Jorginho is.... (well now was) a Blue

[strider6004]

45 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho did lose possession at the second goal we conceded but again it seems that nobody noticed that James chipped the ball back to him first and foremost and that Jorginho barely managed to connect with the header there which in turn made us lose possession - it's a bit obvious that we were sloppy there as a unit and not just Jorginho because how can Pereira, a player that prior to this match had 5 goals and 3 assists in 25 games abuse our backline so much? He had 2 goals and 2 assists but when we look at the full sequence for that second goal - Zouma, Alonso, James and Mendy did absolutely nothing there at all, no effort to defend whatsoever.

I called out that poor James back-pass on the match thread.

A lot of our players defensively were poor, Silva and Zouma too.

Alonso was typical Alonso being slow in getting back yet offensively was one of our best players. 

Jorginho was probably the worst offender yet except did not get himself sent off. 

[Ernie_blue]

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

One more thing. How come CHO can get hauled off after coming on as a sub when he was playing nowhere near the level of poor Jorgi was, but Jorgi stays on for 70 minutes?

Easy to pick on the kid I guess.

And we all know someone like CHO would have been hauled off at halftime if he played like Jorgo in the first half.

[just]

This one bad game narrative is starting to grate a little. He was a disaster yesterday but he was also rubbish last time out against Leeds, completely bullied out of the game and hardly touched the ball. Even on his half-decent days how often does the bloke churn out a MOTM performance?

As others have pointed out Jorginho is smoke and mirrors. The Emporer's new clothes. Style over substance. A frippery. An adornment. Something that in the right circumstances can look pretty but doesn't actually do much. Fine and dandy when the team are running smoothly and the opposition aren't posing many problems but as we have seen time and time again, is a liability when the pressure is on and finding time and space is a battle. His remarkable physical limitations alone mean he should never be anything more than a bench filler for a top team.

I dunno. The day Chelsea sell him you are all invited to a messy party round my house. Gol, that includes you. We can blow up the balloons together.

Edited April 4, 2021 by just

[LongtimerLurker]

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I have heard that thing, "DM protecting the backline" far too much earlier in the season but this is the first game where you can actually pinpoint to our DM simply not playing well at all and making a lot of problems for our team.

Even so, how can any DM protect the backline given the fact in what manner we conceded the first goal - from a long ball that came from the opposition keeper right to his striker? That has nothing to do with our midfield, that is just terrible defending.

Yes Jorginho had a bad game as said, but it still doesn't mean that our defending was acceptable - Yes he did lose the ball that resulted in T.Silva getting 2 yellow cards but does that mean that T.Silva will always get a red card as soon as he's put under pressure, isn't he a world class player that should be fairly comfortable in handling at least one West Brom striker? I find it a bit mind-blowing that some think that T.Silva had no responsibility at all, someone with his experience should have done better.

Jorginho did lose possession at the second goal we conceded but again it seems that nobody noticed that James chipped the ball back to him first and foremost and that Jorginho barely managed to connect with the header there which in turn made us lose possession - it's a bit obvious that we were sloppy there as a unit and not just Jorginho because how can Pereira, a player that prior to this match had 5 goals and 3 assists in 25 games abuse our backline so much? He had 2 goals and 2 assists but when we look at the full sequence for that second goal - Zouma, Alonso, James and Mendy did absolutely nothing there at all, no effort to defend whatsoever.

I don't buy this same old "must find a DM that protects the backline" because Lampard basically put Kante at the base of the midfield for that "protection" and it didn't work out at all because as soon as our defenders were pressured they simply couldn't defend at all, this was the case yesterday even with Jorginho having a bad game.

A more complete picture is that while having a player less it was Jorginho's build up that led to our 2nd goal before he got subbed off, so even while having his worst game he still managed to find an opening with a long ball towards Alonso which in turn passed to Werner for an easy tap-in by Mount - 1 bad game doesn't mean that Jorginho never ever managed to do anything, I wouldn't start him against Porto after this bad performance but we definitely need him for the rest of the season and if Gilmour isn't getting any game time we simply must buy a DM in the summer because part from Jorginho we don't have a DM that sits deep and that can pass the ball well. 

Tbh DM is just an umbrella term I think when most people call for a more physical and direct mid. Think Fabinho we could do with a similar profile.

[Bob stark]

9 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I have heard that thing, "DM protecting the backline" far too much earlier in the season but this is the first game where you can actually pinpoint to our DM simply not playing well at all and making a lot of problems for our team.

Even so, how can any DM protect the backline given the fact in what manner we conceded the first goal - from a long ball that came from the opposition keeper right to his striker? That has nothing to do with our midfield, that is just terrible defending.

Yes Jorginho had a bad game as said, but it still doesn't mean that our defending was acceptable - Yes he did lose the ball that resulted in T.Silva getting 2 yellow cards but does that mean that T.Silva will always get a red card as soon as he's put under pressure, isn't he a world class player that should be fairly comfortable in handling at least one West Brom striker? I find it a bit mind-blowing that some think that T.Silva had no responsibility at all, someone with his experience should have done better.

Jorginho did lose possession at the second goal we conceded but again it seems that nobody noticed that James chipped the ball back to him first and foremost and that Jorginho barely managed to connect with the header there which in turn made us lose possession - it's a bit obvious that we were sloppy there as a unit and not just Jorginho because how can Pereira, a player that prior to this match had 5 goals and 3 assists in 25 games abuse our backline so much? He had 2 goals and 2 assists but when we look at the full sequence for that second goal - Zouma, Alonso, James and Mendy did absolutely nothing there at all, no effort to defend whatsoever.

I don't buy this same old "must find a DM that protects the backline" because Lampard basically put Kante at the base of the midfield for that "protection" and it didn't work out at all because as soon as our defenders were pressured they simply couldn't defend at all, this was the case yesterday even with Jorginho having a bad game.

A more complete picture is that while having a player less it was Jorginho's build up that led to our 2nd goal before he got subbed off, so even while having his worst game he still managed to find an opening with a long ball towards Alonso which in turn passed to Werner for an easy tap-in by Mount - 1 bad game doesn't mean that Jorginho never ever managed to do anything, I wouldn't start him against Porto after this bad performance but we definitely need him for the rest of the season and if Gilmour isn't getting any game time we simply must buy a DM in the summer because part from Jorginho we don't have a DM that sits deep and that can pass the ball well. 

Hmm, I don't think anyone blame Jorgi for the 1st goal. You bring out strange point. It was Zouma mistake. I am pretty sure everyone agree with this. 

In term of dm that protect our backline, kante did it very2 well for us. Who said he can't? Our bad run under Lamp was against stronger team. It doesn't matter who is the dm, against stronger team you need everyone to chip in. 

[Bob stark]

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

1. Mount can absolutely play deeper and it was kind of a real emergency.

2. Gilmour was on the bench and there are many people that think that he's good enough to play.

I don't buy that Tuchel had no options because he DID take off Jorginho after 70 minutes so he could have done it much sooner after it was really obvious that he's having a bad game!

It wasn't emergency, you take out jorgi, the only real midfielder left is kova and kova isn't a holder whatsoever. 

Ooops my fault about Gilmour, i thought he wasn't in the team. I like billy, his game is very expansive but you don't want to play very expansive when you are down 10 man. 

Tuchel had no other option, I am not big fan of Jorginho but I won't take him out. The only option is to play james next to kova but I don't think Tuchel have seen James play dm before. It is the reality either Jorgi/kante has to play because we simply don't have any midfielder

 

[Gol15]

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

It wasn't emergency, you take out jorgi, the only real midfielder left is kova and kova isn't a holder whatsoever. 

Ooops my fault about Gilmour, i thought he wasn't in the team. I like billy, his game is very expansive but you don't want to play very expansive when you are down 10 man. 

Tuchel had no other option, I am not big fan of Jorginho but I won't take him out. The only option is to play james next to kova but I don't think Tuchel have seen James play dm before. It is the reality either Jorgi/kante has to play because we simply don't have any midfielder

 

Please if Tuchel had no option he wouldn't have taken out Jorginho at minute 72' either...

[Bob stark]

34 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Please if Tuchel had no option he wouldn't have taken out Jorginho at minute 72' either...

At min 72,it was desperation time,pretty much a roulette.

Did we get better after we bring in Havertz? Nope. 

 

[Ukraine Bolt]

Really not great when a team actually bothers to press him.

[just]

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Really not great when a team actually bothers to press him.

I hadn't noticed that myself.

[Scott Harris]

3 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Really not great when a team actually bothers to press him.

I was starting to have hope that Jorginho had finally started to get this part of his game sorted vs Everton, but it seems like it was only a one off.

[axman2526]

Despite our concerns he had a decent enough game and played a key pass for Mounts goal. 

[LongtimerLurker]

3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I was starting to have hope that Jorginho had finally started to get this part of his game sorted vs Everton, but it seems like it was only a one off.

Hopefully WBA was the one off 🤞🏿

[Deino]

He was excellent against Porto. Man of the Match performance 

[PloKoon13]

There was a very worrying fifteen minutes or so in the first half during which our midfield was completely overrun and we were pinned back in our own third, completely unable to get the ball forward at all in possession. I feared the worst.

Did far better when he actually got his head up and played the ball forward - even got the assist for the opener! MOTM is a stretch though...

[Gol15]

Great comeback after a bad game vs WBA. @The Don Antonio was right, if anyone had the capacity to make amends it was Jorginho!

[just]

Has jumped ahead of De Bruyne and is now rated statistically as the second best player in Europe. 

Seriously though, I don't think we played a meaningful forward pass for 30 minutes until he rolled that ball into Mount. Yes, Mount still had a lot to do to score but we have been begging for Jorginho to be positive and pass forward and he did just that. A key moment.

Was still very shaky defensively when pressed and for that reason Kante should start the 2nd leg when Porto have their two goal scorers back from suspension.

[Gol15]

 

[RMH]

2 hours ago, just said:

Has jumped ahead of De Bruyne and is now rated statistically as the second best player in Europe. 

Seriously though, I don't think we played a meaningful forward pass for 30 minutes until he rolled that ball into Mount. Yes, Mount still had a lot to do to score but we have been begging for Jorginho to be positive and pass forward and he did just that. A key moment.

Was still very shaky defensively when pressed and for that reason Kante should start the 2nd leg when Porto have their two goal scorers back from suspension.

And I still rather had KDB in our team...

I agree with you, I thought he did not play that well as the stats tell. Overall we did not control well large parts of the game as it occurs when the teams press our midfield. Porto did that very well. However, brilliant assist to Mount, I have to admit that moments like that show he can be a great player (he just doesn't show it consistently enough). Other than that, I don't think that he and Kova managed well Porto's press and could not control the midfield.

[Ukraine Bolt]

I beg someone shuts his agent up, every single week it’s a different story with him 

[Ukraine Bolt]

Dribbled past 5 times last night. Tidy at keeping the ball when we have it but we play without a DM when he’s on the pitch. Hope we go out and buy someone more well rounded like Rice in summer and let him go back to his beloved Italy tbh. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by RIP Mourinho

[Gol15]

22 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Dribbled past 5 times last night. Tidy at keeping the ball when we have it but we play without a DM when he’s on the pitch. Hope we go out and buy someone more well rounded like Rice in summer and let him go back to his beloved Italy tbh. 

This season though, Jorginho has been better than Rice and if we keep the majority of the possession in most games we don't need Rice but a sitting classic DM, which Rice doesn't offer as he roams a whole lot similar to Kante. Also we didn't have over 20 games without defeat for nothing, Jorginho has done well overall.

[dkw]

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

This season though, Jorginho has been better than Rice

No he hasnt.

[Gol15]

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

No he hasnt.

That's just your opinion, that is in general biased against Jorginho, at all times or so...so...feel free to disagree but stats say otherwise 

[axman2526]

His agent might be spouting BS but if he does want to go home then I say let him if we get an acceptable offer. Not sure any of those sides in Italy can afford him though as even Milan are struggling to pay half that for Tomori.