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Antonio Rudiger


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8 hours ago, axman2526 said:

That does not surprise me. Almost at levels of Drinkwater, Baka and Emerson for useless waste of money signings.

Not even close 

Especially when being backed up by a person in the crowd saying they cant hear him.

Edited by Stim

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Since we’re questioning him, when did the consensus form that Rudiger is a top CB anyway? Was it just coz he was absent and the others are so poor? I don’t remember him getting much praise last season. I mean - he’s not great with the ball or in the tackle, is he? May have issues with his temperament too. Am genuinely curious to hear the defence now.


Wow. Any time he's played pre-injury he's been flawless and easily our best defender. Certainly better than anything we've had recently (Cahill, Luiz etc). He was superb last season. And yes he is great in the tackle. Quick, good in the air, reads the game very well and better than most CBs with the ball. Give the man some time to get up to speed.

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Just now, venom2011 said:


 

 


Wow. Any time he's played pre-injury he's been flawless and easily our best defender. Certainly better than anything we've had recently (Cahill, Luiz etc). He was superb last season. And yes he is great in the tackle. Quick, good in the air, reads the game very well and better than most CBs with the ball. Give the man some time to get up to speed.

 

Ok. I shall give him time. My post was deliberately a bit provocative btw - an invitation to put my doubts to rest. You’ve made the case well and i’m standing down. 

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3 hours ago, venom2011 said:


 

 


Wow. Any time he's played pre-injury he's been flawless and easily our best defender. Certainly better than anything we've had recently (Cahill, Luiz etc). He was superb last season. And yes he is great in the tackle. Quick, good in the air, reads the game very well and better than most CBs with the ball. Give the man some time to get up to speed.

 

He wasn't flawless, he was solid for the most part but had his share of errors, some costly.

I think the way Rudiger is seen on the forum has more to do with how low our standarts have become over the last several years rather than the player himself. We used to have world class CBs in the recent past, and Tony is not in the same class as JT, Carvalho or Gallas and never will be. Not his fault, obviously, but when you play for a top club, the expectations are always high.

Ideally, someone like Rudiger should be a backup in a top side, solid, experienced pro you can call upon when your first choice centerbacks are suspended/injured/tired. At his absolute best he may even remain a starter, as long as he's paired up with truly world class CB and they complement each other well. But I just don't see him as being the focal point of our defence, someone to build the backline around. He's simply not good enough.

Edited by abramovich

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4 hours ago, abramovich said:

Not his fault, obviously, but when you play for a top club, the expectations are always high.

Who has a better CB in the Big 6 than a fit Rudiger?

Manchester United? I'd take Rudiger over Maguire, at worst call it a push
Arsenal - right...
Manchester City - Laporte?
Liverpool - Van Dyk
Spurs -  Alderweireld, Vertonghen are solid, but they can't keep a clean sheet for anything

Is Rudiger World Class? No, but I'd say there's only one World Class CB in the Big 6 clubs right. Of course, they're miles ahead of everyone else and Van Dyk is a big reason why. So that goes to your point... my point is, that they're awfully damned hard to find out there...

 

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47 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Is Rudiger World Class? No, but I'd say there's only one World Class CB in the Big 6 clubs right. Of course, they're miles ahead of everyone else and Van Dyk is a big reason why. So that goes to your point... my point is, that they're awfully damned hard to find out there...

Certainly agree with that last point.

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Van Dyk is definitely the stand out CB in the Premier League right now and a big reason behind Liverpool's success the last year or so. I would say beyond that the best CB pairing is at Leicester. Evans and Soyuncu may not be fashionable names, but they have been excellent this season. I never rated Jonny Evans at United but he has done really well since leaving them. 

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33 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

Who has a better CB in the Big 6 than a fit Rudiger?

Manchester United? I'd take Rudiger over Maguire, at worst call it a push
Arsenal - right...
Manchester City - Laporte?
Liverpool - Van Dyk
Spurs -  Alderweireld, Vertonghen are solid, but they can't keep a clean sheet for anything

Is Rudiger World Class? No, but I'd say there's only one World Class CB in the Big 6 clubs right. Of course, they're miles ahead of everyone else and Van Dyk is a big reason why. So that goes to your point... my point is, that they're awfully damned hard to find out there...

 

At the moment I'd probably take Maguire over Rudiger. Neither is top class, but I feel Maguire has a more commanding presence and offers more overall as a player.

Both Vertonghen and Alderweireld in their prime were better defenders than Rudiger ever was. They're just past it, that's all, should have left that snakepit back when they were still good.

Laporte is a good shout. Given how much money City spent on defense, they should have got better other options than Otamendi and Stones, but that's just backs your point about the difficulty of acquiring a world class CB, even if you have a bottomless well of money.

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5 minutes ago, abramovich said:

At the moment I'd probably take Maguire over Rudiger.

At the moment... so would I, but it's close... which is pretty telling considering Rudiger is returning from a 6 month layoff and a pair of surgeries.

I've been a big fan of Rudiger the last several years, in part because of his pace, hampered by injury, his toughness and mentality. He had a magic wand of a right foot on the long switch, which has not returned. 

But I do think a lot of people under appreciate how good he's been the last three seasons for us.

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16 minutes ago, abramovich said:

At the moment I'd probably take Maguire over Rudiger. Neither is top class, but I feel Maguire has a more commanding presence and offers more overall as a player.

Couldn't disagree more, Maguire would get slaughtered playing in this system due to his lack of recovery pace.

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2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Couldn't disagree more, Maguire would get slaughtered playing in this system due to his lack of recovery pace.

90M doesn't get you what it used to, does it?

There's so few WC CBs in the world, that I don't think Rudiger is a weak link in our back 4. 

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2 hours ago, Argo said:

Couldn't disagree more, Maguire would get slaughtered playing in this system due to his lack of recovery pace.

We weren't discussing systems, just comparing players. I just said, at this moment in time Maguire looks a bit better than Rudiger.

As far as playing in the system, yes, Rudiger has pace, but what else? Does he read the game well, I'd say OK, but not great. His passing is quite average, his long passes are for the most part of poor quality. I have to give him credit he's got self confidence to attempt those quite regularly, but how many actually reach the intended player?

So while he's got pace and athleticism necessary to play in the system, I don't think he has the intelligence and technical skill required to do it well.

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Rudiger had a really poor game yesterday. Twice in the second half we could have conceded because of him. The first time Lacazette was offside when he was through, and the second time Zouma spared his blushes when he went to sleep and Aubameyang was clean through. His distribution was appalling also. He's big, tough, strong and fast, but a commanding top notch CB would be my priority in the summer.

 

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I think the criticism he is facing on here is surreal.. the guy just returned from a 6 month layoff.. but immediately the team looks and feels more solid... for starters he can head the ball... and talk which in itself is an improvement.. he is the best CB in the team by a mile... yes he may have  over/under hit a few 60 yard passes but i dont see a lot of defenders being asked to that week in week out.. with the frequency that our CBs need to.. 

Remember none of these CBs have played much with each other... and CBs work best in partnership... The problem with chelsea is that we are not trying to integrate 1/2 new players but from front to back we have 5-6 new players we are trying to integrate and players who are learning to trust and play with each other..  also Frank loves to rotate his team a lot. its difficult for CBs to be playing with different FBs every week to and then tweaks to systems... This has also been a frenetic first half with little time between games..

People should be patient.. wait till it becomes second nature for these players to find each other.. once that happens you will see more consistency in results.. 

 

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2 hours ago, Jangz said:

I think the criticism he is facing on here is surreal.. the guy just returned from a 6 month layoff.. but immediately the team looks and feels more solid... for starters he can head the ball... and talk which in itself is an improvement.. he is the best CB in the team by a mile... yes he may have  over/under hit a few 60 yard passes but i dont see a lot of defenders being asked to that week in week out.. with the frequency that our CBs need to.. 

Remember none of these CBs have played much with each other... and CBs work best in partnership... The problem with chelsea is that we are not trying to integrate 1/2 new players but from front to back we have 5-6 new players we are trying to integrate and players who are learning to trust and play with each other..  also Frank loves to rotate his team a lot. its difficult for CBs to be playing with different FBs every week to and then tweaks to systems... This has also been a frenetic first half with little time between games..

People should be patient.. wait till it becomes second nature for these players to find each other.. once that happens you will see more consistency in results.. 

 

Totally agree. Truth is that this system (and indeed the one last year) were far more open than anything we had during JT, Gallas and Percy's era. 

Not questioning their quality but when you don't press from the front and you let teams flood through midfield as we have on occassion the last two seasons. Neither would look the World class centre backs they were. For me Rudiger is streets ahead of our other centre halves. First choice starter for me.

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9 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Magnificent second goal. Well done Rudi.

He was a titan in lots of ways today. Again exposed by our ridiculously open system but his work was pretty bloody good all things considered.

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People are already trying to use Ivanovic’s song with him, might as well start calling him ‘Two Goal’ Antonio Rudiger too. 
 

Edit: The club already are...

83F09467-0182-462B-AFD1-EB651F0BF03C.jpeg

Edited by Munkworth

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