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Jorginho is a Blue

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

He was constantly getting the players to lift and keep up the effort in the press in the 2nd half, he's turning out to be an excellent leader. 

There was times he literally lead by example and started the press himself.

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When La Zoumance ran out into there half and lost the ball, Jorginho got absoutely done for pace it looked like and then absoutely gave it everything to the point he looked like he was going to fall over sprinting back towards the player and managed to pressure the Ajax player  into passing it to tomori and then without stopping started pointing for tomori to pass it to I think azpi which he did,and then screaming and pointing at azpi to pass it alonso and we played out there press beautifully.. that’s why he is so much more than the quick passing which he played a few lovely ones in that second half the speed of that pass to michy for might to shoot just outsid the box was brilliant. Some player for one player. 

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1 hour ago, Brutos said:


Love it I watch him closely each game and this stats are exactly what I expect his positioning is so good it's frightening how good it is actually

there was a reason why Pep wanted Jorginho & I am sure it wasn't because of his name

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8 hours ago, dkw said:

That can't be right, we've been told he does absolutely nothing defensively by experts.... 

I think his defensive side has improved massively this season, he always makes interceptions now, last season it was really poor. 

Because we went from the likes of Kante who was a superb ball winner who could break up play when he was playing deep, and Matic who did a very good job protecting the back 4 to Jorginho who just couldn't cut it there last season. 

He's come on leaps and bounds and that's without Kante. 

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8 hours ago, Slojo said:

I think his defensive side has improved massively this season, he always makes interceptions now, last season it was really poor. 

Because we went from the likes of Kante who was a superb ball winner who could break up play when he was playing deep, and Matic who did a very good job protecting the back 4 to Jorginho who just couldn't cut it there last season. 

He's come on leaps and bounds and that's without Kante. 

I think the best thing that happened for him was Sarri leaving. 

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Sarri always had this idea that Jorginho should play like Pirlo when he's actually much closer to Busquets but without the diving.

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10 hours ago, GhostOfDembaBa said:

I think the best thing that happened for him was Sarri leaving. 

Possibly, but I think getting used to a new league was also a major factor here. 

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1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Possibly, but I think getting used to a new league was also a major factor here. 

Yeah I think there’s some confirmation bias in the view that the improvement of jorginho, Kovacic, the team in general, is all down to Sarri leaving. There may be something to it but the bigger factor for all three is, as you say, that they were adapting to a new league/country, which can’t be easy. We should have cut them all a bit  more slack to be fair. I was overly harsh on Jorginho.

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1 hour ago, Dean said:

Yeah I think there’s some confirmation bias in the view that the improvement of jorginho, Kovacic, the team in general, is all down to Sarri leaving. There may be something to it but the bigger factor for all three is, as you say, that they were adapting to a new league/country, which can’t be easy. We should have cut them all a bit  more slack to be fair. I was overly harsh on Jorginho.

I don't think he's that much different to what he was in the first and final 3rds of last season.

Its just because Lampard's done the awkward thing of keeping Jorginho in the exact same position Sarri did they have to say he's improved because the only other alternative is admit Sarri was right all along.

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I don't think he's that much different to what he was in the first and final 3rds of last season.
Its just because Lampard's done the awkward thing of keeping Jorginho in the exact same position Sarri did they have to say he's improved because the only other alternative is admit Sarri was right all along.
Pretty much this, Lampard has come in and did exactly what Sarri did with Jorginho and but it's awkward to say he doesn't know what he's doing. There is some bias in some people's view if you go back in this thread you can see the comments. He's playing exactly like he did last season its just that some fans and pundits have Lampard glasses on now. They don't factor in new country taking time to adjust and more.

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Just now, Brutos said:
1 hour ago, Argo said:
I don't think he's that much different to what he was in the first and final 3rds of last season.
Its just because Lampard's done the awkward thing of keeping Jorginho in the exact same position Sarri did they have to say he's improved because the only other alternative is admit Sarri was right all along.

Pretty much this, Lampard has come in and did exactly what Sarri did with Jorginho and but it's awkward to say he doesn't know what he's doing. There is some bias in some people's view if you go back in this thread you can see the comments. He's playing exactly like he did last season its just that some fans and pundits have Lampard glasses on now. They don't factor in new country taking time to adjust and more.

Super Frank is also wearing tracksuits on match day, but I don't hear the outcry of sloppiness - I guess that was reserved for Don Maurizio - look there are a lot of hypocrites & I am one too - I admit this because I am a very myopic Blue's Fan & I let my standards slide for Chelsea players - getting back to Jorginho, it's funny I don't hear the same pundits making those claims as they did last season - I am glad that Jorginho has quieted his critics

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2 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't think he's that much different to what he was in the first and final 3rds of last season.

Its just because Lampard's done the awkward thing of keeping Jorginho in the exact same position Sarri did they have to say he's improved because the only other alternative is admit Sarri was right all along.

 

You're wrong in my opinion. Jorginho may be playing in the same position but he's being asked to play differently, because the whole team is being asked to play differently, and I'm not just talking about formation, which seems to have moved generally from a 433 to a 4231.

 

Sarri's method is to take spontaneity out of the game. He wants to be the star of the show rather then the players. It's all about the system. He isn't alone among Italian coaches.

 

Training was meticulous, and repetitive, to the point where the players almost lost the will to live. Rudiger said last term the meetings were arduous and boring, where they talked about tactics. There's a set pattern of play for every position on the pitch, so you know exactly what to do with the ball wherever you receive it. It's drilled into the players in the hope that it becomes second nature. Personally, I prefer managers that let their players play and rely on their instincts a little bit, like Alex Ferguson did. You listen to Ferguson's old players and they all say he didn't give them too much instruction. He was more focused on the mental side of the game.

 

Jorginho last season passed the ball a lot. He broke PL records, particularly at the start of the season. It was dull as ditch water, but I suppose the rest of the team were trying to adapt to Sarri's methods. Lampard gives his players much more freedom, which is why you see Kovacic in particular playing so much better. When a player gets the ball, they should be relying on their instinct or intuition rather than having to think, and too many times last season we saw players thinking every time they got the ball, trying to obey Sarri's instructions, trying to remember exactly what they'd been told. This is Sarri's method. He drills it into you, and after time it gets better as players have to think less because they become more accustomed. Let's not kid ourselves about last season. The football was sh*t, by and large, really f**king sh*t. Pass pass pass pass pass. We couldn't create a chance, against loads of sh*t sides. There was no excitement. Already this season the football's miles better, and I challenge anyone to defy that. I actually look forward to seeing us play. Imagine that.

 

Right now my favourite player in this team is Kovacic. Amazing what can happen when you let somebody play. The improvement is vast. That's not to say however Lampard's a better coach than Sarri or that he'll prove more successful. He may well fail, but let's not kids ourselves that Lampard's just sending Jorginho out to play the same way. Remember also, Jorginho relies on the movement of his teammates, and they're not being sent out to play the same way either, so what you're seeing is vastly different. It's a different team with a different system and a different style of play. It's more free-flowing, less defensive, less boring.

 

Jorginho isn't my favourite player. I get that he's a good influence behind the scenes, has leadership skills, and plays for the team. He's a good player but against Burnley there were loads of occasions where his defensive frailties and lack of pace were exposed. He just got away with it. I also find his forward passing gets way too much praise and is distinctly average. He's good at what he does, he's got a good brain, he's technically sound, he's good in tight situations and his short passing game is great. He's also committed. I like him, or rather, I've grown to like him, but I rate him a lot less than most, including the manager it seems, and thankfully for you lot it's his opinion that counts and not mine.

 

He's important to this team because of the position he plays. To put it simply, he anchors while others have more licence, and he's the player most capable of doing that. Is he a great player? Not for me and I don't care a hoot what any stat says, but the manager's happy and I'm happy, because we're playing well, winning, and we have a good vibe, and I think Jorginho has played an important role in that, but is he half as good as people say? Not for me but it's all about opinions I guess.

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5 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

You're wrong in my opinion. Jorginho may be playing in the same position but he's being asked to play differently, because the whole team is being asked to play differently, and I'm not just talking about formation, which seems to have moved generally from a 433 to a 4231.

 

Sarri's method is to take spontaneity out of the game. He wants to be the star of the show rather then the players. It's all about the system. He isn't alone among Italian coaches.

 

Training was meticulous, and repetitive, to the point where the players almost lost the will to live. Rudiger said last term the meetings were arduous and boring, where they talked about tactics. There's a set pattern of play for every position on the pitch, so you know exactly what to do with the ball wherever you receive it. It's drilled into the players in the hope that it becomes second nature. Personally, I prefer managers that let their players play and rely on their instincts a little bit, like Alex Ferguson did. You listen to Ferguson's old players and they all say he didn't give them too much instruction. He was more focused on the mental side of the game.

 

Jorginho last season passed the ball a lot. He broke PL records, particularly at the start of the season. It was dull as ditch water, but I suppose the rest of the team were trying to adapt to Sarri's methods. Lampard gives his players much more freedom, which is why you see Kovacic in particular playing so much better. When a player gets the ball, they should be relying on their instinct or intuition rather than having to think, and too many times last season we saw players thinking every time they got the ball, trying to obey Sarri's instructions, trying to remember exactly what they'd been told. This is Sarri's method. He drills it into you, and after time it gets better as players have to think less because they become more accustomed. Let's not kid ourselves about last season. The football was sh*t, by and large, really f**king sh*t. Pass pass pass pass pass. We couldn't create a chance, against loads of sh*t sides. There was no excitement. Already this season the football's miles better, and I challenge anyone to defy that. I actually look forward to seeing us play. Imagine that.

 

Right now my favourite player in this team is Kovacic. Amazing what can happen when you let somebody play. The improvement is vast. That's not to say however Lampard's a better coach than Sarri or that he'll prove more successful. He may well fail, but let's not kids ourselves that Lampard's just sending Jorginho out to play the same way. Remember also, Jorginho relies on the movement of his teammates, and they're not being sent out to play the same way either, so what you're seeing is vastly different. It's a different team with a different system and a different style of play. It's more free-flowing, less defensive, less boring.

 

Jorginho isn't my favourite player. I get that he's a good influence behind the scenes, has leadership skills, and plays for the team. He's a good player but against Burnley there were loads of occasions where his defensive frailties and lack of pace were exposed. He just got away with it. I also find his forward passing gets way too much praise and is distinctly average. He's good at what he does, he's got a good brain, he's technically sound, he's good in tight situations and his short passing game is great. He's also committed. I like him, or rather, I've grown to like him, but I rate him a lot less than most, including the manager it seems, and thankfully for you lot it's his opinion that counts and not mine.

 

He's important to this team because of the position he plays. To put it simply, he anchors while others have more licence, and he's the player most capable of doing that. Is he a great player? Not for me and I don't care a hoot what any stat says, but the manager's happy and I'm happy, because we're playing well, winning, and we have a good vibe, and I think Jorginho has played an important role in that, but is he half as good as people say? Not for me but it's all about opinions I guess.

Jorghy is 10 times better than Kovacic.

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8 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

You're wrong in my opinion. Jorginho may be playing in the same position but he's being asked to play differently, because the whole team is being asked to play differently, and I'm not just talking about formation, which seems to have moved generally from a 433 to a 4231.

 

Sarri's method is to take spontaneity out of the game. He wants to be the star of the show rather then the players. It's all about the system. He isn't alone among Italian coaches.

 

Training was meticulous, and repetitive, to the point where the players almost lost the will to live. Rudiger said last term the meetings were arduous and boring, where they talked about tactics. There's a set pattern of play for every position on the pitch, so you know exactly what to do with the ball wherever you receive it. It's drilled into the players in the hope that it becomes second nature. Personally, I prefer managers that let their players play and rely on their instincts a little bit, like Alex Ferguson did. You listen to Ferguson's old players and they all say he didn't give them too much instruction. He was more focused on the mental side of the game.

 

Jorginho last season passed the ball a lot. He broke PL records, particularly at the start of the season. It was dull as ditch water, but I suppose the rest of the team were trying to adapt to Sarri's methods. Lampard gives his players much more freedom, which is why you see Kovacic in particular playing so much better. When a player gets the ball, they should be relying on their instinct or intuition rather than having to think, and too many times last season we saw players thinking every time they got the ball, trying to obey Sarri's instructions, trying to remember exactly what they'd been told. This is Sarri's method. He drills it into you, and after time it gets better as players have to think less because they become more accustomed. Let's not kid ourselves about last season. The football was sh*t, by and large, really f**king sh*t. Pass pass pass pass pass. We couldn't create a chance, against loads of sh*t sides. There was no excitement. Already this season the football's miles better, and I challenge anyone to defy that. I actually look forward to seeing us play. Imagine that.

 

Right now my favourite player in this team is Kovacic. Amazing what can happen when you let somebody play. The improvement is vast. That's not to say however Lampard's a better coach than Sarri or that he'll prove more successful. He may well fail, but let's not kids ourselves that Lampard's just sending Jorginho out to play the same way. Remember also, Jorginho relies on the movement of his teammates, and they're not being sent out to play the same way either, so what you're seeing is vastly different. It's a different team with a different system and a different style of play. It's more free-flowing, less defensive, less boring.

 

Jorginho isn't my favourite player. I get that he's a good influence behind the scenes, has leadership skills, and plays for the team. He's a good player but against Burnley there were loads of occasions where his defensive frailties and lack of pace were exposed. He just got away with it. I also find his forward passing gets way too much praise and is distinctly average. He's good at what he does, he's got a good brain, he's technically sound, he's good in tight situations and his short passing game is great. He's also committed. I like him, or rather, I've grown to like him, but I rate him a lot less than most, including the manager it seems, and thankfully for you lot it's his opinion that counts and not mine.

 

He's important to this team because of the position he plays. To put it simply, he anchors while others have more licence, and he's the player most capable of doing that. Is he a great player? Not for me and I don't care a hoot what any stat says, but the manager's happy and I'm happy, because we're playing well, winning, and we have a good vibe, and I think Jorginho has played an important role in that, but is he half as good as people say? Not for me but it's all about opinions I guess.

I explained it pretty poorly, I did mean positions on the pitch and by not much different I mean to the level of his performances. I felt last season he started and ended very well but had that dip in the middle.

However we had the whole argument last season that Sarri was ruining Kante and should play him in his "best position" and now Lampard has decided also to put Kante in a more advanced position with Jorginho Infront of the back four we don't hear a dickiebird, that was mainly what I was getting at.

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42 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

You're wrong in my opinion. Jorginho may be playing in the same position but he's being asked to play differently, because the whole team is being asked to play differently, and I'm not just talking about formation, which seems to have moved generally from a 433 to a 4231.

 

Sarri's method is to take spontaneity out of the game. He wants to be the star of the show rather then the players. It's all about the system. He isn't alone among Italian coaches.

 

Training was meticulous, and repetitive, to the point where the players almost lost the will to live. Rudiger said last term the meetings were arduous and boring, where they talked about tactics. There's a set pattern of play for every position on the pitch, so you know exactly what to do with the ball wherever you receive it. It's drilled into the players in the hope that it becomes second nature. Personally, I prefer managers that let their players play and rely on their instincts a little bit, like Alex Ferguson did. You listen to Ferguson's old players and they all say he didn't give them too much instruction. He was more focused on the mental side of the game.

 

Jorginho last season passed the ball a lot. He broke PL records, particularly at the start of the season. It was dull as ditch water, but I suppose the rest of the team were trying to adapt to Sarri's methods. Lampard gives his players much more freedom, which is why you see Kovacic in particular playing so much better. When a player gets the ball, they should be relying on their instinct or intuition rather than having to think, and too many times last season we saw players thinking every time they got the ball, trying to obey Sarri's instructions, trying to remember exactly what they'd been told. This is Sarri's method. He drills it into you, and after time it gets better as players have to think less because they become more accustomed. Let's not kid ourselves about last season. The football was sh*t, by and large, really f**king sh*t. Pass pass pass pass pass. We couldn't create a chance, against loads of sh*t sides. There was no excitement. Already this season the football's miles better, and I challenge anyone to defy that. I actually look forward to seeing us play. Imagine that.

 

Right now my favourite player in this team is Kovacic. Amazing what can happen when you let somebody play. The improvement is vast. That's not to say however Lampard's a better coach than Sarri or that he'll prove more successful. He may well fail, but let's not kids ourselves that Lampard's just sending Jorginho out to play the same way. Remember also, Jorginho relies on the movement of his teammates, and they're not being sent out to play the same way either, so what you're seeing is vastly different. It's a different team with a different system and a different style of play. It's more free-flowing, less defensive, less boring.

 

Jorginho isn't my favourite player. I get that he's a good influence behind the scenes, has leadership skills, and plays for the team. He's a good player but against Burnley there were loads of occasions where his defensive frailties and lack of pace were exposed. He just got away with it. I also find his forward passing gets way too much praise and is distinctly average. He's good at what he does, he's got a good brain, he's technically sound, he's good in tight situations and his short passing game is great. He's also committed. I like him, or rather, I've grown to like him, but I rate him a lot less than most, including the manager it seems, and thankfully for you lot it's his opinion that counts and not mine.

 

He's important to this team because of the position he plays. To put it simply, he anchors while others have more licence, and he's the player most capable of doing that. Is he a great player? Not for me and I don't care a hoot what any stat says, but the manager's happy and I'm happy, because we're playing well, winning, and we have a good vibe, and I think Jorginho has played an important role in that, but is he half as good as people say? Not for me but it's all about opinions I guess.

I like your take on Italian Gaffers. I would say you are very on point in that regards. I remember Zola saying the same thing in an interview, when describing the differences between English & Italian footie.

Edited by robdog

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