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Tiémoué Bakayoko


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28 minutes ago, BellettiBullet said:

Why? We have one of the most successful academies in Europe. If a young player is going to be THAT good, we play them. They obviously haven't been so didn't make it. Remember when McEachran, Kakuta were going to be the next big thing? I agree it would be nice to see more youth players break through but it could mean a couple of lean years without trophies. That's just not what our mentality is as a club. If the choice is between our current system or going potentially years without the league, I know what I'd prefer. Anyway, we are certainly not the only club to do this...yet we seem to be the only one that comes under fire. That was my point.

Real Madrid have just won back to back CLs with Casemiro, a youth player, starting in midfield. Not to mention Vasquez and Asensio playing significant roles as well. There's also Carvajal who's been a starter for them during this 3 CLs in 4 years phase at RB. Oh and then there's Morata. 

Sometimes they send the players to other clubs and insert cheap buy back clauses but they still bring them back.

If Real Madrid can do it seamlessly, what's our excuse? Beyond academy players, we've sold the likes of De Bruyne and Lukaku without giving them a chance. We favoured 34 year old Eto'o and 34 year old Drogba over Lukaku ffs. Had nothing to do with him not being good enough especially when he was scoring for fun in the same league at the time. As I said, we deserve a lot of criticism.

I would expect us to try to give Baker a chance alongside our current crop of midfielders and have him replace Matic if we sell Matic but then again this is Chelsea, we might just go out and buy another CM.

We were banned for 2 transfer windows for getting Kakuta and he still didn't get a look in. He's nowhere to be found these days. I just hope Abraham doesn't end up like that.

Doesn't bother me as much as it used to though. I've made peace with the fact that it's just not going to happen at this club with the current structure. If it does happen, it'll be a bonus for me.

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1 hour ago, Barrettinator said:

Because United had multiple academy players playing for them for decades and now that those have retired, they have players like Rashford (whatever your opinion on LVG and how Rashford broke into the team, he's still a first teamer right now) and Lingard who are academy boys playing for them. What criticism do they deserve?

After United's class of 92, i can't think of one memorable name to come from United's academy. What happened with United happens to a club once in a generation and they have been living off it since. It was also a totally different era of the game too. Every club was promoting players from the academy back then. 

Since Roman took us over, we aren't the only ones that haven't had a player break through. Every single team that has won a league title since then has had zero players you can say have broken through the academy and contributed heavily to that team for years to come. Can you name any United academy players that have broken through and contributed heavily to their success since 2005 ? I can't think of one player. They have tried out a few youngsters, but where are they now ? playing in the Championship or for relegation threatened teams. Remember Macheda ? Cleverley ? Januzaj ? where are they now ?

You bring up Lingard and Rashford. This is a United team who are finishing outside of the top 4. I highly doubt either of them would feature heavily for them if they were going for the title. Lingard is sh*t, ask most United fans what they think of him and they will tell you the same. Rashford had a poor season last season and it was definitely a backwards step for him. He couldn't get a game for a while and when Ibrahimovic got injured, he didn't exactly do much. Now that Lukaku has joined United, that has pushed Rashford back again. 

We get unfair criticism with our youngsters. Every team that has competed for league titles since 2005 has been in the same position as us.

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1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

After United's class of 92, i can't think of one memorable name to come from United's academy. What happened with United happens to a club once in a generation and they have been living off it since. It was also a totally different era of the game too. Every club was promoting players from the academy back then. 

Since Roman took us over, we aren't the only ones that haven't had a player break through. Every single team that has won a league title since then has had zero players you can say have broken through the academy and contributed heavily to that team for years to come. Can you name any United academy players that have broken through and contributed heavily to their success since 2005 ? I can't think of one player. They have tried out a few youngsters, but where are they now ? playing in the Championship or for relegation threatened teams. Remember Macheda ? Cleverley ? Januzaj ? where are they now ?

You bring up Lingard and Rashford. This is a United team who are finishing outside of the top 4. I highly doubt either of them would feature heavily for them if they were going for the title. Lingard is sh*t, ask most United fans what they think of him and they will tell you the same. Rashford had a poor season last season and it was definitely a backwards step for him. He couldn't get a game for a while and when Ibrahimovic got injured, he didn't exactly do much. Now that Lukaku has joined United, that has pushed Rashford back again. 

We get unfair criticism with our youngsters. Every team that has competed for league titles since 2005 has been in the same position as us.

First of all, the fact that United had about 5 or 6 players from their Class of 92 playing for them for almost 20 years is enough to excuse whatever failures they had with subsequent youngsters during that period. Secondly, at least they actually tried to introduce the youngsters into the team. The fact that they failed to establish themselves as nailed on first team players is down to the players and not United as a club. We on the other hand have a habit of not even giving them a chance. At least give the players a chance to fail if they're going to fail. 

Again, I don't think the criticism is unfair but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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6 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

Real Madrid have just won back to back CLs with Casemiro, a youth player, starting in midfield. Not to mention Vasquez and Asensio playing significant roles as well. There's also Carvajal who's been a starter for them during this 3 CLs in 4 years phase at RB. Oh and then there's Morata. 

Sometimes they send the players to other clubs and insert cheap buy back clauses but they still bring them back.

If Real Madrid can do it seamlessly, what's our excuse? Beyond academy players, we've sold the likes of De Bruyne and Lukaku without giving them a chance. We favoured 34 year old Eto'o and 34 year old Drogba over Lukaku ffs. Had nothing to do with him not being good enough especially when he was scoring for fun in the same league at the time. As I said, we deserve a lot of criticism.

I would expect us to try to give Baker a chance alongside our current crop of midfielders and have him replace Matic if we sell Matic but then again this is Chelsea, we might just go out and buy another CM.

We were banned for 2 transfer windows for getting Kakuta and he still didn't get a look in. He's nowhere to be found these days. I just hope Abraham doesn't end up like that.

Doesn't bother me as much as it used to though. I've made peace with the fact that it's just not going to happen at this club with the current structure. If it does happen, it'll be a bonus for me.

Doing all that cost us what exactly? We're not going to win the league every year so bringing in Eto'o for Lukaku did not stop us finishing top in 2013-14. It just seems the only reason for bringing in youth players is for the sake of having the moral high ground in arguments (supposedly doing it the right way). Well, even teams who do bring through youth spend ridiculous amounts of money on players anyway. I respect your opinion and agree that it would be nice to see youth come through...but what players that we've got rid of could you honestly say would have improved us to the point where we are kicking ourselves that we let them go? I refer to youth here, not players like De Bruyne, Mata, Lukaku. I'm sorry, I just do not think we deserve that much criticism for having a mentality that: 1. other clubs do and 2. is successful in different ways (winning trophies).

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Just now, BellettiBullet said:

Doing all that cost us what exactly? We're not going to win the league every year so bringing in Eto'o for Lukaku did not stop us finishing top in 2013-14. It just seems the only reason for bringing in youth players is for the sake of having the moral high ground in arguments (supposedly doing it the right way). Well, even teams who do bring through youth spend ridiculous amounts of money on players anyway. I respect your opinion and agree that it would be nice to see youth come through...but what players that we've got rid of could you honestly say would have improved us to the point where we are kicking ourselves that we let them go? I refer to youth here, not players like De Bruyne, Mata, Lukaku. I'm sorry, I just do not think we deserve that much criticism for having a mentality that: 1. other clubs do and 2. is successful in different ways (winning trophies).

What moral high ground? What's the point of spending years and years developing players and pouring huge investments into our multi million pound academy and facilities if we aren't going to get the odd player every now and then from there to play in the first team? Has nothing to do with moral high ground tbqh.

There's a case to be made that certain youngsters succeed around top clubs if you give them the chance. For example, after United got rid of Pogba, if he had gone to some small French or Portuguese club (or even a mid/bottom table English club like Morrison did) rather than Juventus, he may not have gotten to the level he's at right now. Josh McEachran was starting to look comfortable playing for us when Carlo was here until AVB binned him and the rest is history. 

But as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

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13 minutes ago, Barrettinator said:

What moral high ground? What's the point of spending years and years developing players and pouring huge investments into our multi million pound academy and facilities if we aren't going to get the odd player every now and then from there to play in the first team? Has nothing to do with moral high ground tbqh.

There's a case to be made that certain youngsters succeed around top clubs if you give them the chance. For example, after United got rid of Pogba, if he had gone to some small French or Portuguese club (or even a mid/bottom table English club like Morrison did) rather than Juventus, he may not have gotten to the level he's at right now. Josh McEachran was starting to look comfortable playing for us when Carlo was here until AVB binned him and the rest is history. 

But as I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I didn't mean you. I just meant that fans of other clubs have always been having a go at us for buying players rather than bringing our own through and 'doing it the right way'. Just seems they think we should bring youth through just for the sake of it, as opposed to them actually being ready or good enough. I apologise, I should have made that clear. Personally, I don't mind the system we have with our academy. If they are that good, they should be able to make it with us. If not, they go on loan or sold for profit. Good point about Pogba though.

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5 minutes ago, BellettiBullet said:

I didn't mean you. I just meant that fans of other clubs have always been having a go at us for buying players rather than bringing our own through. As in, promoting youth players for the sake of it rather than actually being good enough. I apologise, I should have made that clear. Personally, I don't mind the system we have with our academy. If they are that good, they should be able to make it with us. If not, they go on loan or sold for profit. Good point about Pogba though.

Oh I didn't take it as you referring to me specifically. I don't disagree with your point about players being able to make it if they're good enough. But that's why they need to be given the opportunity to succeed or fail tbh. 

For what it's worth, I'd take Bakayoko over Chalobah. I'd also take Baker over Chalobah tbh. Not too fussed about him not being given the spot we're given Bakayoko like Wilkins is. If we do sell him though (or any youngster henceforth), we need to insert a buy back clause.

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2 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

Because United had multiple academy players playing for them for decades and now that those have retired, they have players like Rashford (whatever your opinion on LVG and how Rashford broke into the team, he's still a first teamer right now) and Lingard who are academy boys playing for them. What criticism do they deserve?

Lingard is an argument against youth promotion, not for it. The guy is utter w**k.

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5 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Oh yeah, i forgot about that. Quite possibly the most insane contract in football right now. He must have been frothing out of the mouth when he was offered that. He's not even worth quarter of it.

For me it either shows how desperate Man U are to hold the facade that they are still bringing through youth or how little Lingard actually wants to be second fiddle at Man U

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Oh yeah, i forgot about that. Quite possibly the most insane contract in football right now. He must have been frothing out of the mouth when he was offered that. He's not even worth quarter of it.

Agents talk about these things between themselves and a good agent will always try to get the best deal for their clients. If agents hear that United are paying big bucks straight of the bat ,it makes them more amiable to our overtures.
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