performed.

This season he's asked to do things he can't do and we aren't using his best qualities in any way.

And i am not blaming Kante here, he's a fantastic player. But in a certain system as i've already said.

Edited by Sindre

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54 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't think this is a pick on Kante's ability, Kante is an extremely good player and I think we need to utilise him correctly. He's that good that I would even go as far as saying that we need to build the team around him, I just can't see him adapting to Sarri ball because we aren't getting the full Kante package. 

I've been saying this for a while and I haven't really liked the look of Kante in this team for at least 2 months now, I think we have to change the way we play. 

You want to build a team around a defensive midfielder? Okay..

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36 minutes ago, Sindre said:

t's not about yesterday though.
This has been an issue all season.

I get it. I actually think Kante was our best player yesterday. He still gets the ball back a ton of times. 

My point was only that, if you happen to criticize any one player yesterday, for things you see as a problem, it can come off as more of an agenda, because they were all bad. All of them. 

That’s why I’ve stayed out of the Willian thread for the last 24 hours. Any criticism I’ve had of him for, well his entire Chelsea career, was in full display yesterday... but...

Rudiger - had maybe his worst game of the season 

Luiz - Ugh

Alonso - was a turnstile 

Azpi - avoids some of the blame because he wasn’t as blatantly bad as the other 3

Jorginho - worst game of the season

Kante - a demon winning the ball back, didn’t offer much going forward 

Kovacic/Barkley - virtually no impact

Hazard - never looked threatening, didn’t impose himself on the game 

Morata - can’t stay on his feet, can’t stay onside

Willian - hovered in and around the game. Nice skill in places on the pitch that don’t affect the game 

Pedro - Forgot he was in the field for most of the time after he came on. Physically limited 

Giroud - Well taken goal  

I guess all I’m saying is that if you were trying to make a point about any specific player, and you use yesterday as an example, yes you’re probably right, but goodness, they were all bad. 

 

Edited by Skinnedy
Missed Alonso- and he was bad too

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3 minutes ago, ducavis said:

You want to build a team around a defensive midfielder? Okay..

It's not about building a team around him, what's the point, if he were to (god forbid) get a long term injury who would replace him. But so far this season we really aren't seeing the best of him. To be honest i don't know what's best to do.

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3 hours ago, Kev56 said:

It's not about building a team around him, what's the point, if he were to (god forbid) get a long term injury who would replace him. But so far this season we really aren't seeing the best of him. To be honest i don't know what's best to do.

An interesting stat is every winning team he has been on has been a counter attacking team. Leicester exploited the pace of Mahrez on the right, Conte’s 3-5-2 and France using Mbappé as an outlet. He will always look good against the top teams because we won’t be controlling the game, and their will be balls to worn back. It is against the other 15 or so other teams he will be found wanting in a possession based team. Short term Sarri either goes back to the 3-5-2 which allows him to sit in a 2 with Jorginho, or 4-2-3-1 but we don’t have a 10 in the team. 

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5 hours ago, Sindre said:

It's not about yesterday though.
This has been an issue all season. When is the last time he was fantastic? Previous seasons we've been used to Kante being fantastic week in week out, even last season when everything crumbled he was the one who still performed.

This season he's asked to do things he can't do and we aren't using his best qualities in any way.

And i am not blaming Kante here, he's a fantastic player. But in a certain system as i've already said.

Exactly. There has not been one game this season imo where you can say he looked outstanding. Sometimes, he is literally running around like a headless chicken. Him being a B2B works in a counter attacking team as someone stated but having him as B2B midfielder in a 4-3-3 for a possession based team is not making sense. He does not have enough technical qualities too. Jorginho is obviously the heartbeat for Sarri's system and because of Kante' rep you feel almost that Sarri has almost no choice to play him but he has to work around this because game by game Kante is contributing but not doing anything special. When we had him in DM, I am thinking we have the best DM in the world. When I see him now, I don't know what to say. I just feel he is a player there to chase the ball down but don't expect much from him. MOTD analyzed Spurs third goal yesterday when Jorginho was chasing Son and Kante was basically in the no.10 position. He should have been where Jorginho was and he probably recovers that ball from Son but he is staying in an attacking position which is frustrating as he is not an attacking player. 

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49 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

How can you miss something that has never happened?

His best position is as a central midfielder with a focus on defending (in particular ball recovery/chasing back). That can easily be interpreted as a defensive midfielder, he is not known for his attacking attributes which is what he is currently being asked to, so yes I miss watching him in his old position.

 

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42 minutes ago, Nickcook26 said:

His best position is as a central midfielder with a focus on defending (in particular ball recovery/chasing back). That can easily be interpreted as a defensive midfielder, he is not known for his attacking attributes which is what he is currently being asked to, so yes I miss watching him in his old position.

 

His current role in the team is ball recovery. There are the added attacking expectations, but he is still expected to do his usual work in regaining the ball, just further up the pitch.

Kante's worst games have even come when France expect him to stay disciplined as a defensive mid. 

Kante always has been, and always will be a box to box. 

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

His current role in the team is ball recovery. There are the added attacking expectations, but he is still expected to do his usual work in regaining the ball, just further up the pitch.

Kante's worst games have even come when France expect him to stay disciplined as a defensive mid. 

Kante always has been, and always will be a box to box. 

But it’s not working.
Previous three seasons he’s always been top in tackles and interceptions. So far this season he’s in 40th place.
This season he isn’t giving us more defensively than for example Bernardo Silva who plays in a similar position for City and the difference offensively is obviously massive.

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6 minutes ago, Sindre said:

But it’s not working.
Previous three seasons he’s always been top in tackles and interceptions. So far this season he’s in 40th place.
This season he isn’t giving us more defensively than for example Bernardo Silva who plays in a similar position for City and the difference offensively is obviously massive.

He's in 40th place because we keep the ball for 80% of the time most games. We aren't playing a defensive game and relying on counter attacks anymore, of course he's going to make less tackles and interceptions. 

Take him out the team and then i'd like to see all you lot quickly back step on Kante's importance. 

Not a single person in the top 10 for interceptions or tackles plays for a top team, should tell you everything you need to know. Lets actually aspire to control games and not make loads of tackles.

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46 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

He's in 40th place because we keep the ball for 80% of the time most games. We aren't playing a defensive game and relying on counter attacks anymore, of course he's going to make less tackles and interceptions. 

Take him out the team and then i'd like to see all you lot quickly back step on Kante's importance. 

Not a single person in the top 10 for interceptions or tackles plays for a top team, should tell you everything you need to know. Lets actually aspire to control games and not make loads of tackles.

Except Kante in previous seasons then?
He was more or less then only player from a top side in the top 10 then, and he was number 1.

He’s an exceptional ballwinner, the best player in the world at just that but right now he is being completely handicapped by his role.
He’s not even in the middle of the park anymore but messing around on the flank covering overlapping leftbacks and wingers most of the time.

It makes no sense.

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16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Except Kante in previous seasons then?
He was more or less then only player from a top side in the top 10 then, and he was number 1.

He’s an exceptional ballwinner, the best player in the world at just that but right now he is being completely handicapped by his role.
He’s not even in the middle of the park anymore but messing around on the flank covering overlapping leftbacks and wingers most of the time.

It makes no sense.

Kante in previous seasons because of our coaches methods. The only way a player picks up numbers like that is if they are playing under a Mourinho-type manager. Really don't understand why anyone would want that. Lose the ball and chase it around instead of holding onto it and dominating the game?

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His defensive stats are going down. I agree that Kante can't lead and control the game like Jorginho does, but Kante's current position isn't really impressing me and I'm pretty sure Kante feels that by himself.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kante and Jorginho playing in the same line and Jorginho will be the one who will go forward when he sends the ball to the attackers. Kante will always stay and cover the players on the pitch.

Against Spurs, when Kante went more back and was playing in the central. You could feel his defensive work, he won tackles, balls and because of him, we started a counter attack.

Just like City, they have De Bruyne or Silva who has control over the game and got Fernadinho to cover the team. We have the same quality, we just need more time to work with Sarri and I believe we will be watching a different team in the second round, especially against Spurs at home.

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35 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

Just like City, they have De Bruyne or Silva who has control over the game and got Fernadinho to cover the team. We have the same quality, we just need more time to work with Sarri and I believe we will be watching a different team in the second round, especially against Spurs at home.

Except KDB and Silva are light years ahead of Jorginho and Kante when it comes to creativity and attacking play. They can both score goals and create goalsoring opportunities for others, while Kante and Jorginho aren't known for either. 

If we were to persevere with both Kante and Jorginho in the middle, the third midfielder will have to be an absolute beast with Fabregas like passing and Lampard like scoring prowess to make up for the shortcomings in the attacking department of the other two. Kovacic from the looks of it scores once every couple of seasons. Barkley is probably the better fit because he can do all those things but whether he can actually do them consistently well at the top level club is still a big question mark.

Edited by abramovich

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41 minutes ago, IliyaKrostin said:

His defensive stats are going down. I agree that Kante can't lead and control the game like Jorginho does, but Kante's current position isn't really impressing me and I'm pretty sure Kante feels that by himself.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kante and Jorginho playing in the same line and Jorginho will be the one who will go forward when he sends the ball to the attackers. Kante will always stay and cover the players on the pitch.

Against Spurs, when Kante went more back and was playing in the central. You could feel his defensive work, he won tackles, balls and because of him, we started a counter attack.

Just like City, they have De Bruyne or Silva who has control over the game and got Fernadinho to cover the team. We have the same quality, we just need more time to work with Sarri and I believe we will be watching a different team in the second round, especially against Spurs at home.

Same quality :laugh2:

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