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Scott Harris

Marcos Alonso

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11 minutes ago, Jackbuchanan said:

Superstar this guy, though I still reckon he would be better utilised further forward. He has all the skills you would want in an attacking midfielder. Bale progressed from that position, yes Bale is faster but Alonso has a lot of the other skills that got Bale to where he is now. I wouldnt mind seeing how he would get on in the Willian/Pedro position.

Leave him where he is and just make sure to get the midfield and left center back to cover his arse when he roams forward.

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Gullit made some notable comments on MOTD which I agree with. 

Alonso as clutch as he is does have flaws. 

- Rarely overlaps on the wing so everything gets congested with no width to our play

- Never takes players on or go past them. Always cuts inside. 

Look at Liverpool with Robertson or Mendy with City. Athletic fullbacks who make runs in behind the opposition defence instead of just playing the ball in front of them which is what Newcastle wanted and why we struggled.  

It's all nice and good when he gets the winner and his eye for a goal is special but when things dont go well you can see where one of the problems lie: too 1-dimensional and no penetration to the play like we saw vs Newcastle for the majority of the game. 

Azpi is the same but in Napoli Sarri had the RB play more defensive and the LB play in more advanced positions so Azpi can be excused. 

 

Edited by zes

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13 minutes ago, zes said:

Gullit made some notable comments on MOTD which I agree with. 

Alonso as clutch as he is does have flaws. 

- Rarely overlaps on the wing so everything gets congested with no width to our play

- Never takes players on or go past them. Always cuts inside. 

Look at Liverpool with Robertson or Mendy with City. Athletic fullbacks who make runs in behind the opposition defence instead of just playing in front of them which is what Newcastle wanted and why we struggled.  

It's all nice and good when he gets the winner and his eye for a goal is special but when things dont go well you can see where one of the problems lie: too 1-dimensional and no penetration to the play like we saw vs Newcastle for the majority of the game. 

Azpi is the same but in Napoli Sarri had the RB play more defensive and the LB play in more advanced positions so Azpi can be excused. 

 

Well that just isn't true a perfect example of him doing this is the first goal against Arsenal.

He seems to have understood what space to run into more than any other player so far his off the ball movement has made us at least 3 goals so far (2 penalties and the one above) 

If the winger is occupying the full back he has very intelligent exposed either the space between the FB and CB or the space out wide. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45317675

The pitch map in the above is not one of a player not offering width.

The issue highlighted is more his lack of physicality 
'Alonso is more like a midfielder - very elegant on the ball, clever with how he uses space and angles - but he does not have the pace to unsettle a defence.'

Which if he carries on with his intelligent movement isn't an issue offensively.

The punditry piece seemed to be more aimed at Dave who was in the first half at least hesitant to burst into the space Alonso doesn't have this issue.

image.gif

 

 

Edited by PedroMendez

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1 hour ago, PedroMendez said:

 

Well that just isn't true a perfect example of him doing this is the first goal against Arsenal.

He seems to have understood what space to run into more than any other player so far his off the ball movement has made us at least 3 goals so far (2 penalties and the one above) 

If the winger is occupying the full back he has very intelligent exposed either the space between the FB and CB or the space out wide. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45317675

The pitch map in the above is not one of a player not offering width.

The issue highlighted is more his lack of physicality 
'Alonso is more like a midfielder - very elegant on the ball, clever with how he uses space and angles - but he does not have the pace to unsettle a defence.'

Which if he carries on with his intelligent movement isn't an issue offensively.

The punditry piece seemed to be more aimed at Dave who was in the first half at least hesitant to burst into the space Alonso doesn't have this issue.

image.gif

 

 

I did not say he never overlaps. I said he rarely does. Robertson and Mendy do it every game. 

I saw the match for myself and saw how congested our play was and struggled to break down Newcastle. If he can add more to his game along with his goal scoring Alonso would be world class. 

Edited by zes

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6 hours ago, zes said:

I did not say he never overlaps. I said he rarely does. Robertson and Mendy do it every game. 

I saw the match for myself and saw how congested our play was and struggled to break down Newcastle. If he can add more to his game along with his goal scoring Alonso would be world class. 

overlapping full backs does nothing against such a compact and deep defence, the whole point if it is for the winter to pull the defending full back up,  allowing space in behind.  That doesn't happen against a defense set up like that. Just because Liverpool and city use their full backs like that doesn't mean everyone has to. Alonso gets into the box loads more than pretty much any other full back,  he constantly finds space with supebly timed runs. 

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13 hours ago, zes said:

Gullit made some notable comments on MOTD which I agree with. 

Alonso as clutch as he is does have flaws. 

- Rarely overlaps on the wing so everything gets congested with no width to our play

- Never takes players on or go past them. Always cuts inside. 

Look at Liverpool with Robertson or Mendy with City. Athletic fullbacks who make runs in behind the opposition defence instead of just playing the ball in front of them which is what Newcastle wanted and why we struggled.  

It's all nice and good when he gets the winner and his eye for a goal is special but when things dont go well you can see where one of the problems lie: too 1-dimensional and no penetration to the play like we saw vs Newcastle for the majority of the game. 

Azpi is the same but in Napoli Sarri had the RB play more defensive and the LB play in more advanced positions so Azpi can be excused. 

 

I think that's very inaccurate, Alonso goes in on the overlap a lot more than Azpilicueta does. And I've seen him take plenty of players on, he has to, he doesn't have the pace to go past them, his skill is very underrated. 

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Alonso is getting the results...and he’s very versatile, he does indeed play at times as if he’s an attacking midfielder, and he’s full of attacking talent, and because of this, I agree with leaving him where he is, but making sure the back is covered when he makes a forward push. Happy he’s on the team, don’t want him going anywhere. 

Edited by Leo Atrox

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4 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Problem with Alonso is the same as Ivanovic under Mourinho. A great attacking threat who doesn't have the pace to get back and defend. 

We found with Ivanovic that the former didn't outweigh the latter so let's hope it doesn't come to that with Alonso.

It worked for many seasons before that Mourinho meltdown year though 

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No it really didn't, Ivanovic was targeted from 2013 onwards. Even so, Ivanovic remained an actually excellent defender, but it became increasingly clear that he couldn't do both attack and defence. 

Alonso is ruthlessly effective in attack and having Jorginho and Hazard in this form  makes that doubly so but I think the key difference between him and Ivanovic is that currently there are more glaring issues with our defence (Luiz), whereas Ivanovic was the main issue. 

My hope is that having Kante in a "free" role (as opposed to sitting above the defence) will allow him to cover our fullbacks more effectively once he adjusts to the tactical changes.

Edited by SydneyChelsea

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7 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

No it really didn't, Ivanovic was targeted from 2013 onwards. Even so, Ivanovic remained an actually excellent defender, but it became increasingly clear that he couldn't do both attack and defence. 

Alonso is ruthlessly effective in attack and having Jorginho and Hazard in this form  makes that doubly so but I think the key difference between him and Ivanovic is that currently there are more glaring issues with our defence (Luiz), whereas Ivanovic was the main issue. 

My hope is that having Kante in a "free" role (as opposed to sitting above the defence) will allow him to cover our fullbacks more effectively once he adjusts to the tactical changes.

Ivanovic in 2010-2011 was our best player, Cech won it but Ivanovic deserved it for me. He was the best defensive fullback in the world, solid as a f**king rock.

I remember when Luis Nani was set to be the next Ronaldo, one game against Ivan at the bridge and Nani wasn't the same again, Ivanovic took his soul. Attacking Ivan started to come under Mourinho and somehow he became this great attacking fullback who was originally a centreback and a very defensive fullback. 

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7 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Problem with Alonso is the same as Ivanovic under Mourinho. A great attacking threat who doesn't have the pace to get back and defend. 

We found with Ivanovic that the former didn't outweigh the latter so let's hope it doesn't come to that with Alonso.

Don't see that necessarily as a problem for Alonso as long as a CM takes up the defensive position while Alonso is charging forward. It's about player intelligence for me. I guess that CM would be Kovacic.

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My honest opinion is as a defender he isn’t quite good enough for Chelsea and he certainly isn’t a shadow of Ashley however he offers so much going forward, his free kicks, his mentality, there is so much to like even someone like me who is more a fan of defending football than perhaps anyone you’ll meet, just can’t help but appreciate what a top attacking threat and Chelsea man he has become. 

Plus when you consider the best left back in the world can barely defend, the right midfield cover can make it work 

Edited by WalterWhiteCFC

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9 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Problem with Alonso is the same as Ivanovic under Mourinho. A great attacking threat who doesn't have the pace to get back and defend. 

We found with Ivanovic that the former didn't outweigh the latter so let's hope it doesn't come to that with Alonso.

 

This. Feels like Ivanovic on steroids 

 

I'd look to drop Luiz at some point though instead 

 

Edited by MANoWAR

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The Gullit comments about the fullbacks overlapping is an over simplification in my opinion. 

Okay, Dave or Alonso overlaps gets in on the byline... Then what? 

There's still going to be 6 or so Newcaslte players in and around the area so good luck picking anyone out with a cross. 

Throwing endless crosses into the box would probably have played into Newcastle's plans more because they would be able to clear the ball more often giving Rondon more chances to run at Rudiger and Luiz. 

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I don't think it is as simple as 'Alonso doesn't have what it takes to come back and defend'. For me this is a team effort. If Alonso bombs down the flank I think a midfielder like Kovacic needs to see this and cover if needed. When a team comes fluid these things happen without hesitation through repetition. 

Alonso isn't the pacy like Walker or Marcelo but he wins 90% of headers, he makes intelligent runs inside the box and he can pass pretty well. On top of that he is probably one of our best shooters of the ball. 

Everyone can see his limitations as a defender which can be helped through teamwork. 

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4 hours ago, evissy said:

I don't think it is as simple as 'Alonso doesn't have what it takes to come back and defend'. For me this is a team effort. If Alonso bombs down the flank I think a midfielder like Kovacic needs to see this and cover if needed. When a team comes fluid these things happen without hesitation through repetition. 

Alonso isn't the pacy like Walker or Marcelo but he wins 90% of headers, he makes intelligent runs inside the box and he can pass pretty well. On top of that he is probably one of our best shooters of the ball. 

Everyone can see his limitations as a defender which can be helped through teamwork. 

I didn't get the abuse Ivanovic used to receive until Mourinho's 3rd season.

We are bound to leak goals in that area if our fullback is going higher up the field. As long as that Fullback is getting goals and assists and causing problems then for me it's not a big issue. And with Ivanovic, this was the case, but whenever we would concede a goal Ivanovic was the scapegoat, it's a bit similar with Alonso except Alonso hasn't shown as many defensive vulnerabilities than Ivanovic had under Mourinho. 

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the crazy thing is that I can watch a footie show here in the States & all they talk about how Real Madrid are close to terms in signing Marcos Alonso. Then I come here & there are people saying he is straight shit. Fuck it. I think I am going to grab a beer an think this one over. Yes, it's only noontime here in California but I need to really think this through of who to believe or who not believe about Marcos Alonso :sadwalk:

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7 hours ago, evissy said:

I don't think it is as simple as 'Alonso doesn't have what it takes to come back and defend'. For me this is a team effort. If Alonso bombs down the flank I think a midfielder like Kovacic needs to see this and cover if needed. When a team comes fluid these things happen without hesitation through repetition. 

Alonso isn't the pacy like Walker or Marcelo but he wins 90% of headers, he makes intelligent runs inside the box and he can pass pretty well. On top of that he is probably one of our best shooters of the ball. 

Everyone can see his limitations as a defender which can be helped through teamwork. 

You nailed it. Teamwork to cover his weaknesses is a necessary "sacrifice", because what Alonso brings to the game from an offensive perspective more than makes up for his weaknesses. His runs and shooting are a major asset. 

Good Alonso refresher:

 

Edited by Leo Atrox

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8 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

The Gullit comments about the fullbacks overlapping is an over simplification in my opinion. 

Okay, Dave or Alonso overlaps gets in on the byline... Then what? 

There's still going to be 6 or so Newcaslte players in and around the area so good luck picking anyone out with a cross. 

Throwing endless crosses into the box would probably have played into Newcastle's plans more because they would be able to clear the ball more often giving Rondon more chances to run at Rudiger and Luiz. 

Cutbacks...that’s how city score when a team sits in, runners forward from midfield’ pings around can leave a tap in or even like alonsos vs Newcastle, worst case you win corners and create chances and a bit of panic. 

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