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Jorginho is a Blue


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2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Is this why Laporte was chasing Immobile the whole game and making his life difficult, because it's not his job to take care of the striker? LMAO these stupid takes are taking a whole new level now that Jorginho has made the final in every possible cup he played in ever since we bought him :laugh2:

I didnt mention Jorginho you f**king nutjob. If Laporte was part of a central 2 and was chasing him then he shouldnt have, its a fundamental you are taught at a very early age as a centre back.

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4 hours ago, RMH said:

I may be biased here but I didn't see Jorginho do much, or indeed Italy's midfield, for most part of the game. Spain controlled them quite well and Jorginho was quite ineffective and did not manage to grab the control of the midfield. Defensively he may have had X interceptions or Y ball recoveries, but you'd want him to control the match and get the team ticking being a "world class" deep lying playmaker. Even more, if you look at the offensive stats he was pretty inefficient and in passing statistics, Chiellini is much better than Jorginho in long ball accuracy, pass accuracy etc

He took his penalty as cool as he always does, he has very good technique and rarely misses.

Better players than Jorginho have lost midfield battles against Spain/Barcelona/Spanish players. It's pretty much the identity in the national team to control possession/games with heaps of technically astute players especially since Pep's Barcelona (it was one of the reason's David Villa was head and shoulders above prime Torres for Spain).

One of the GOAT DLP's played for Italy against Spain in 2012, and also looked lost.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Oli said:

Oh gosh, not all this again. I came on here to congratulate him on his penalty. Instead all I see is this constant back and forth. Its getting childish and embarrassing now.

Also you don't help the matter @Gol15 by acting like Jorginho is the most perfect player that ever existed and every success of our team is down to him. It's almost as though you are related to him or he's sponsoring you. I'm not blaming you as you are trying to stick up for him, but I can also see why this thread just keeps continuing day in day out like this, because of that. 

You're stretching that I'm acting something out here, for you it's like every success is always down to anyone else but Jorginho, be sure that I'm not the reason why people keep making terrible takes about Jorginho, they simply hate the man and prefer to diminish him after every game. Now that's embarrassing, hating on a Chelsea player even after winning 2 European titles, I know I'm on the right side of history here so you can't blame me for all the stupid takes.

You're definitely not "helping the matter" by coming at me for pointing out how silly the excuses against Jorginho look right now. No other player is getting so much heat when he's winning, yet you choose to have a go at me? How in the world is it my fault that people are still pushing this agenda against Jorginho?

Edited by Gol15
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14 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Saw it in the mirror, Jorgi boy! Funny how you post this minutes after there’s a break in the match! 
searching spanish GIF

Gonna need you on this one, Mr. Munklock!

If @Gol15 is indeed Jorgi boy, then who would @just be? Bakayoko trying to undermine him and regain his position? A fully fit Drinkwater trying to make his best pal Kante notice him again? 😅

So many mysteries around Jorginho, no wonder he's so debatable! 

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3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

The midfielders weren't asked to sit back by the manager so unless they disobeyed Mancini they weren't sitting back. I don't think it would have been a massive issue for a CB to follow Olmo, they even tried a few times but were too passive and slow for Olmo (and Pedri for that sake). Spain's CB followed Immobile around and took him out of the game completely. He also tried to drop deep but they didn't allow him too.

Anyways, my whole point is that they definitly didn't have good games. Olmo and even Morata when he came on toyed with them.

image.thumb.png.f95ab16a99f09fd92ad259e1c6fbf27a.png

I was always told to never go out with a forward if you are in a 2, never leave your partner in a single against an attack as all you do is leave a huge gap for other players to run into, thats often the reason a forward comes deep, to drag a centre back with them. Looking at that still (and you should never ever base anything on one photo) I would say Bonucci is well out of position, though at least Jorginho is looking to cover in behind. 

Like I said though, that photo show nothing, theirs as much chance the ball is being passed forward to one of the Italian players as it is a Spanish one.

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6 minutes ago, Brigadeiro said:

Gonna need you on this one, Mr. Munklock!

If @Gol15 is indeed Jorgi boy, then who would @just be? Bakayoko trying to undermine him and regain his position? A fully fit Drinkwater trying to make his best pal Kante notice him again? 😅

So many mysteries around Jorginho, no wonder he's so debatable! 

I'm guessing Declan Rice. The West Ham army strong it seems.

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

I was always told to never go out with a forward if you are in a 2, never leave your partner in a single against an attack as all you do is leave a huge gap for other players to run into, thats often the reason a forward comes deep, to drag a centre back with them. Looking at that still (and you should never ever base anything on one photo) I would say Bonucci is well out of position, though at least Jorginho is looking to cover in behind. 

Like I said though, that photo show nothing, theirs as much chance the ball is being passed forward to one of the Italian players as it is a Spanish one.

The game has definitly evolved a lot since me and I suspect you were taught to play football. These days you press with your entire team and if your old and slow CB's are left behind you are screwed. The whole reason why Spain's press worked so well yesterday was because Garcia & Laporte both pushed up and suffocated Immobile and Italy struggled to get out of their own half because of it.

Another example (taken from Twitter). One of the few examples where Garcia was too slow but you see how aggressively they push up.

image.thumb.png.be6f9939bb918996ce02c68bb0d43464.png

 

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5 minutes ago, Oli said:

Oh gosh, not all this again. I came on here to congratulate him on his penalty. Instead all I see is this constant back and forth. Its getting childish and embarrassing now.

Also you don't help the matter @Gol15 by acting like Jorginho is the most perfect player that ever existed and every success of our team is down to him. It's almost as though you are related to him or he's sponsoring you. I'm not blaming you as you are trying to stick up for him, but I can also see why this thread just keeps continuing day in day out like this, because of that. 

I found it annoying at first but I'm kind of catching the bug myself, I mean obviously I know he's not perfect infact I'm not even against replacing him if we find a suitable player (no not Declan Rice) but the sheer amount of excuses being rolled out to play him down is getting ridiculous. He's the only regular on both the Chelsea and Italy sides on their (convincing) runs to European finals but it's being portrayed as just a coincidence/his teammates are carrying him.

I don't even disagree with some of the assessments of his weaknesses but the mental gymnastics to downplay anything good he does (one of which playing a key role in getting us the second biggest trophy in football, maybe first given the decline of international football) doesn't sit great with me.

It's getting to the "Mount's a teachers pet" and "Sarri's playing Hudson Odoi under duress" levels.

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9 minutes ago, Argo said:

I found it annoying at first but I'm kind of catching the bug myself, I mean obviously I know he's not perfect infact I'm not even against replacing him if we find a suitable player (no not Declan Rice) but the sheer amount of excuses being rolled out to play him down is getting ridiculous. He's the only regular on both the Chelsea and Italy sides on their (convincing) runs to European finals but it's being portrayed as just a coincidence/his teammates are carrying him.

I don't even disagree with some of the assessments of his weaknesses but the mental gymnastics to downplay anything good he does (one of which playing a key role in getting us the second biggest trophy in football, maybe first given the decline of international football) doesn't sit great with me.

It's getting to the "Mount's a teachers pet" and "Sarri's playing Hudson Odoi under duress" levels.

Thank you! Nobody is saying that he's perfect, but he's without a doubt a good player and it hurts to see that so many are never going to give him the props he deserves.

Literally broke a record for interception/ball recoveries last night and people just can't be happy for him, they simply can't help but to push any kind of a negative rhetoric towards him, I think Declan Rice has less number of interceptions in 5 games in this Euro than what Jorginho had in the last game, for me the guy from Leeds Philips is having a better tournament than Rice.

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30 minutes ago, Sindre said:

The game has definitly evolved a lot since me and I suspect you were taught to play football. These days you press with your entire team and if your old and slow CB's are left behind you are screwed. The whole reason why Spain's press worked so well yesterday was because Garcia & Laporte both pushed up and suffocated Immobile and Italy struggled to get out of their own half because of it.

Another example (taken from Twitter). One of the few examples where Garcia was too slow but you see how aggressively they push up.

image.thumb.png.be6f9939bb918996ce02c68bb0d43464.png

 

On your first point, I fully agree with that ha ha...

But with Italy having two old slow CB`s I would have thought the midfields role was to cover any space in ahead of them, especially as Spain didnt play with a conventional striker so the CB`s had no reference, you really wouldnt want 2 older CB`s like that chasing up the pitch in any situation and its what Spain tried to take advantage of. At least on Italian midfield should have been taking that space between the lines away from Spain the instant the forward came back out, any other Italian players tracking Spanish players into that space also otherwise you end up with one CB covering a flood of attackers.

I know football has evolved but I`m fairly sure the old rules for an ageing/low defence will be the same, they will always hold a fairly deep line, should never come out chasing attackers away from their line etc.

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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

On your first point, I fully agree with that ha ha...

But with Italy having two old slow CB`s I would have thought the midfields role was to cover any space in ahead of them, especially as Spain didnt play with a conventional striker so the CB`s had no reference, you really wouldnt want 2 older CB`s like that chasing up the pitch in any situation and its what Spain tried to take advantage of. At least on Italian midfield should have been taking that space between the lines away from Spain the instant the forward came back out, any other Italian players tracking Spanish players into that space also otherwise you end up with one CB covering a flood of attackers.

I know football has evolved but I`m fairly sure the old rules for an ageing/low defence will be the same, they will always hold a fairly deep line, should never come out chasing attackers away from their line etc.

Alright so I pretty much think we agree then mate.

Perhaps the big issue was that Mancini wanted his midfield and attack to press high without realizing his old CB's couldn't keep up. And since Jorginho was the only midfielder that were holding so to speak he was always outnumbered when he had to mark Pedri and Olmo who had been able to free himself from Bonucci and Chiellini.

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56 minutes ago, Oli said:

Oh gosh, not all this again. I came on here to congratulate him on his penalty. Instead all I see is this constant back and forth. Its getting childish and embarrassing now.

Also you don't help the matter @Gol15 by acting like Jorginho is the most perfect player that ever existed and every success of our team is down to him. It's almost as though you are related to him or he's sponsoring you. I'm not blaming you as you are trying to stick up for him, but I can also see why this thread just keeps continuing day in day out like this, because of that. 

The crazy part with Jorginho is his fans don't understand what he bring to the table. So they kept praising him for the wrong things. 

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Cringey is Jorginho not having a very good game and having to read things like "Class of his own tonight. Without meaning to offend people... If you cannot see how gifted he is as a player then for me you simply don't understand football." "Jorginho had 8 ball recoveries and 7 interceptions... " etc Most critics came here to mention how well he took his penalty and then the Jorginho lovers came here to render homage to the greatest of them all. If someone is showing any balance in here, it's the critics, who indicated that he was ineffective (as he was) but took his penalty superbly. I think that's more balanced view of his game last night than saying that he was a class above all in last night's match.

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5 minutes ago, RMH said:

Cringey is Jorginho not having a very good game and having to read things like "Class of his own tonight. Without meaning to offend people... If you cannot see how gifted he is as a player then for me you simply don't understand football." "Jorginho had 8 ball recoveries and 7 interceptions... " etc Most critics came here to mention how well he took his penalty and then the Jorginho lovers came here to render homage to the greatest of them all. If someone is showing any balance in here, it's the critics, who indicated that he was ineffective (as he was) but took his penalty superbly. I think that's more balanced view of his game last night than saying that he was a class above all in last night's match.

I've got the popcorn out waiting for the replies to this.

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7 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

I've got the popcorn out waiting for the replies to this.

I mean on the whole Jorginho have been fantastic since February for both us and Italy. I suspect that's what he was refering to when he talked about what a gifted footballer Jorginho is.

I disagree with him being in a class of his own yesterday. Busquets, Pedri and Olmo were all better but I do think he was one of Italy's best players again. But overall in the Euros i'd say Jorginho have been the best midfielder so he deserves a lot of credit for that.

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52 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Alright so I pretty much think we agree then mate.

Perhaps the big issue was that Mancini wanted his midfield and attack to press high without realizing his old CB's couldn't keep up. And since Jorginho was the only midfielder that were holding so to speak he was always outnumbered when he had to mark Pedri and Olmo who had been able to free himself from Bonucci and Chiellini.

Yeah, fully agree with that. Spain took advantage of the fat there was a big space behind the midfield if Italy attacked as the defence sat deep to accommodate the centre backs and no one covering it. One thing it highlights is that we can also use that space if we get to the final, we have clever players and ones with pace that could shred that defensive organistion.

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41 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I mean on the whole Jorginho have been fantastic since February for both us and Italy. I suspect that's what he was refering to when he talked about what a gifted footballer Jorginho is.

I disagree with him being in a class of his own yesterday. Busquets, Pedri and Olmo were all better but I do think he was one of Italy's best players again. But overall in the Euros i'd say Jorginho have been the best midfielder so he deserves a lot of credit for that.

Jorginho was a class of his own yesterday and that's thanks to Spain being an amazing possession based team, without the very talented Pedri and one if not the best DM of all time Busquets he would have had this new record:

E5snpv3WUAQ5GG3?format=jpg&name=medium

 

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Posted (edited)

I don't get all the bickering but to each their own.

Sometimes I think he's more comfortably with the "European" footy style compared to the physical "bullying" in the EPL. Havertz said that (regarding his own perfomances) that there were times he'd be happy that there was a CL game coming up as those were easier for him to play.

 

Edited by weetee
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17 hours ago, goose said:

Often thought about this, if players went on to forums to check out what fans thought. I’m sure they are well warned against it but the temptation bound to be there.

Some may even have been tempted to join. I reckon Jorginho might have been @Malta Blue, that why he lost it and @Gol15 is definitely his brother.

@PloKoon13 is Mikel. I know this because I met him once. I remember him going up to the bar - 5 minutes later I got up for a piss and passed him on the way. 

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4 hours ago, Sindre said:

Neither of them had good games. Neither Bonucci or Chiellini bothered to follow Olmo (the striker) all game meaning he had free reigns in the space between midfield and defence.

You mean like David Luiz regularly used to do? Forget the bigger picture, ignore what's happening around you? Surrender your positioning and defensive shape to follow the ball \ man?

Well, I'm fairly certain that wouldn't have been Mancini's instructions to his centre-halves.

I'm obviously struggling under the misapprehension that the principal role of a "holding" midfielder was to screen and protect that space? Stop your opponent from controlling that area and getting at your back line?

Bonucci and Chiellini were both excellent last night in the face of consistent pressure in and around their box. They have been all tournament. They are as different to David Luiz as you can get, (and if you're Italian that is something to be thankful for),  tremendous centre-backs.

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3 hours ago, Brigadeiro said:

Gonna need you on this one, Mr. Munklock!

If @Gol15 is indeed Jorgi boy, then who would @just be? Bakayoko trying to undermine him and regain his position? A fully fit Drinkwater trying to make his best pal Kante notice him again? 😅

So many mysteries around Jorginho, no wonder he's so debatable! 

I am actually Mrs Gilmour. Billy Hoddle's mum.

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18 hours ago, Valerie said:

Imagine how Jorginho would feel if he bothered to read this thread :wink:

I think he would either get a restraining court order put on Gol 15 or, he might hire a hitman (sorry hit person), to shoot me. Depends who he was more worried about.

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22 minutes ago, just said:

You mean like David Luiz regularly used to do?

No, Thiago Silva in his Milan and early PSG days or Carvalho in his prime with us to name two examples. Read the play, anticipate chances to get infront of the striker and make an interception which not only gets possession back but can often be a useful tool on the counter (case in point of the top of my head Joe Cole's goal vs Liverpool in the UCL, where Ricky's sharp thinking set off a chain of events that led to the goal).

32 minutes ago, just said:

Bonucci and Chiellini were both excellent last night in the face of consistent pressure in and around their box. They have been all tournament. They are as different to David Luiz as you can get, (and if you're Italian that is something to be thankful for),  tremendous centre-backs.

That could quite easily describe Luiz's performance in Munich aswell.

Actually Bonucci has/had a reputation for being a very rash defender, and it came to the fore most when he went to Milan for a season.

Strangely enough the way him and Chilleni compliment eachother reminds me similarly to how Thiago and Luiz did for the Brazil national team.

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21 minutes ago, just said:

I think he would either get a restraining court order put on Gol 15 or, he might hire a hitman (sorry hit person), to shoot me. Depends who he was more worried about.

Hit person 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣..

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48 minutes ago, just said:

 

I'm obviously struggling under the misapprehension that the principal role of a "holding" midfielder was to screen and protect that space? Stop your opponent from controlling that area and getting at your back line?

 

If you had watched the game you would know that Jorginho had been good doing that as well, otherwise he wouldn't have great defensive stats... I know it's easy to ignore whatever doesn't suit your narrative but this argument that Jorginho doesn't protect the backline is so blown out of proportion and it doesn't even make sense anymore, how was it, that we only play with a back 3 because Jorginho can't play in a 4-3-3? LOL

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