Virgil Van Dijk

[Chelsbear]

Just now, JJP said:

I think he's good enough to replace Cahill, but for 60m I really dont think we need to spend that much on him when we can spend that money in other areas. 

But Cahills figures are superior to VVD's and the latter is coming back from a bad injury. 

Why would we mess about with a title winning defence who seem well equipped? Cahill isn't world class but he's our vice captain and he contributes a hell of a lot to our season. VVD isn't a better defender for me, what's he done? 

We also have a highly rated defender from Germany coming back who's been one of the best rated CB's in the Bundusliga. It's a position we are strong in and it would be daft spending that money on it IMO.

[Chelsbear]

2 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Disagree. I think he's quality and can still improve a lot under Conte. I used to be opposed to the idea but I've come around to it, considering Cahill will be 32 next season and Luiz is already 30. VVD is 25. It wouldn't hurt to have him now and have ready replacements for when Cahill and Luiz decline. Especially Cahill whom I think wouldn't have the longevity Terry has had. I think Cahill will be done by 33/34 tbh.

All about opinions but I don't think he's anything special. We had a boy coming back who's a better defender IMO and costs nothing. Let Conte develop him....

[JJP]

1 minute ago, Chelsbear said:

But Cahills figures are superior to VVD's and the latter is coming back from a bad injury. 

Why would we mess about with a title winning defence who seem well equipped? Cahill isn't world class but he's our vice captain and he contributes a hell of a lot to our season. VVD isn't a better defender for me, what's he done? 

We also have a highly rated defender from Germany coming back who's been one of the best rated CB's in the Bundusliga. It's a position we are strong in and it would be daft spending that money on it IMO.

 

Definitely agree with that, I've said from the beginning Id much rather have Christensen come back into the team than us splashing 60m on VVD

[Barrettinator]

2 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

All about opinions but I don't think he's anything special. We had a boy coming back who's a better defender IMO and costs nothing. Let Conte develop him....

It's actually possible to have both VVD and Christensen in the team although Zouma would have to be the casualty, which is why I came around to the idea of VVD.

[Chelsbear]

1 minute ago, Barrettinator said:

It's actually possible to have both VVD and Christensen in the team although Zouma would have to be the casualty, which is why I came around to the idea of VVD.

Be a waste of funds we can spend elsewhere.

Cahill, Luiz, Dave, Christensen and   Ake with Zouma going out on loan if need be is strong enough. 

We simply don't require to spend next season in the CB area with Christensen coming back. We have the likes of Ake and Zouma to beef the number up to compliment our starting players. 

I'd much rather strengthen midfield and attack where we are short in quality and numbers.

[STATS]

7 hours ago, JJP said:

He hasnt played a game in several months, its too much of a gamble to spend this much money on him. 

 

I mean look at what happened to Zouma after his injury

You make it sound as if he is finished. He has showed signs of rustiness but he just needs regular football. I see your point though, but both players have age on their side. Zouma will still develop into a top defender imo.

[Barrettinator]

13 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

But Cahills figures are superior to VVD's and the latter is coming back from a bad injury. 

Why would we mess about with a title winning defence who seem well equipped? Cahill isn't world class but he's our vice captain and he contributes a hell of a lot to our season. VVD isn't a better defender for me, what's he done? 

We also have a highly rated defender from Germany coming back who's been one of the best rated CB's in the Bundusliga. It's a position we are strong in and it would be daft spending that money on it IMO.

That's actually not correct.

VVD's numbers were consistently superior up until his injury and I have no doubt they would have stayed superior had he played the entire season.

[JJP]

6 minutes ago, STATS said:

You make it sound as if he is finished. He has showed signs of rustiness but he just needs regular football. I see your point though, but both players have age on their side. Zouma will still develop into a top defender imo.

Yeah i agree, we were all saying how he's practically going to be a guaranteed starting CB this season but the injury has really messed him up. I hope he comes back strong as ever though, because he has massive potential 

[the special one]

VVD
29 goals, 12 assists in 251 appearances (goal every 8.66 games, assist every 20.92 games) - age 25 

Cahill
44 goals, 14 assists in 460 appearances (goal every 10.45 games, assist every 32.85 games) - age 31

I'll say this much, I wouldn't be surprised if whoever signs VVD finish top 2 next season.

Edited May 18, 2017 by the special one

[PedroMendez]

54 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

That's actually not correct.

VVD's numbers were consistently superior up until his injury and I have no doubt they would have stayed superior had he played the entire season.

He is in a predominantly 4 man defence in a team that will have to do a lot more defending of course his stats will look better. HE also doesn't have Kante in front of him stealing all of his work.

 

[Barrettinator]

7 minutes ago, PedroMendez said:

He is in a predominantly 4 man defence in a team that will have to do a lot more defending of course his stats will look better. HE also doesn't have Kante in front of him stealing all of his work.

 

"Stealing"? That's one way to look at it, I guess. I prefer to see it as "protecting". Neither Luiz nor Cahill would look as good as they have without this system (and Kante).

Edited May 18, 2017 by Barrettinator

[g3.7]

if conte wants him, he's worth whatever we would have to pay.

[Xfaxtor]

12 hours ago, JJP said:

Before the injury he was out best CB, this season in all the games he's been a part of, he hasn't done anything impressive. Especially the last game against Watford he was really poor. And that is because of injury combined with his lack of play time

I agree his pace and athletecism was a welcome addition at the time, especially because Ivan, Cahill and Terry were taken advantage of week after week by faster quicker players. His success at the time had more to do with our scheme. Mourinho  didnt want our defenders to see a lot of the ball and we were defending deep which means poor positioning is less of a factor. Under Conte the defenders see more of the ball and we defend higher up the pitch, Zouma is dreadfull on the ball and still fairly poor positioning which is why he struggles. Also not playing football at a high level for a year comes into play. Physically hes fully recovered, hes just a poor fit for Contes three man defense.

[didierforever]

On 5/4/2017 at 16:46, DonAntonio said:

 

manager has identified a ball playing CB a top priority, according to what a have been hearing from the club, its crutial to our system working

Have you seen Ake and Andreas play?

[enigma]

Yeah don't see the hype with vvd. What makes him better than christensen? 

[DonAntonio]

4 hours ago, didierforever said:

Have you seen Ake and Andreas play?

No never mate, tell me more.....

[DonAntonio]

15 hours ago, PedroMendez said:

He is in a predominantly 4 man defence in a team that will have to do a lot more defending of course his stats will look better. HE also doesn't have Kante in front of him stealing all of his work.

 

When Garry didnt have kante in front of his "stealing all of his work" we finished 10th...

[didierforever]

9 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

No never mate, tell me more.....

I can surely understand then, why you would want VVD instead of Ake/Christensen.

[Xfaxtor]

34 minutes ago, didierforever said:

I can surely understand then, why you would want VVD instead of Ake/Christensen.

Because he is a superior player

[DonAntonio]

34 minutes ago, didierforever said:

I can surely understand then, why you would want VVD instead of Ake/Christensen.

I really need to start watching Chelsea games, not like I haven't missed one in 10 years and also watch gladbach to track Christensen and hazard as mentioned on another thread, that would make me somewhat qualified to have an informed opinion, but yea you're right ake better than VVD hence all the intrest from top clubs  for one and not the other...I'm aware that ake and Christensen are ball players but the rest of their game isn't nearly good enough to start for Chelsea in big games week in week out, ake got exposed against Watford, not Barca, Watford, and Christensen had a mediocre season in Germany if I watched his games id have known that, have you watched his games? Other than the CL? He isn't good enough and that's why he won't start next season, nor ake, they both need time and experience and that's why we are looking for a CB that is ready to start, because we are an elite club that need Instant success not waiting for players to blossom, doesn't work like that in top tier football 2017. 

[the special one]

1 hour ago, enigma said:

Yeah don't see the hype with vvd. What makes him better than christensen? 

Christensen isn't a left sided CB, van Dijk is? As someone said yesterday (Barrettinator?) there's a scenario where we could have both next season...

                      Azpi/Christensen - Luiz/Ake/De Rossi?? - van Dijk??/Cahill/Ake

Fwiw van Dijk reminds me of Chiellini, and his goal scoring record suggests we'd be mugs not to sign him. If we need to sell Ake so be it imho.

Edited May 19, 2017 by the special one

[didierforever]

28 minutes ago, Xfaxtor said:

Because he is a superior player

you forgot to add, AT THIS MOMENT.

Never mind that he is 25 (going to be 26 in a few months), Compared to a 21 year old Andreas who is already an accomplished CB in a CL team. Sorry, but choosing a short term gain over a massive long term profit is well....

As for @DonAntonio 's. So andreas is not attracting interests from top clubs? Last time I heard, Barca (the best bloody team on the planet) were looking to get him. Not chelsea/city, but Barca. By your logic, Hazard would have been poorer than Mahrez. Fortunately one bad season for a club does not decide a player's potential. Just like Monchengladbach's pathetic away form (and yes, I do watch them a bit) cant really be pinned on Andreas, nor should it. Andreas has a much higher potential than VVD, who at the age of 20 was where exactly? As for Ake, he is a solid back-up player (5th/6th CB). We already have 3 (Azpi-DL-GC) and the 4th as Andreas. So unless your obsession with the latest flavour of the month is to bring him, spend 50mil pounds and play him on the bench/reserves, then I have not much to say. 

As for the last comment, we already have players in their peak. What we can do is LEARN from our mistakes in the past, and stop looking at instant gratification. What that has done is, make us a good team, not a great team (aka Barca, RM, Bayern, Juve). 3 of those 4 need Instant Success too, but do give a chance for "players to blossom", and the other one is RM, whose status is unparalleled.

[the special one]

33 minutes ago, didierforever said:

 

As for the last comment, we already have players in their peak. What we can do is LEARN from our mistakes in the past, and stop looking at instant gratification. What that has done is, make us a good team, not a great team (aka Barca, RM, Bayern, Juve). 3 of those 4 need Instant Success too, but do give a chance for "players to blossom", and the other one is RM, whose status is unparalleled.

Real Madrid can give a chance to youth products because they (and Barca) are in a different league to their opposition. In a league that 5 teams can potentially win you need the best players/squad or settle for mediocrity (look at Arsenal with Iwobi, Coquelin, Walcott, and United with Phil Jones, Smalling, Lingard, Depay etc)

United stayed at the top under Fergie because they ruthlessly replaced their players with the next flavour of the month (and I'd argue we didn't win as many titles as we could have done over the past 15 years because we failed to do the same).

van Dijk is our opportunity to be ruthless.

Edited May 19, 2017 by the special one

[didierforever]

10 minutes ago, the special one said:

Real Madrid can give a chance to youth products because they (and Barca) are in a different league to their opposition. In a league that 5 teams can potentially you need the best players/squad, or settle for mediocrity (look at Arsenal with Iwobi, Coquelin, Walcott etc)

Coq/Iwobi are not world class talents. Coq was playing at Charlton Athletic. Also he is Arsenal ONLY DM (I dont think I can call XHaka, Ramsey, Cazorla a DM). Here we are talking about a 3rd/4th CB spot and competing with GC and DL for a spot. 

What about Kane? Dier? Alli? Arsenal is all that is wrong about football. Not in terms of youth integration, but club philosophy, manager, management, wage structure, etc etc. 

Spurs is the 2nd best team in the league and boasts of Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli, Kane. Young/Youth players trusted and given a chance. I am not asking Andreas/Ake to be given a 1st team spot at the start of the season. But considering their potentials, they should be given a chance at the club to "blossom" and reach their potential rather than buying the current flavour of the month.

Edited May 19, 2017 by didierforever

[the special one]

3 minutes ago, didierforever said:

Spurs is the 2nd best team in the league and boasts of Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli, Kane. Young/Youth players trusted and given a chance. I am not asking Andreas/Ake to be given a 1st team spot at the start of the season. But considering their potentials, they should be given a chance at the club rather than buying the current flavour of the month.

Spurs were 2nd best, but they achieved f**k all (including the cup competitions). We need 2 of the best players we can possibly to get to give ourselves the best chance possible of being successful next season.

Edited May 19, 2017 by the special one