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Callum Hudson-Odoi


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6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Please bare in mind i'm saying ceiling, obviously Sancho's the better player currently.

Furthermore his assist against Newcastle is the exact type of situation i've often seen Willian balls up (and i'm far from a Willy hater), he had the composure to scan his surroundings and spot and then pick out Marcos.   

I think the data set you are reading into is too small. 

Which means I could well be wrong as well. 

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It does seem like Jorginho is a big character In the dressing room seems to lead well.


Back to this boy, like I said learn from this don't try to be a road man be responsible stay out of the papers because as a Young Black man they will absolutely destroy you if you give them a sniff.
I don't really see what skin color has to do with this to be honest. The media has been pretty much silent about this after the story broke. What makes you think this would have been handled differently if he had a different skin tone?

I'm well aware it's a hot topic at the moment but I'm not sure making statements like this helps the cause. There's no reason to believe it would have been any different if he had a different color.

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39 minutes ago, CFCholland said:

I don't really see what skin color has to do with this to be honest. The media has been pretty much silent about this after the story broke. What makes you think this would have been handled differently if he had a different skin tone?

I'm well aware it's a hot topic at the moment but I'm not sure making statements like this helps the cause. There's no reason to believe it would have been any different if he had a different color.
 

Certain aspects of the British media have a history of treating black players somewhat differently to white players. 

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5 hours ago, bluedave said:

Certain aspects of the British media have a history of treating black players somewhat differently to white players. 

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I thought it was a silly example of racism when thiscame out over a year ago. Foden had played in the Champions League and Premier League when his article was written while the other guy hadn't. Articles was also written by different people.

Personally I hate these kinds of articles and wouldn't normally read them. I don't have any interest in what footballers spend their money on. I just see the article on the guy who hadn't played as the media doing what it always does and try and make out that footballers make too much money too soon. The media are obsessed with how much money they earn. The articles are stupid, but it's a stretch to claim it's because he is black and not based on any evidence at all.

People need to stop looking for racism. There's enough off it around to not it make up.

The press love to destroy people if they are given the chance, but Hudson Odoi has been treated very well by the press. I haven't even seen as much publicity about him breaking lock down compared to the other footballers who broke it. Bringing race into this isn't needed.

Edited by Patch
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9 hours ago, Patch said:

I thought it was a silly example of racism when thiscame out over a year ago. Foden had played in the Champions League and Premier League when his article was written while the other guy hadn't. Articles was also written by different people.

I don't see how that is in any way relevant. If anything, it makes me wonder why they would even bother writing about "the other guy" in the first place, since he has such a low profile.

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1 hour ago, bluedave said:

I don't see how that is in any way relevant. If anything, it makes me wonder why they would even bother writing about "the other guy" in the first place, since he has such a low profile.

It's relevant because they are trying to point out is that a footballer who hasn't even played a game has splashed out millions despite not even starting a game. That's why they picked him, because he is low profile and still able to spend millions on a house. The media is obsessed with footballers wages and what they spend their money on. Of course Foden get's a different headline as his situation is different. He's hyped as the next big thing, and already part of one the best squads in the country. They are both stupid articles, and I don't think it's our buisness what they spend their money on, or if they have that much money so young without playing,  but it's not about race and I wonder (and worry) how peoples minds work that race is the thing they see when they see those two headlines. 

 

Anyway, this is about Hudson Odoi, and he has been treated fairly so far and race doesn't need to be mentioned. 

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2 minutes ago, Patch said:

It's relevant because they are trying to point out is that a footballer who hasn't even played a game has splashed out millions despite not even starting a game. That's why they picked him, because he is low profile and still able to spend millions on a house. The media is obsessed with footballers wages and what they spend their money on. Of course Foden get's a different headline as his situation is different. He's hyped as the next big thing, and already part of one the best squads in the country. They are both stupid articles, but it's not about race and I wonder (and worry) how peoples minds work that race is the thing they see when they see those two headlines. 

So was Sterling also a nobody when they picked on him? Interesting use of the word "blinging" don't you think, a word that originated in the black american music scene.

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16 minutes ago, Patch said:

It's relevant because they are trying to point out is that a footballer who hasn't even played a game has splashed out millions despite not even starting a game. That's why they picked him, because he is low profile and still able to spend millions on a house. The media is obsessed with footballers wages and what they spend their money on. Of course Foden get's a different headline as his situation is different. He's hyped as the next big thing, and already part of one the best squads in the country. They are both stupid articles, and I don't think it's our buisness what they spend their money on, or if they have that much money so young without playing,  but it's not about race and I wonder (and worry) how peoples minds work that race is the thing they see when they see those two headlines. 

 

Anyway, this is about Hudson Odoi, and he has been treated fairly so far and race doesn't need to be mentioned. 

The story of footballer spends millions and he isn't worth it, plays particularly well if that footballer is black. It also plays well if he is scouse. It's a class thing and unconscious racism. The general English public think black people are working class, poor and so it is "surprising" to see someone have an expensive house. The papers treat scousers in a similar way which is why Wayne Rooney got a lot of similar attention. People don't think of scousers or black people being rich or successful. That's my opinion on it. Hopefully we start to see that unconscious view change.

I think CHO can't complain about race or unfair treatment in this instance - and he hasn't. 

On race, I found it interesting when someone said "how often do you call a black player 'intelligent' and how often do you say they are 'strong'". That made me think.

Edited by bisright1
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51 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

The story of footballer spends millions and he isn't worth it, plays particularly well if that footballer is black. It also plays well if he is scouse. It's a class thing and unconscious racism. The general English public think black people are working class, poor and so it is "surprising" to see someone have an expensive house. They do the same with scousers which is why Wayne Rooney got a lot of similar attention. That's my opinion. 

I think CHO can't complain about race or unfair treatment in this instance - and he hasn't. 

On race, I found it interesting when someone said "how often do you call a black player 'intelligent' and how often do you say they are 'strong'". That made me think.

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist and there isn't a problem in the press in this country. I haven't read newspapers for many years so I don't know, but that doesn't mean that that specific example was because he was black and people shouldn't jump to conclusions like that.  Sometimes people see what they want to see.

I do remember Beckham getting treated like that when he was young as well.  Pretty sure I remember Giggs and Lee Sharpe getting it as well 20 odd years ago. This has always been a thing ever since I as a kid. The press love, or loved when I read it to go on about footballers being paid too much.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of friends who black friends who were convinced police treated them differently because they were black. Only problem was it turned out that I had more problems with being mistreated by the police than both of them put together despite me being the only one out of the the three to have never committed a crime and being white. 

Claiming racism where there isn't any proof of racism (like in that original example) doesn't help the cause. 

 

54 minutes ago, bluedave said:

So was Sterling also a nobody when they picked on him? Interesting use of the word "blinging" don't you think, a word that originated in the black american music scene.

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I don't like that headline, I'm not going to go through every article posted and I never said racism doesn't exist in the press. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

Edited by Patch
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1 hour ago, Patch said:

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist and there isn't a problem in the press in this country. I haven't read newspapers for many years so I don't know, but that doesn't mean that that specific example was because he was black and people shouldn't jump to conclusions like that.  Sometimes people see what they want to see.

I do remember Beckham getting treated like that when he was young as well.  Pretty sure I remember Giggs and Lee Sharpe getting it as well 20 odd years ago. This has always been a thing ever since I as a kid. The press love, or loved when I read it to go on about footballers being paid too much.

I recently had a conversation with a couple of friends who black friends who were convinced police treated them differently because they were black. Only problem was it turned out that I had more problems with being mistreated by the police than both of them put together despite me being the only one out of the the three to have never committed a crime and being white. 

Claiming racism where there isn't any proof of racism (like in that original example) doesn't help the cause. 

 

I don't like that headline, I'm not going to go through every article posted and I never said racism doesn't exist in the press. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

Well don't forget that Giggs is black. So maybe that's why the press went after him. 🙃

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59 minutes ago, Patch said:

I don't like that headline, I'm not going to go through every article posted and I never said racism doesn't exist in the press. I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this.

Somebody said "What makes you think this would have been handled differently if he had a different skin tone?". I gave examples of how it might have actually been handled differently if he had a different skin tone, which you seemed to object to because of something to do with how famous they are. So I gave you another example featuring a more famous player (and I could have provided several more).

Now you're saying "I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this." I'm just defending my original point, which is that certain aspects of the British media have a history of treating black players somewhat differently to white players. Now, where are you going with this?

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3 minutes ago, bluedave said:

Somebody said "What makes you think this would have been handled differently if he had a different skin tone?". I gave examples of how it might have actually been handled differently if he had a different skin tone, which you seemed to object to because of something to do with how famous they are. So I gave you another example featuring a more famous player (and I could have provided several more).

Now you're saying "I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this." I'm just defending my original point, which is that certain aspects of the British media have a history of treating black players somewhat differently to white players. Now, where are you going with this?

 I have no interest in debating what the media is like. I was just pointing out that was a silly example and explained why. 

 

43 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Nothing like anecdotes, friends of friends and some downplaying as a basis for a sweeping opinion :rolleyes:

Care to explain what sweeping opinion that is?

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1 hour ago, Patch said:

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist and there isn't a problem in the press in this country. I haven't read newspapers for many years so I don't know, but that doesn't mean that that specific example was because he was black and people shouldn't jump to conclusions like that.  Sometimes people see what they want to see.

I do remember Beckham getting treated like that when he was young as well.  Pretty sure I remember Giggs and Lee Sharpe getting it as well 20 odd years ago. This has always been a thing ever since I as a kid. The press love, or loved when I read it to go on about footballers being paid too much.

 

Beckham was from a poor family and that was known but very soon after his breakthrough he became very popular and he's really well spoken, the problems he had was because of some red card he got while playing for England and I remember the media being all over him prior to his Real Madrid transfer because someone hit him in the face with a boot or something like that, he was a real celebrity I don't remember him being bothered by the media because of his paycheck at all.
Giggs is mixed and he took his mothers last name but I don't remember the media doing anything towards him in that sense, he was really low key and he wasn't in the spotlight up until it became public that he had an affair with his brothers wife and all that ugly stuff, the thing I do remember is him talking about how they were paid very little during the 90's and how football wages and everything exploded later on but he wasn't really at the top when it came down to earnings from what I remember.

I have seen people hating players just because of their foreign backgrounds so having that in mind I think that any mention of money that they have is just fuel for those haters...In Sweden many didn't fancy someone like Larsson that is mixed or Ibrahimovic that has a full foreign background and they are known to be as the best attackers that Sweden has ever had, particularly Ibrahimovic and that's despite for everything good that they have done they always had some haters.
It reminds of an older rap song by Kanye West that says "And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop, even if you in a Benz you still a n**** in a coupe" - meaning even if you made it, many will still be racist towards you just because you look different.

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10 minutes ago, bluedave said:

Stop doing it then.

That's why I gave you another one.

I'm not debating it. At no point have I been debating what the media is like.

There wasn't any need to post another example as I was debating the media as a whole, just how silly the example you gave was. Giving more examples doesn't change how silly of an example it was.

6 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Beckham was from a poor family and that was known but very soon after his breakthrough he became very popular and he's really well spoken, the problems he had was because of some red card he got while playing for England and I remember the media being all over him prior to his Real Madrid transfer because someone hit him in the face with a boot or something like that, he was a real celebrity I don't remember him being bothered by the media because of his paycheck at all.
Giggs is mixed and he took his mothers last name but I don't remember the media doing anything towards him in that sense, he was really low key and he wasn't in the spotlight up until it became public that he had an affair with his brothers wife and all that ugly stuff, the thing I do remember is him talking about how they were paid very little during the 90's and how football wages and everything exploded later on but he wasn't really at the top when it came down to earnings from what I remember.

I have seen people hating players just because of their foreign backgrounds so having that in mind I think that any mention of money that they have is just fuel for those haters...In Sweden many didn't fancy someone like Larsson that is mixed or Ibrahimovic that has a full foreign background and they are known to be as the best attackers that Sweden has ever had, particularly Ibrahimovic and that's despite for everything good that they have done they always had some haters.
It reminds of an older rap song by Kanye West that says "And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop, even if you in a Benz you still a n**** in a coupe" - meaning even if you made it, many will still be racist towards you just because you look different.

Beckham was getting criticised by the press not living the lifestyle of a footballer as he started dating a pop star six to eight months after making his debut. His lifestyle was questioned very early on in his career.  They were writing negative articles about him very early on.

Giggs was very high profile when he broke through and there was a lot of talk in the papers about how much money he was earning. I actually think it was worse back then as the press and managers had the opinion that young players should wait until they earn big money.

Anyway, let's not ruin this thread with non Hudson Odoi stuff. Anyone can PM if they want to continue discussing this.

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1 hour ago, Patch said:

 

Care to explain what sweeping opinion that is?

"Claiming racism where there isn't any proof of racism...".

From your post I conclude you are not black, and probably white.; you seem to claim that because you - as a white person - don't perceive something as racist against people of colour, it therefore isn't racist. In other words: if people are offended, you're telling them it's nonsense and their feelings are their own fault. 

What kind of proof do you require anyway? 

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14 minutes ago, Valerie said:

"Claiming racism where there isn't any proof of racism...".

From your post I conclude you are not black, and probably white.; you seem to claim that because you - as a white person - don't perceive something as racist against people of colour, it therefore isn't racist. In other words: if people are offended, you're telling them it's nonsense and their feelings are their own fault. 

What kind of proof do you require anyway? 

Being offended doesn't mean people are right in feeling that way. There's nothing in the example (with the two headlines) to suggest it has anything to do with race. So yes, if you look at that and see racism then it is your own fault. Being offended doesn't mean anything. People get offended over silly things all the time. 

I'm more interested in facts than peoples feelings. Facts are all that matters.

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37 minutes ago, Patch said:

Being offended doesn't mean people are right in feeling that way. There's nothing in the example (with the two headlines) to suggest it has anything to do with race. So yes, if you look at that and see racism then it is your own fault. Being offended doesn't mean anything. People get offended over silly things all the time. 

I'm more interested in facts than peoples feelings. Facts are all that matters.

Yes, empathy is a questionable quality, and trying to walk a mile in someone's shoes is totally pointless, you're absolutely right  :face_palm:

I didn't think people still think like this. Lord.....

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21 hours ago, CFCholland said:

I don't really see what skin color has to do with this to be honest. The media has been pretty much silent about this after the story broke. What makes you think this would have been handled differently if he had a different skin tone?

I'm well aware it's a hot topic at the moment but I'm not sure making statements like this helps the cause. There's no reason to believe it would have been any different if he had a different color.
 

I'm glad the articles have been posted above and that's just the tip of it, there is a clear difference in how black people especially young black men are portrayed in the papers/media vs young white men, you may not like to hear it, you may not want to admit it but thats the facts. Sterling and many others have been vilified by the press  for the same behaviour of his white peers. Is that coincidence, no.

And this goes beyond just football, if you dont understand the issues Ask, Listen and Learn.

 

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I'm glad the articles have been posted above and that's just the tip of it, there is a clear difference in how black people especially young black men are portrayed in the papers/media vs young white men, you may not like to hear it, you may not want to admit it but thats the facts. Sterling and many others have been vilified by the press  for the same behaviour of his white peers. Is that coincidence, no.
And this goes beyond just football, if you dont understand the issues Ask, Listen and Learn.
 


I'm not going to have this discussion here. I just want to make clear that I don't deny that racism exists, and that I obviously condemn it.

It's not that I don't understand the issue that is at hand here. But it isn't beneficial for anything to claim racism when it's just not there. You see people(and I'm not saying you in this case) are almost 'searching' for something to be racist, when sometimes (and hopefully more often than not) it just isn't there.
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17 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Yes, empathy is a questionable quality, and trying to walk a mile in someone's shoes is totally pointless, you're absolutely right  :face_palm:

I didn't think people still think like this. Lord.....

Bit of a random reply. It's nothing to do with empathy or walking in others shoes, it's to do with accusing a writer of racism without any evidence.

It's out of order.

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2 minutes ago, CFCholland said:


 

 


I'm not going to have this discussion here. I just want to make clear that I don't deny that racism exists, and that I obviously condemn it.

It's not that I don't understand the issue that is at hand here. But it isn't beneficial for anything to claim racism when it's just not there. You see people(and I'm not saying you in this case) are almost 'searching' for something to be racist, when sometimes (and hopefully more often than not) it just isn't there.

 

This is exactly what I'm saying. Racism needs to be dealt with, but  It doesn't help at all for people to be looking for racism when it's not there, or at least there isn't any reasonable reason to think it's there

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27 minutes ago, Brutos said:

I'm glad the articles have been posted above and that's just the tip of it, there is a clear difference in how black people especially young black men are portrayed in the papers/media vs young white men, you may not like to hear it, you may not want to admit it but thats the facts. Sterling and many others have been vilified by the press  for the same behaviour of his white peers. Is that coincidence, no.

And this goes beyond just football, if you dont understand the issues Ask, Listen and Learn.

 

Just something that pertains to the general attitudes in this and other countries

 

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