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Next Chelsea Manager


Who would be your choice as Chelsea manager going into next season?  

213 members have voted

  1. 1. Here are the current favorites with Conte included. Jody Morris is in there as he is the current youth team manager, and promoting from within seems to have worked for Barca, so why not us?!

    • Luis Enrique
      7
    • Massimilliano Allegri
      10
    • Carlo Ancelotti
      18
    • Diego Simeoni
      20
    • Thomas Tuchel
      12
    • Maurizio Sarri
      57
    • Jody Morris
      18
    • Antonio Conte
      56
    • Other
      15


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33 minutes ago, the special one said:

Those links don't support your argument. 

He was initially part of performance analysis but since 2015 has been a technical director overseeing scouting, analysis and a research department "something which has since become more commonplace at Premier League clubs.". 

Nothing in the article suggests player recruitment is driven by stats. 

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1 hour ago, the special one said:

Absolutely, by no means was I suggesting Rudiger isn't good enough - it's just to me the stats suggested we could improve our overall depth/quality at CB. If anything Rudiger is Cahill's replacement and we still haven't replaced JT.

image.png.25618b37fc3e815ab85a78828c46ba56.png

His distribution (ball playing ability) isn't perhaps as good as it seems.

What does recovery even mean? Rigour? Show me tackles, passing % and interceptions then I'll buy in. 

It's one thing to base judgement off stats and another to do it off these vague categories. 

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40 minutes ago, the special one said:

I'll ask again. Any proof? These links quite literally mean nothing and say nothing about Liverpool using stats and hexagonal charts to choose who to sign.

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1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Those links don't support your argument. 

He was initially part of performance analysis but since 2015 has been a technical director overseeing scouting, analysis and a research department "something which has since become more commonplace at Premier League clubs.". 

Nothing in the article suggests player recruitment is driven by stats. 

That's fair maybe they don't - but he does have a degree in Informatics and given his previous role at Portsmouth as a Prozone analyst I think it's reasonable to assume some degree of statistical analysis is used in recruitment decisions.

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2 minutes ago, the special one said:

That's fair maybe they don't - but he does have a degree in Informatics and given his previous role at Portsmouth as a Prozone analyst I think it's reasonable to assume some degree of statistical analysis is used in recruitment decisions.

Assumption isn't a basis of proof. 

I'm fairly sure every top level club is using statistical analysis to some extent, hence Prozone being such a widely acknowledged system now. 

Raw data can help to some extent but it will never be the driving factor of player recruitment in football because there are too many variables to boil a players ability down to stats and numbers which is why the big clubs have such extensive scouting networks... No compensating for seeing first hand how good a player is. 

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1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Proof that stats are largely sh*t and people can stop using those ridiculous hexagons on the forum now.

Actually, they are quadrilaterals, but the point you make is still sound.  They are mostly bollocks.

 

 

(hexagons have six sides)

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1 minute ago, yorkleyblue said:

Actually, they are quadrilaterals, but the point you make is still sound.  They are mostly bollocks.

 

 

(hexagons have six sides)

Don't want to be that guy that has to always be right, but they do infact have six sides! (count the lines between the dots above)

 

Its like when everyone used to put those charts with 'chances created per 90' and stuff on here. How on earth can you determine a created chance in numerical form. Could be anything from a 2 yard pass to a Cesc lobbed through ball.

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5 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Don't want to be that guy that has to always be right, but they do infact have six sides! (count the lines between the dots above)

 

Its like when everyone used to put those charts with 'chances created per 90' and stuff on here. How on earth can you determine a created chance in numerical form. Could be anything from a 2 yard pass to a Cesc lobbed through ball.

See that's the problem with looking at these arse things when you are old and got the wrong glasses on.    You are sorta right, in a way, but not for that example above, which is four lines, with a dot in the middle of two.  I can, however, see that different performance criteria might give you a hexagon.

It would still be meaningless bollocks though.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Assumption isn't a basis of proof. 

I'm fairly sure every top level club is using statistical analysis to some extent, hence Prozone being such a widely acknowledged system now. 

Raw data can help to some extent but it will never be the driving factor of player recruitment in football because there are too many variables to boil a players ability down to stats and numbers which is why the big clubs have such extensive scouting networks... No compensating for seeing first hand how good a player is. 

So let's say you're looking for a DM - do you scout 5 top leagues looking for the player that most suits your needs? Would that not require placing trust in a scout whose opinion is largely subjective? Stats can be used as a basis to scout a player imho (i.e. to filter the selection process). I'm not saying stats are the be all and end all by any means, Zouma for example has been statistically poor this season but his numbers don't factor in the crap he had to play with at Stoke. I just don't agree that stats are largely sh*t is all i'm saying, if used in the right context they can be beneficial (i.e. Guerreiro for Portugal had a 97 defence score going into the WC match v Morocco, he was skinned 3 times during the first half - in other words the stats suggested he's poor defensively).

Edited by the special one

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17 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

See that's the problem with looking at these arse things when you are old and got the wrong glasses on.    You are sorta right, in a way, but not for that example above, which is four lines, with a dot in the middle of two.  I can, however, see that different performance criteria might give you a hexagon.

It would still be meaningless bollocks though.

It's 6 data points, so 6 sides, it just happens that that particular one has data points very close together, so the angle of the lines doesn't change much.

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12 minutes ago, the special one said:

So let's say you're looking for a DM - do you scout 5 top leagues looking for the player that most suits your needs? Would that not require placing trust in a scout whose opinion is largely subjective? Stats can be used as a basis to scout a player imho (i.e. to filter the selection process). I'm not saying stats are the be all and end all by any means, Zouma for example has been statistically poor this season but his numbers don't factor in the crap he had to play with at Stoke. I just don't agree that stats are largely sh*t is all i'm saying, if used in the right context they can be beneficial (i.e. Guerreiro for Portugal had a 97 defence score going into the WC match v Morocco, he was skinned 3 times during the first half - in other words the stats suggested he's poor defensively).

I don't know the inner workings of how a scouting network works but they exist because a club entrusts those individuals to competently assess the players. 

For example, this is scouting reporting that Villas Boas did on Newcastle whilst working at Chelsea.

https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01927/art18-1_1927022a.pdf 

He can assess a players strengths and weaknesses without the use of stats, just through an understanding of the sport. 

Obviously a scouting report on a team rather than an individual is going to be different but I think it helps highlight how stats would be very much a secondary consideration. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Zeta said:

It's 6 data points, so 6 sides, it just happens that that particular one has data points very close together, so the angle of the lines doesn't change much.

And the point was that that particular bit of mumbo-jumbo was apparently four-sided.  And it's still basically meaningless as well.  What were the specific circumstances in play at the precise moment that every piece of "data" was collected? What was the perception-bias of the collector?

You work in IT @Zeta, you know what is required for true data analysis,  and this ain't it.  It might well be a simplistic, if lazy, method of representing subjective opinion-based concepts, but meaningful knowledge it isn't.

 

Edited by yorkleyblue

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Stats can be turned to show anything, can be cherry picked to show x is better than y, can be manipulated to prove any old load of bollocks. Anyone who uses only stats as a basis to prove anything is an arse.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Stats can be turned to show anything, can be cherry picked to show x is better than y, can be manipulated to prove any old load of bollocks. Anyone who uses only stats as a basis to prove anything is an arse.

I think I remember using stats to highlight Kante and Bakayoko's lack of goals/assists last summer - that worked out well for us didn't it!

Edited by the special one

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4 minutes ago, the special one said:

I think I remember using stats to highlight Kante and Bakayoko's lack of goals/assists last summer - that worked out well for us didn't it!

I also remember people posting stats in 2013 that showed Andros Townsend had a better output for Spurs than Bale had the year before.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, dkw said:

Stats can be turned to show anything, can be cherry picked to show x is better than y, can be manipulated to prove any old load of bollocks. Anyone who uses only stats as a basis to prove anything is an arse.

Alternative Facts!!

Edited by TheChelsRVA

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56 minutes ago, the special one said:

I think I remember using stats to highlight Kante and Bakayoko's lack of goals/assists last summer - that worked out well for us didn't it!

Oh no, our defensive midfielders assists/goals arent great.....that basically is exactly what I meant, thanks for proving me completely correct.

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5 hours ago, mwblue10 said:

I find that surprising but it may well be.  Regardless, I don’t think any fans or anyone at Chelsea care, as anyone with half a brain can see that Rüdiger is the superior player.

Rugani is a solid young defender and adding him to the team excites me more than, say, Zouma coming back in.

I'm one of those supports who is a big fan of Zouma and think that he has a bright future. Knee injury was brutal but hope he gets his shot and takes it well.

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56 minutes ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

I'm one of those supports who is a big fan of Zouma and think that he has a bright future. Knee injury was brutal but hope he gets his shot and takes it well.

I like Zouma too, but not sure he’s going to make it here.  The injury just killed him.

 Like another poster has mentioned, if Zouma wasn’t our player and we were linked with buying him from Stoke, would you be excited about that signing?

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7 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

I like Zouma too, but not sure he’s going to make it here.  The injury just killed him.

 Like another poster has mentioned, if Zouma wasn’t our player and we were linked with buying him from Stoke, would you be excited about that signing?

Right, understandable view point. Honestly to answer that, I wouldn't know. I don't follow other players from other teams or leagues closely enough to make solid judgments about transfers, I just hope for the best. But watching him (before knee injury) it looked like if he improved his ball skills he could really be a solid defender for us for a long time. But I didn't watch enough of Stoke to see how he did there this past season; I thought I heard solid recaps, but who knows. 

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43 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Big day tomorrow then. 

jack sh*t happening.  This is not getting sorted until June 30th/July 1st

 

Im sure of it

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