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Tiémoué Bakayoko

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2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

This is a tired point of view that was rehashed over and over 2 summers ago as well as last summer. In fact we've only had 2 good summer windows in the past 7 years (Cesc + Costa, Hazard) if I'm not mistaken.

"Oh there's still one month before the season starts" changes into "oh there's still a week left" and "the transfer window doesn't close until August 31st, there's still time". It's an old and tired point now.

Not to mention we're missing the opportunity of letting the new signings go on pre-season with the rest of the team and get used to our system in time for the start of the season so we can hit the ground running. But ah it's all just impatient fans, I guess.

If the situation does change in the next month i'll be joining you and the others that are complaining about the window. With the current history of our transfer windows i understand that people is worried that history will repeat itself, however i think we shouldn't judge the window prematurly. Even if the board have done a sh*t job before, they should always be given the benefit of doubt in the start of each window. And yes, the earlier the better for new signings but i think they should be given towards the end of July to prove themself and after that people kan complain if they aren't happy. But to judge them after a week and call this a bad window is for me impossible to understand.

And even though last summer window turned out OK, I am not happy with the way things went down. Signing players on the last day is too late. But complaining and judging after a week? Just don't get it.

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10 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Some good news finally. Smells like they felt like fast tracking to make up for yesterday.

Matt Law has got so many of his stories wrong this season.

Begining to think that he is simply a type of PR for the club. Fans are angry, make him put in a tweet saying something good. 

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As @dkwsaid, "Anybody claiming someone in twitter us a definite credible source needs to get a grip on reality".

Twitter is all about the "look-at-me, I know things that you don't" accumulation of followers.  So the one you fancy might have guessed right in the past.  That's not saying that he knew, just that he is a good guesser. The ones he got wrong have probably been deleted to make his twitline look good.

My point is still that no-one outside of the clubs, agents and players involved actually KNOWS anything, so it is all guesswork, whether they twitter it or publish it in the Mail. 

We can all go back through threads in here and find dead-cert, nailed on information about things that were going to happen from "credible" sources that turned out to be bollocks.  

It's all just fumbling round in the dark, mate,and I just find it wrong that people (and I'm not just getting at you alone, by any means) start getting down on the club with no concrete details about what is or isn't happening.

 

(as for Lukaku, I never wanted him back anyway, so don't care if the Mancs have got him)

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Pretty much confirmed then, just wondering what the fee for him is going to be? I think i'd be happy with anything under £40m

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1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

As @dkwsaid, "Anybody claiming someone in twitter us a definite credible source needs to get a grip on reality".

Twitter is all about the "look-at-me, I know things that you don't" accumulation of followers.  So the one you fancy might have guessed right in the past.  That's not saying that he knew, just that he is a good guesser. The ones he got wrong have probably been deleted to make his twitline look good.

My point is still that no-one outside of the clubs, agents and players involved actually KNOWS anything, so it is all guesswork, whether they twitter it or publish it in the Mail. 

We can all go back through threads in here and find dead-cert, nailed on information about things that were going to happen from "credible" sources that turned out to be bollocks.  

It's all just fumbling round in the dark, mate,and I just find it wrong that people (and I'm not just getting at you alone, by any means) start getting down on the club with no concrete details about what is or isn't happening.

 

(as for Lukaku, I never wanted him back anyway, so don't care if the Mancs have got him)

Except if they delete posts, it never really goes away. People always screenshot their tweets. It will definitely come back to bite.

You also need to remember that during transfers, the information is not limited to the Chelsea end. In the case of Boufasi, he gets his information from France. So we have no control over what leaks on that end.

I know your first instinct is to disregard journos on Twitter because it's "Twitter" but it doesn't change the fact that they're still passing information they end up writing in the papers. It's down to you to know who's credible and who isn't. I wouldn't take anything any journo working for The Sun or The Daily Star says seriously for example. 

When you say "no one outside the clubs, agents and players involved actually knows anything", where do you think the info is coming from? Agents leak to the press all the time. Clubs and even players also leak to the press all the time. They're part of the leak of information, especially during transfer season. As an example, Marca is generally seen as a mouthpiece paper for Real Madrid....and that's because Madrid pass info to them all the time. Same thing with AS for Barca, Tuttosport for Juve, etc. 

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1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

As @dkwsaid, "Anybody claiming someone in twitter us a definite credible source needs to get a grip on reality".

Twitter is all about the "look-at-me, I know things that you don't" accumulation of followers.  So the one you fancy might have guessed right in the past.  That's not saying that he knew, just that he is a good guesser. The ones he got wrong have probably been deleted to make his twitline look good.

My point is still that no-one outside of the clubs, agents and players involved actually KNOWS anything, so it is all guesswork, whether they twitter it or publish it in the Mail. 

We can all go back through threads in here and find dead-cert, nailed on information about things that were going to happen from "credible" sources that turned out to be bollocks.  

It's all just fumbling round in the dark, mate,and I just find it wrong that people (and I'm not just getting at you alone, by any means) start getting down on the club with no concrete details about what is or isn't happening.

 

(as for Lukaku, I never wanted him back anyway, so don't care if the Mancs have got him)

When i had twitter i "only" had 200 followers yet i managed to convince numerous people that Ronaldinho and Gattuso were on the way to Birmingham for a medical at Aston Villa (this was 2011). I only got caught out because the tweet found it's way to a close friend of Randy Lerner, to which point i confessed it was all bolax:laugh2:

Edited by Argo

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The ones that make me laugh is every time there's a tournament draw and someone on Twitter apparently knew the draw before it was done, showing an old tweet as evidence. What they do is tweet pretty much every possible draw then delete the wrong ones :laugh2:. Idiots still believe it.

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1 hour ago, Barrettinator said:

Except if they delete posts, it never really goes away. People always screenshot their tweets. It will definitely come back to bite.

You also need to remember that during transfers, the information is not limited to the Chelsea end. In the case of Boufasi, he gets his information from France. So we have no control over what leaks on that end.

I know your first instinct is to disregard journos on Twitter because it's "Twitter" but it doesn't change the fact that they're still passing information they end up writing in the papers. It's down to you to know who's credible and who isn't. I wouldn't take anything any journo working for The Sun or The Daily Star says seriously for example. 

When you say "no one outside the clubs, agents and players involved actually knows anything", where do you think the info is coming from? Agents leak to the press all the time. Clubs and even players also leak to the press all the time. They're part of the leak of information, especially during transfer season. As an example, Marca is generally seen as a mouthpiece paper for Real Madrid....and that's because Madrid pass info to them all the time. Same thing with AS for Barca, Tuttosport for Juve, etc. 

OK, I understand that you believe these people and trust that they know anything.  When you say "where do you think the info is coming from?" the simple answer is that I don't think ANY information is coming from anywhere.  I think a lot of people are making a lot of guesses, or are simply making a lot of stuff up, on the basis of "if you put enough guesses or bullsh*t out there, sooner or later some of it will turn out to be correct".  Doesn't mean that they know anything, just that one of their guesses has come to fruition.  That applies whether it's twitter or a daily rag or one of a million websites or bloggers across the world.  They make it up, or they make a guess, and hope that everyone forgets when they f**k it up totally.

To be honest, with a bit of diligent research, it would be relatively simple to find a "respected and credible source" posting something that turns out to be total bollocks and easier than finding a credible source who got something right.  That's a single instance.  Try to find one who is consistently correct,  not about Chelsea, necessarily, but consistently correct about anything, and it would be simple to find an equal or greater number of posts that were just  plain wrong.

Part of the trouble with Twitter and lowest common denominator journalism is that there is no incentive to be truthful, nor any comeback for making stuff up.  So, if you want to believe these people, then that's OK, you go ahead and forgive me if I treat them all with a huge degree of cynicism, but try not to abuse the club or the board based solely on those tales.

If it turns out that the transfer window is actually as bad as you fear, then I'll join you in hurling abuse at the board.

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Just now, yorkleyblue said:

OK, I understand that you believe these people and trust that they know anything.  When you say "where do you think the info is coming from?" the simple answer is that I don't think ANY information is coming from anywhere.  I think a lot of people are making a lot of guesses, or are simply making a lot of stuff up, on the basis of "if you put enough guesses or bullsh*t out there, sooner or later some of it will turn out to be correct".  Doesn't mean that they know anything, just that one of their guesses has come to fruition.  That applies whether it's twitter or a daily rag or one of a million websites or bloggers across the world.  They make it up, or they make a guess, and hope that everyone forgets when they f**k it up totally.

To be honest, with a bit of diligent research, it would be relatively simple to find a "respected and credible source" posting something that turns out to be total bollocks and easier than finding a credible source who got something right.  That's a single instance.  Try to find one who is consistently correct,  not about Chelsea, necessarily, but consistently correct about anything, and it would be simple to find an equal or greater number of posts that were just  plain wrong.

Part of the trouble with Twitter and lowest common denominator journalism is that there is no incentive to be truthful, nor any comeback for making stuff up.  So, if you want to believe these people, then that's OK, you go ahead and forgive me if I treat them all with a huge degree of cynicism, but try not to abuse the club or the board based solely on those tales.

If it turns out that the transfer window is actually as bad as you fear, then I'll join you in hurling abuse at the board.

You're basically disregarding anything on Twitter without even bothering to know any of the journos I mentioned and their track record. If Sky or BBC post something first on Twitter before it goes on air does that mean they're just throwing something at the wall to see if it sticks too?

No offense meant to you at all but I think your opinion on this while largely valid is still mixed with ignorance on who to trust on Twitter. Unless they're freelance journos, they still have to write whatever news they break on Twitter on their various publications or take it on air. The only difference between 10 years ago and now is that information moves a lot faster because of social media. Of course idiots will take advantage of it for a few clicks. That's when it's up to you to know who's talking bollocks and who isn't. Those I've mentioned 90% of the time do not (for Boufasi, I can comfortably say 100% of the time, he doesn't). 

It's your choice if you still feel the need to disregard everything on Twitter though. To each his own.

A GREAT window to me is locking down ALL our first choice targets (in all the positions we need) quickly and early so they can join our pre-season tour.

This already isn't a great window but hopefully the board aren't too stupid to make sure it's still a good window.

I've put my faith in the board too many times and got let down so my cynicism is directed at them this time.

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6 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

What exactly, in your opinion, is the reason Bakayoko (and Rudiger) hasn't been confirmed? Are we waiting for another kit launch? There's actually no one else competing for his signature except us. So what's the reason? It's a month to preseason and we've only signed Big Willy. Don't act like fans are being impatient with the same board that f**ked up in the summer of 2010 AND the summer of 2015 after winning titles. They don't seem to have learnt. If you have some great new insight on this, I'd love to hear it.

I can guess at a long answer and a short answer in each case.

With Bakayoko, the long version is that we've seen the rumour about there being a hitch in his medical. The short version is I don't have a clue, and nor do you.

In Rudi's case my guess requiring a longer explanation is based on his comments following the Confederations cup final. Rudi might be holding out in the hope that a club he would prefer to play for comes along. It was the way he said that his future would be known in a few weeks. If a move to Chelsea was in full swing it is unlikely that it would have taken weeks to reach completion from that point. If it's going to take weeks then I suspect something else is going on. The short version is I don't have a clue, and nor do you.

You meanwhile have some guesses of your own. With no information to go on, other than that some rumoured deals have not yet been completed or confirmed, you have guessed what is happening, why you think it is happening and who you think is to blame. No rational person could completely rule out the possibility that you may be right, but I don't believe that you are. In fact, I think your attitude is bordering on the hysterical. Even if the actions and motives you ascribe to the club are accurate, that still does not sustain the conclusions you reach.

The only fact you and I know is that no transfers have been completed. One big thing we do not know however, is what we would do if we did know all of the facts. Would we act any differently to the way the club is doing if we knew all of the reasons for the decisions which are being made? Your attitude suggests that you think you would do things differently. I on the other hand think I have some stuff in common with Roman. Stuff which leads me to believe he is looking at things in much the same way I would. I believe Roman wants the club to have a strong squad. He wants that because a strong squad can support a good team. A good team can win admirers, matches and trophies and I believe that, just like me, Roman wants to win trophies. If therefore he is taking decisions which reduce the chance of building such a squad then he has bloody good reasons for it.

I'm not agreeing that Roman is taking decisions which reduce the chance of building a strong squad, I'm just following your line of thought but reaching a different, I think more logical, conclusion from it.

 

Edited by OhForAGreavsie

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11 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

You're basically disregarding anything on Twitter without even bothering to know any of the journos I mentioned and their track record. If Sky or BBC post something first on Twitter before it goes on air does that mean they're just throwing something at the wall to see if it sticks too?

No offense meant to you at all but I think your opinion on this while largely valid is still mixed with ignorance on who to trust on Twitter. Unless they're freelance journos, they still have to write whatever news they break on Twitter on their various publications or take it on air. The only difference between 10 years ago and now is that information moves a lot faster because of social media. Of course idiots will take advantage of it for a few clicks. That's when it's up to you to know who's talking bollocks and who isn't. Those I've mentioned 90% of the time do not (for Boufasi, I can comfortably say 100% of the time, he doesn't). 

It's your choice if you still feel the need to disregard everything on Twitter though. To each his own.

A GREAT window to me is locking down ALL our first choice targets (in all the positions we need) quickly and early so they can join our pre-season tour.

This already isn't a great window but hopefully the board aren't too stupid to make sure it's still a good window.

I've put my faith in the board too many times and got let down so my cynicism is directed at them this time.

Fair enough, matey. As I said, it's not just twitter, but journalists, tv and radio broadcasters, bloggers and web-sites.  They are all trying to convince us that they are part of the inner circle and know more than the ordinary bloke.  So they lie, or guess or a mixture of both.  Any road up, my jaundiced view of all of these outlets is not limited to CFC matters, or even purely football matters.  They are the same in politics, entertainment, every walk of life where someone can twit about sh*t and try to gain "friends" or followers, because, as we all know, when the zombie apocalypse comes, those with the most followers on twitter will be the rulers of the world.

Edited by yorkleyblue
"evry wlak" indeed

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1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

Fair enough, matey. As I said, it's not just twitter, but journalists, tv and radio broadcasters, bloggers and web-sites.  They are all trying to convince us that they are part of the inner circle and know more than the ordinary bloke.  So they lie, or guess or a mixture of both.  Any road up, my jaundiced view of all of these outlets is not limited to CFC matters, or even purely football matters.  They are the same in politics, entertainment, evry wlak of life where someone can twit about sh*t and try to gain "friends" or followers, because, as we all know, when the zombie apocalypse comes, those with the most followers on twitter will be the rulers of the world.

Basically the crux of my philosophy, main stream media is basically full of c**ts spouting off about anything and everything to try and hoodwink you.

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1 minute ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I can guess at a long answer and a short answer in each case.

With Bakayoko, the long version is that we've seen the rumour about there being a hitch in his medical. The short version is I don't have a clue, and nor do you.

In Rudi's case my guess requiring a longer explanation is that I have a suspicion, based on his comments following the Confederations cup final, that Rudi is holding out in hope that a club he might prefer to play for comes along. It was the way he said that his future would be known in a few weeks. If a move to Chelsea was in full swing it is unlikely that it would have taken weeks to reach completion from that point. The short version is I don't have a clue, and nor do you.

You meanwhile have some guesses of your own. With no information to go on, other than that some rumoured deals have not yet been completed or confirmed, you have guessed what is happening, why you think it is happening and who you think is to blame. A rational person has to concede that you may be right but I don't believe that you are. In fact, I think your attitude is bordering on the hysterical. Even if the actions and motives you ascribe to the club are accurate, that still does not sustain the conclusions you reach.

The only fact you and I know is that no transfers have been completed. One big thing we do not know however, is what we would do if we did know all of the facts. Would we act any differently to the way the club is doing if we knew all of the reasons for the decisions which are being made? Your attitude suggests that you think you would do things differently. I on the other hand think I have some stuff in common with Roman. Stuff which leads me to believe he is looking at things in much the same way I would. I believe Roman wants the club to have a strong squad. He wants that because a strong squad can support a good team. A good team can win admirers, matches and trophies and I believe that, just like me, Roman wants to win trophies. If therefore he is taking decisions which reduce the chance of building such a squad then he has bloody good reasons for it.

 

So you pretty much say I have no clue what I'm talking about because my conclusions are "based on no information" while making your on conclusions based on absolutely no information. How does that work?

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1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

Fair enough, matey. As I said, it's not just twitter, but journalists, tv and radio broadcasters, bloggers and web-sites.  They are all trying to convince us that they are part of the inner circle and know more than the ordinary bloke.  So they lie, or guess or a mixture of both.  Any road up, my jaundiced view of all of these outlets is not limited to CFC matters, or even purely football matters.  They are the same in politics, entertainment, evry wlak of life where someone can twit about sh*t and try to gain "friends" or followers, because, as we all know, when the zombie apocalypse comes, those with the most followers on twitter will be the rulers of the world.

I think it's more prevalent in sports media and entertainment media as they know it has no serious repercussions. But to be fair, I agree with the general idea of what you're saying.

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8 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

So you pretty much say I have no clue what I'm talking about because my conclusions are "based on no information" while making your on conclusions based on absolutely no information. How does that work?

If you wish to be fair you should acknowledge that I said neither of us has anything but guesses and that I think my guesses are different to yours. Different, and I believe, better but guesses all the same.

Edited by OhForAGreavsie

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4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Seen rumours united have dropped their interest in matic and now will look at either dier, which seems unlikely, or to this man. Could be interesting. 

Bullsh*t rumours. He turned United down weeks ago for us and has even said goodbye at Monaco. Far different situation to Lukaku whom we were dragging our feet over right from the start. Bakayoko will be completed soon.

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As much as I love Ray Wilkins, I don't agree with his take on this deal. He criticised us for going after him when we've got Chalobah. I agree our policy with younger players (profitable as it can be) isn't always ideal...but why don't other clubs get the same criticism? Every signing we make now is seen as Chelsea saying "f**k you" to whichever up-and-coming youth player is in the same position. Man Utd has broken the English transfer record twice in successive seasons, yet you don't hear a peep about how one of its younger players will be held back.

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Just now, BellettiBullet said:

As much as I love Ray Wilkins, I don't agree with his take on this deal. He criticised us for going after him when we've got Chalobah. I agree our policy with younger players (profitable as it can be) isn't always ideal...but why don't other clubs get the same criticism? Every signing we make now is seen as Chelsea saying "f**k you" to whichever up-and-coming youth player is in the same position. Man Utd has broken the English transfer record twice in successive seasons, yet you don't hear a peep about how one of its younger players will be held back.

Because United had multiple academy players playing for them for decades and now that those have retired, they have players like Rashford (whatever your opinion on LVG and how Rashford broke into the team, he's still a first teamer right now) and Lingard who are academy boys playing for them. What criticism do they deserve?

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28 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Because United had multiple academy players playing for them for decades and now that those have retired, they have players like Rashford (whatever your opinion on LVG and how Rashford broke into the team, he's still a first teamer right now) and Lingard who are academy boys playing for them. What criticism do they deserve?

Probably very little...but it's getting to the point that every player we sign is somehow bad for our younger players' development. I was just using United as one example because it has spent over £150 million on two players. Not exactly showing leaps of faith in its youth there...which is fine. Each to their own...but here's Chelsea signing for reasonable fees (in today's market anyway) and still we get criticised. I look at our signings as boosting a title-winning squad, rather than disrespecting youth.

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Just now, BellettiBullet said:

Probably very little...but it's getting to the point that every player we sign is somehow bad for our younger players' development. I was just using United as one example because it has spent over £150 million on two players. Not exactly showing leaps of faith in its youth there...which is fine. Each to their own...but here's Chelsea signing for reasonable fees (in today's market anyway) and still we get criticised. I look at our signings as boosting a title-winning squad, rather than disrespecting youth.

We deserve every bit of criticism we've gotten. Last youth player who became a first team player was JT and he's 36 playing at Villa now. Even Madrid have been winning trophies and introducing their youth at the same time. We need to make some effort. Whether the media blow it out of proportion or not, we do deserve criticism for it tbqh.

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Our resident football agent has posted rumours on this in the random section (maybe he missed this thread). Apparently United are in negotiations with his agent offering him higher wages and matic was a smoke screen just like morata was. Lol

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23 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

We deserve every bit of criticism we've gotten. Last youth player who became a first team player was JT and he's 36 playing at Villa now. Even Madrid have been winning trophies and introducing their youth at the same time. We need to make some effort. Whether the media blow it out of proportion or not, we do deserve criticism for it tbqh.

Why? We have one of the most successful academies in Europe. If a young player is going to be THAT good, we play them. They obviously haven't been so didn't make it. Remember when McEachran, Kakuta were going to be the next big thing? I agree it would be nice to see more youth players break through but it could mean a couple of lean years without trophies. That's just not what our mentality is as a club. If the choice is between our current system or going potentially years without the league, I know what I'd prefer. Anyway, we are certainly not the only club to do this...yet we seem to be the only one that comes under fire. That was my point.

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