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Maurizio Sarri Officially Appointed


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11 hours ago, coco said:

You need to get out more.

Jorginho is not by any stretch of the imagination a defensive player. The only protection he offers is when he has the ball at his feet, apart from that he's just a body in the way when we haven't got the ball, so plan A is keep the ball and you don't need a defensive midfielder. If Sarri wanted a strong defensive player in that position, he has Kante. 

I don't do abusing forum members for their opinions, that is what this place is for and I like reading people opinions if they differ from mine.

What I would say here Coco, and I like a lot of what you post, is surely in the modern game every player has a role to play with and without the ball.

The keeper needs to be able to distribute with the ball, organize his defence, communicate and sort his starting position out without the ball.

Similarly the defenders need to move the ball efficiently out of danger to the midfield or forward area with the ball, and organize their line, positioning and marking of opponents without.

The wide players need to run the channels, pass effectively, and cross with the ball, track back, tuck in and cover exposed midfielders without.

Forward players we know generally get a bit of a pass defensively but even they, without the ball, need to be showing for the ball, making runs in behind, pinning defenders etc.

What does Jorginho offer at the moment without the ball? With the ball I would accuse all of the midfielders (Excluding Hazard who I put in the wide/forward bracket) of providing very little at the moment. Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho all fall way short of what is currently needed with the ball. But for me additionally Jorginho offers very little without the ball simply due to his physical limitations (when he is faced up one on one, he is actually a very good, clean tackler of the ball), being his lack of pace.

I also think that the shortcomings of the other midfielders undoubtedly puts added focus and attention, unfairly on Jorginho, but if we are going to have a pivot that is purely keeping us moving, with little off the ball responsibilities, then the other midfielders need to step up with the creative forward passing to allow for our defenders to play the line that Sarri requires, which is a total of 35 metres from back line to front line at all times.

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22 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I don't do abusing forum members for their opinions, that is what this place is for and I like reading people opinions if they differ from mine.

What I would say here Coco, and I like a lot of what you post, is surely in the modern game every player has a role to play with and without the ball.

The keeper needs to be able to distribute with the ball, organize his defence, communicate and sort his starting position out without the ball.

Similarly the defenders need to move the ball efficiently out of danger to the midfield or forward area with the ball, and organize their line, positioning and marking of opponents without.

The wide players need to run the channels, pass effectively, and cross with the ball, track back, tuck in and cover exposed midfielders without.

Forward players we know generally get a bit of a pass defensively but even they, without the ball, need to be showing for the ball, making runs in behind, pinning defenders etc.

What does Jorginho offer at the moment without the ball? With the ball I would accuse all of the midfielders (Excluding Hazard who I put in the wide/forward bracket) of providing very little at the moment. Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho all fall way short of what is currently needed with the ball. But for me additionally Jorginho offers very little without the ball simply due to his physical limitations (when he is faced up one on one, he is actually a very good, clean tackler of the ball), being his lack of pace.

I also think that the shortcomings of the other midfielders undoubtedly puts added focus and attention, unfairly on Jorginho, but if we are going to have a pivot that is purely keeping us moving, with little off the ball responsibilities, then the other midfielders need to step up with the creative forward passing to allow for our defenders to play the line that Sarri requires, which is a total of 35 metres from back line to front line at all times.

I'm not abusing anyone, just sticking up for the manager and countering some of the bile aimed at his direction.

I'm underwhelmed by Jorginho as much as anyone, but i have been even more underwhelmed with Kovacic and Barkley, i would like to see RLC in for Kovacic, with a RLC Kante Jorginho midfield, it's a better balanced mf imo. Kovacic and Jorginho is too weak for the 30 mins per game we dont have the ball. RLC is more direct in going forward, bigger, stronger and faster than Kovacic. 

My main worry for Sarri is the backline, we need defenders who are fast and pass the ball fast, we got neither. They need to be center circle defenders, look at citys.

 

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If Sarri falls somewhere it is his stubborness. In his last presser he explained his view but he will follow Jose and Antonio in a second if he doesn't (1)rotate, (2)play the opponent with a tailored system, (3)use fringe options like CHO or Palmieri. 

My question to Sarri is if you don't succeed with Willian or Pedro what is the harm of starting with CHO or if Alonso is used as a traffic cone why not let Palmieri have a go? Other players will get the wrong message if underperforming players get to start over and again. 

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27 minutes ago, coco said:

I'm not abusing anyone, just sticking up for the manager and countering some of the bile aimed at his direction.

I'm underwhelmed by Jorginho as much as anyone, but i have been even more underwhelmed with Kovacic and Barkley, i would like to see RLC in for Kovacic, with a RLC Kante Jorginho midfield, it's a better balanced mf imo. Kovacic and Jorginho is too weak for the 30 mins per game we dont have the ball. RLC is more direct in going forward, bigger, stronger and faster than Kovacic. 

My main worry for Sarri is the backline, we need defenders who are fast and pass the ball fast, we got neither. They need to be center circle defenders, look at citys.

 

We'd all like to see RLC

I reckon even Sarri wants to see RLC

He just has to stay fit for more than 5 minutes.

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6 hours ago, Wearyourblue said:

he's world class in speed of touch, short passes, movement off the ball, and directing/coaching on the field.

he needs a better long ball, and he could defend bettter for his role.  Our midfield has very good peices but don't really match our forwards.  Kovacic, Jorginho, and Kante all have a lot of class... but are all missing the big game, long shots, long passes and winning headers.  Sometimes it's not that one guy hurts us, it's we're missing some pieces that we must have.

You mentioned short "passes" I asked for two things other passing.

World class speed of touch and movement off the ball. No, I don't think so. Might have looked that in Italy, a slower tempo less intense league, but certainly not seeing it here. In fact his lack of quick movement is one of the major factors in him being unable to deal with the close, man to man, press.

He isn't world class in anything IMO. Fabregas in his prime was.

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15 hours ago, wallosh said:
22 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:
Higuain was signed because he's supposed to make immediate impact, he's the chosen one and knew it all about how Sarri ball works. He hasn't been terrible, but certainly underwhelming. It's the kind of short term signing Chelsea not keen, but did it anyway to help Sarri out. Sarri got more support from the board than Conte. Conte had Morata under performing for a season, of course it's his own fault to kick out Costa and started off the whole thing, bet he won't be fast on keypad in his next job.

It was Costa's fault when he got kicked out by Conte. Costa isn't bigger than the team. If we had supported Conte then, we would no longer have any players underperforming so as to get the manager sacked!

It was like 50-50, knowing the type of character Costa was, Conte should have been more diligent rather than poke the bear. He's probably trying to force a move for his favorite striker, unfortunately it didn't happen and he lost the striker he couldn't afford to live without.

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General comments:

Neither Lukaku or Costa have set the world on fire this season.

I've enjoyed 3 matches under Sarri ( not going to include weaker opposition):
The 2 Carabao LC double against Spurs and the win against City.

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2 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Presumably 90-yard assists from the goalkeeper are a key tenet of 'Guardiolaball'.

Just goes to show. 

You can aspire to wanting to play all the passes in the world but sometimes a bit of good old route one does the trick just fine. 

There's a reason Kevin Davies survived so long in the Premier League. 

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To further point out how Conte is simply a better manager, he started shaky and changed the formation - he adapted to the strenghts of the players and to the league. That resulted in him winning the Premier league in his first season, making him better than Pep that not only just wanted his football but also spent much more money.

Sarri is doing the exact opposite of Conte.

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So many people on here are being so hypocritical on this thread it’s laughable.. funny how Conte is held in such high regard now and “flexible” no, that’s what happened what so ever. Conte joined and used our old system we got trashed at Arsenal 3-0 and he went to his three at the back counter attack it worked unlike sarriball and then he had blind faith in his own system long after it was failing just like your accusing sarri of now .. everyone was accusing him of playing bakayoko as a message to the board and making the same subs and not trying any thing to change it. When we played city away and hazard complained and even conte said it’s better to lose 1-0 than 6-0 everyone wanted contes head on a stick saying he was spineless and should of at least played football even if it meant a hiding. Which is what sarri did and everyone wishes we had stayed compact and played on the break.. I actually think we played pretty wel vs city going forward in that first 20 mins even the commentators said it a few times. 

 

Ive no idea what the solution is and I think sarri has completely lost the players and fans but people going on about conte now your absolutely full of sh*t to be honest

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19 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

To further point out how Conte is simply a better manager, he started shaky and changed the formation - he adapted to the strenghts of the players and to the league. That resulted in him winning the Premier league in his first season, making him better than Pep that not only just wanted his football but also spent much more money.

Sarri is doing the exact opposite of Conte.

Did you just say Conte is better than Pep?

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3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I don't do abusing forum members for their opinions, that is what this place is for and I like reading people opinions if they differ from mine.

What I would say here Coco, and I like a lot of what you post, is surely in the modern game every player has a role to play with and without the ball.

The keeper needs to be able to distribute with the ball, organize his defence, communicate and sort his starting position out without the ball.

Similarly the defenders need to move the ball efficiently out of danger to the midfield or forward area with the ball, and organize their line, positioning and marking of opponents without.

The wide players need to run the channels, pass effectively, and cross with the ball, track back, tuck in and cover exposed midfielders without.

Forward players we know generally get a bit of a pass defensively but even they, without the ball, need to be showing for the ball, making runs in behind, pinning defenders etc.

What does Jorginho offer at the moment without the ball? With the ball I would accuse all of the midfielders (Excluding Hazard who I put in the wide/forward bracket) of providing very little at the moment. Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho all fall way short of what is currently needed with the ball. But for me additionally Jorginho offers very little without the ball simply due to his physical limitations (when he is faced up one on one, he is actually a very good, clean tackler of the ball), being his lack of pace.

I also think that the shortcomings of the other midfielders undoubtedly puts added focus and attention, unfairly on Jorginho, but if we are going to have a pivot that is purely keeping us moving, with little off the ball responsibilities, then the other midfielders need to step up with the creative forward passing to allow for our defenders to play the line that Sarri requires, which is a total of 35 metres from back line to front line at all times.

good post, 

I agree with a lot of that, I think jorginho does contribute defensively, but the way we press is so unorganised that it makes it very easy to isolate him and take advantage of his physical limitations. 

I also think the last point is a key reason why we are easy to play against. Sarri wants the team to move up and down the pitch as a compact unit, like you said 35 meters from front to back. The problem with this is the defence does not have the pace to play that high, so there natural instincts are to play slightly deeper. This then stretches the whole team to at times double the 35 meters from back to front, and there are gaps and spaces all over the field. 

This a massive issue for the team, and for jorginho especially, kante and kova/Barkley step up to press, and there is too much space around jorginho, and one or 2 passes usually beats are poor press, then the opposition is in. 

Jorginho for his part, needs to be more physical, he needs to show more of the dark arts, make a few more tactical fouls, and give the team chance to get back in position. His distribution could also be better, he's making the wrong decisions more often than he was earlier in the season. 

With the players we have, I think the only way for sarri to make it until the summer, would be if gave up on the high press, kept kante and kova/Barkley close to jorginho, and just defend from our own half against the big teams. That's pretty much how we played against city at the bridge. 

It is suicide to continue to press high with forwards that dont press, and defend high with defenders that are slow. 

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5 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Pointless when one manager has played some of Europe's worst teams, had an easy league cup run and a couple of easy ones in the fa cup.

Exactly.

I'm sure if someone looked hard enough they could find a decent win percentage for Alan Pardew at some point!! Meaningless.

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4 hours ago, coco said:

I'm not abusing anyone, just sticking up for the manager and countering some of the bile aimed at his direction.

I'm underwhelmed by Jorginho as much as anyone, but i have been even more underwhelmed with Kovacic and Barkley, i would like to see RLC in for Kovacic, with a RLC Kante Jorginho midfield, it's a better balanced mf imo. Kovacic and Jorginho is too weak for the 30 mins per game we dont have the ball. RLC is more direct in going forward, bigger, stronger and faster than Kovacic. 

My main worry for Sarri is the backline, we need defenders who are fast and pass the ball fast, we got neither. They need to be center circle defenders, look at citys.

 

In regards to the defence. I am very surprised we chose Luiz rather than throwing a load of money at Napoli or Southampton for Koulibaly or Van Dijk. I like Luiz but he was almost 30 when we signed him. 

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33 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Pointless when one manager has played some of Europe's worst teams, had an easy league cup run and a couple of easy ones in the fa cup.

Pep also had a better team player for player who were coming from an offensive system and a season with less competiton at the time.

I mean a squad with Y.Toure, Aguero, KDB, Sane, Sterling, Zabaleta, Kompany, Jesus, Fernando, Fernandinho, Silva, Navas, Kolarov, Otamendi, Gundogan is far from average. 

Edited by enigma

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25 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Pointless when one manager has played some of Europe's worst teams, had an easy league cup run and a couple of easy ones in the fa cup.

Liverpool away, and Tottenham home and away in the League Cup is far from an easy run.

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5 minutes ago, Argo said:

Can anyone who's so anti Jorginho answer this.

If he's so bad, why do most opposition managers base their entire game plans when playing Chelsea around stopping him? 

I think it's a stretch to suggest they "base their entire game plan" on stopping Jorginho. 

I don't think it is that Jorginho is so bad but it does seem that it is far too easy to negate what strong points he has. Once he is hassled and closed down there is very little to his game. 

Edited by Nibs

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2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Can anyone who's so anti Jorginho answer this.

If he's so bad, why do most opposition managers base their entire game plans when playing Chelsea around stopping him? 

He isn't a bad player. It's just there's no context to why he isn't standing out as much. 

1. He is adapting to a new league. Many midfielders and players (including our own player hazard, and most recently Fabinho) have mentioned the pace is hard to adapt to initially. 

2. The pressure of living up to the price tag. 

3. Playing for a team which doesn't know how to effectively play Sarri's style. At Napoli they were a well oiled machine where every player knew what they were doing and there was always off the ball movement for him to pick passes out much easier. 

4. Fatigue. No winter break (like in Serie A) and nobody to replace him in that role at the moment with the illogical sale of Fabregas. 

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5 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I think it's a stretch to suggest they "base their entire game plan" on stopping Jorginho. 

I don't think it is that Jorginho is so bad but it does seem that it is far too easy to negate what strong points he has. Once he is hassled and closed down there is very little to his game. 

Mourinho admitted as much and others have changed to the diamond formation solely to play us which suggests that Jorginho was the main focus on their thoughts/worries pre match. 

If he really was some fraud who could do nothing but pass five yards sideways then all these managers are being quite dumb making stopping him a key part of the game plan.

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