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Jorginho is a Blue


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9 hours ago, TrueBlueSeaFC87 said:

What does he do for this team that Havertz can't?  I hate that we're playing Havertz out of position to accommodate Jorginho.

Jorginho has been playing the same position for 3 seasons now. Lampard is intentionally putting Havertz wide and keeping CHO on the bench, we could play 4-2-3-1 with Havertz in the middle if Lampard wanted to, this has nothing to do with Jorginho.

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4 minutes ago, evissy said:

Jorginho did well in the match. I feel Alisson have practiced the penalties the way Jorginho and Fernandes do it. As every keeper in the world should. 8/10 is pretty good from Jorginho. 

I think he was pretty average, ok defensively but didn't control the possession and didn't make enough passes forward, though it can be said that even our best players struggled in that first half.

Without the red card we maybe could have adapted during the game but the game was practically lost as soon as the second half started.

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9 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Just our luck Sarri got sacked otherwise he would be at Juve now i reckon. When the game gets opened up he gets so badly found out due to lack of pace and strength.

That's the sad truth. Have always hoped Jorginho would be the real deal and also hoped he would have enough about him to be a leader, but sadly he goes missing when it matters in big games and the strength of the squad we now have, I can't see him getting too many games when everyone is fit and available.

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Bizarre to think that he's only eighteen months younger than Jordan Henderson.

To be honest there's not much point in him playing in a match in which the opposition are going to have the majority of possession. It was especially the case when we went down to ten men (and 2-0) - obviously Tomori or Azpilicueta had to come on to fill the position vacated by Christensen (Havertz being the most likely sacrifice), but I probably would have brought on a centre-forward to replace Jorginho. Kanté and Kovacic are far more suited to playing in a midfield two and it would have given us an out ball we were sorely lacking in the second half.

I do wonder whether Frank looked at Thiago on Sunday and thought "Oh, that's what Jorginho is supposed to do."

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He has to mix up his penalties because keepers know now he will make that little jump. This technique relies heavily on the keeper to do the first move but when the keepers doesn't move it leaves Jorghino stuck making it a gamble to score. 

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2 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Bizarre to think that he's only eighteen months younger than Jordan Henderson.

To be honest there's not much point in him playing in a match in which the opposition are going to have the majority of possession. It was especially the case when we went down to ten men (and 2-0) - obviously Tomori or Azpilicueta had to come on to fill the position vacated by Christensen (Havertz being the most likely sacrifice), but I probably would have brought on a centre-forward to replace Jorginho. Kanté and Kovacic are far more suited to playing in a midfield two and it would have given us an out ball we were sorely lacking in the second half.

I do wonder whether Frank looked at Thiago on Sunday and thought "Oh, that's what Jorginho is supposed to do."

We tried long balls to Havertz but it just wasn't sticking and I think the case was we didnt have Giroud up top. I believe if we had Giroud in the starting 11 Lampard may have sacrificed Jorginho and played the long ball to Giroud.

I really don't understand the plaudits Thiago's been getting for his 45 minute showing, he was world class against us for Bayern but was actually quite poor against us for Liverpool. Most of his passes were just sideway balls amongst the defense and his ball forwards were underwhelming as he misplaced a few in addition to giving away a penalty.

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4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Sky Sports reporting Arsenal are interested in signing Jorginho. 

Not sure I'd want to sell him to a direct rival and if we did I would want at least £50m for him. 

Oh Dear. Who will we miss more? Jorginho or @Gol15 when he departs to join a Gooners Forum!!

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3 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Every player is different, we "sold" D.Luiz at 32-33 years old, I had no problem with that move at all. Same with Willian.

I'm not particularly fussed about the age of those two players. From what I could see Luiz and Willian were both essentially the same physical specimen they were five years previously.

Now while Luiz and Willian are about as contrasting as any two players you're likely to find (other than the hair I suppose), none of this is particularly relevant (and yes, I realise 'I started it').

Jorginho is exclusively useful as the deepest midfielder in a three, i.e. with two other players directly in front of him - basically right in front of the back four, and slotting between the two centre backs in possession (which allows the full-backs to advance, knowing they have cover). There are two issues there:

1) If you are going to have a deep-lying midfield playmaker as part of your strategy, he either must be capable of effectively covering the area between defence and midfield when the opposition has the ball, or the quality he provides on the ball must be worth having that area covered by someone defensively deficient. Jorginho provides neither.

2) The consequence of accommodating Jorginho in his favoured position (in which he provides no real benefit to the team) is that we essentially force Kanté, our one true world-class player*, out of position. Kanté is capable of being useful more or less anywhere, but he is certainly most useful when you allow him to cover a large amount of central space (e.g. in a midfield two). Kanté is also more useful than Jorginho in Jorginho's favoured position, even if it is not Kanté's own.

Now Arteta seems to be (for the time being at least) intent on setting up Arsenal in a 3-4-3 - Jorginho has no place in that setup. He has no utility, and is in fact more likely to be a liability.

A (somewhat parenthetical) thought is that some people seem to see what they want to see in certain players - "Kepa is good with his feet", "Jorginho is a world-class passer", "Zouma is a bad passer", etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I am still reserving judgement on any new signings (not without high hopes).

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I don't understand why people want him sold. At his very worse he's still a good squad player and gives you a different option. 

There's a reason Pep was interested and not surprised too see Areta is sniffing around too. Selling him any top 6 team is a bad idea, especially worse if we sell to either City or Arsenal as he will fit in very well under those systems.

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40 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

That's a very very rude thing to say...

How so?

You must admit that you come across as ever so slightly obsessed with our No.5.

In fact such adulation has not been seen on this Forum since some of my contributions back in the day on Joey Cole and later a young Josh McEachran!!

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2 minutes ago, Nibs said:

How so?

You must admit that you come across as ever so slightly obsessed with our No.5.

In fact such adulation has not been seen on this Forum since some of my contributions back in the day on Joey Cole and later a young Josh McEachran!!

If there hadn't been so many people against him I wouldn't have the need to defend him in the first place, my behaviour is a reaction only and I have defended other players as well, till the point I couldn't do it anymore.

If you don't understand how rude it is to tell to another fan that he should or would leave to an Arsenal forum because you hate the user about the same as you hate Jorginho then there is not much to talk about.

I have said in the past that selling Jorginho is the best option if he isn't going to start games (if his role is diminished), but I don't want him to go to Arsenal, sell him to another league in that case. Sell him to Ac Milan and buy Sandro Tonali... I don't even know why I talk about my views to someone that just sent me to an Arsenal forum, feel free to ignore me or whatever...

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4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

 

If you don't understand how rude it is to tell to another fan that he should or would leave to an Arsenal forum because you hate the user about the same as you hate Jorginho then there is not much to talk about.

 

No hate here. It was only in jest. You need to get used to British humour (or my humour in this case).

No hard feelings. 

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