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Jorginho is a Blue


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1 hour ago, Nibs said:

Good footballers adapt and really good footballers can play anywhere. Sure, they have their favoured positions, but they can still play a number of positions and still be good.

Kante's form might have dipped but he is a very good footballer and showed last night, that he can do a better job than (the talented but rather limited) Jorginho.

No he isn't. 

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20 minutes ago, coco said:

 

Kante really isn't a lone deep-midfield type of player and it's not like he's 21 he's 29... I have nothing to let go of, it's just basic football knowledge really...

People think that Kante is very versatile, he's not, you get the best out of him by playing counter-attacking football with a DM that has good passing and good positional awareness while Kante is just running and winning the ball, this is why he is a central midfielder and not a defensive midfielder, Kante has always been a box-to-box midfielder or a ball-winning midfielder.

Put him as the lone midfielder and he loses his main qualities as a player, this is all basic and nothing new people know this... I hope.

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Amazing, 20 minute performance and that shows that Kante can do the job better? Jorginho has one bad game and immediately the forum is on his back saying he's sh*t. 

Kante puts in bang average performances for a year and the argument is always "bUt HeS wOrLd ClAsS". Just wait until the next game Kante doesn't perform well and it will be the same over and over. 

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I thought Jorginho was supposed to do the things that Mikel did on the ball while also providing a defensive presence? (bear in mind floating variables)

I thought the entire point of Jorginho was to evade the press in the way that Mikel did?

I thought the entire point of Jorginho was to embody all the worst accusations (and none of the strengths) levelled at Mikel and still be called a genius?
 

 

It's such a shame that Antonio Conte is a hack. f**k that man forever. He will be irrelevant in five years, regardless of whether he employs his pretend hair (Chelsea are already trained with our pretend regista).

Edited by PloKoon13
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2 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

I thought Jorginho was supposed to do the things that Mikel did on the ball while also providing a defensive presence? (bear in mind floating variables)

I thought the entire point of Jorginho was to evade the press in the way that Mikel did?

I thought the entire point of Jorginho was to embody all the worst accusations (and none of the strengths) levelled at Mikel and still be called a genius?
 

 

It's such a shame that Antonio Conte is a hack. f**k that man forever. He will be irrelevant in five years, regardless of whether he employs his pretend hair (Chelsea are already trained with our pretend regista).

Jorginho is a better DM than Kante by far, simply because he plays that position and Kante doesn't, it's that simple. He is one of the best "registas" out there, his stats prove it, in 2 seasons he had the most passes into the final third, some of the highest amounts of ball recoveries of all DMs in the league and so on... Not his fault that in his first season we didn't have a striker and that in the second we had a weak defense and keeper...

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24 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho is a better DM than Kante by far, simply because he plays that position and Kante doesn't, it's that simple. He is one of the best "registas" out there, his stats prove it, in 2 seasons he had the most passes into the final third, some of the highest amounts of ball recoveries of all DMs in the league and so on... Not his fault that in his first season we didn't have a striker and that in the second we had a weak defense and keeper...

I love you @Gol15, you are here constantly just shredding Jorginho haters with truth and stats everyday. I read all of these and occasionally try fight a case with you against the absolute delusion with world class Kante and hate of Jorginho but I am lazy and usually just lurk as I’m a stoner. I literally can’t believe This has happened with Kante because I remember when there was PSG rumours last summer for 86m and I felt insulted and annoyed they even tried to get him. Fast forward to now and bar 1 performance in the super cup against Liverpool Where I thought he’s amazing and fit again and then he got injured again, for lampard i don’t recognise him!! I really don’t though sometimes I’m watching him closely and really trying to be objective and see what he offers currently and I can’t see it, he’s not winning duels, he looks like he just charges at people but with no pace like they see him coming from 10 yards away and jumps in the air turning his back. He looks slow, he looks like he’s getting outmuscled in duels, his positioning is so strange, him and Jorginho who I’ve recently realised is guilty of this too they leave huge gaps with bad pressing and huge gaps between the front 3 in the 4-2-3-1.They do a worse job with the space between them and the defense we get counter attacked savagely because of it. The difference is when I ask myself what does Jorginho compared to Kante it’s night and day because Kante offers nothing going both ways at the minute. 

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13 hours ago, Slojo said:

Amazing, 20 minute performance and that shows that Kante can do the job better? Jorginho has one bad game and immediately the forum is on his back saying he's sh*t. 

Kante puts in bang average performances for a year and the argument is always "bUt HeS wOrLd ClAsS". Just wait until the next game Kante doesn't perform well and it will be the same over and over. 

I never said Kante has been playing well, and Jorginho has had more than one bad game. I never said Jorginho was a bad player either, i said he gets found out when the game opens up which is true. His lack of pace and strength gets exposed. Im saying i want to see us try Kante in front of the back four, I dont find Jorginho passing so good that he has to play.

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2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

I never said Kante has been playing well, and Jorginho has had more than one bad game. I never said Jorginho was a bad player either, i said he gets found out when the game opens up which is true. His lack of pace and strength gets exposed. Im saying i want to see us try Kante in front of the back four, I dont find Jorginho passing so good that he has to play.

I wasn't talking about you Jack. 

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What's strange to me is that people are acting like we were losing the game until Jorgi left the pitch. We were up a goal and should've been up two. Then we got another penalty and another present from their keeper. It's not like we got our goals by massively outplaying them. Yes, Jorgi missed a pen and didn't have a good game, but if you didn't sh*t on Mount a short while ago when he missed in the shootout (and generally had a bad game that day), you shouldn't do it to Jorgi now. Also, it's not like we were very good at defending all of a sudden when Kanté came. They had their chances, but were clearly lacking the quality to convert. I feel this is a really strange conversation after a game we won 0:4.

If you must single out a player in a teamgame, consider this: our worst player on the pitch that day was clearly Chillwell. He gave away so many balls and seemed like he didn't even see any of our midfielders to the point where Emerson (!!!) was an improvement and I see what Leicester fans meant when they said he was their weak link last year. But nobody seems to care about that for whatever reason, since the pitchforks are out already and the target is clear.

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I think the discussion boils down to what is the best combination for our midfield and the simple answer is that we don't really have a first choice midfield. We have a number of midfielders who are all operating at a similar level to each other and I include Kante in that conversation. Kante 2 seasons back was world class but unfortunately it seems like the industry he brought to every game especially during his peak years from 2015-2018 has caught up with him, this doesn't mean he isnt a good player anymore it just means he is operating at a more human level which is equivalent to our other midfielders.

They all have strengths and limitations and the challenge for Lampard is to ensure that he uses the right combination as per our opposition, for example against Burnley I can see us playing a high line and majority of game being played in the Burnley half. They will most likely not press us high up the pitch which should not cause us much problem in playing out from the back, as a result I would play Kante as the CDM with Kai and Mount as the 2 Number 8's.

Alternatively against better opposition where we will not be afforded the luxury to play out from the back and we will need to wrestle control in midfield I would go with a more natural CDM in Jorginho and have Kante and Kova as the 2 other Central midfielders. I think one of the main reasons Jorginho has been playing regularly in the first 11 is because he is our only natural CDM currently fit (Billy being the other), I agree he has his limitations but from a positional stand point he is elite & not to forget his organization and leadership skills.

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1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

What's strange to me is that people are acting like we were losing the game until Jorgi left the pitch.

I can't believe how selective some people's memory is. We got dominated by Krasnodar for large stretches of the game and were lucky not to have conceded. The first goal was a howler by the GK, the penalty that lead to the 2-0 was questionable and then Krasnodar just gave up. We could have easily drawn or even lost that game. I am not saying it was because of Jorginho but we played very badly in that game and the score line shouldn't fool us into thinking we did well. Considering Krasnodar missed a lot of their starters due to covid quarantine and injuries I really don't think we can be happy with the performance whatsoever.

Edited by reparto corse
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22 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

I can't believe how selective some people's memory is. We got dominated by Krasnodar for large stretches of the game and were lucky not to have conceded. The first goal was a howler by the GK, the penalty that lead to the 2-0 was questionable and then Krasnodar just gave up. We could have easily drawn or even lost that game. I am not saying it was because of Jorginho but we played very badly in that game and the score line shouldn't fool us into thinking we did well. Considering Krasnodar missed a lot of their starters due to covid quarantine and injuries I really don't think we can be happy with the performance whatsoever.

We won because we simply have better players. And against an opponent like that if you have a better bench, once those fresh legs are on your team kills the game, we just have a better squad and that was enough, people underestimate having quality players on the bench.

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19 hours ago, Slojo said:

No he isn't. 

Just pure luck that he's a World Cup winner with a couple of PL winners medals? I agree, that he might not be reaching the same heights he once was but if tomorrow, we put both Kante and Jorginho on the transfer list, I know who all the big clubs would be making enquiries for and it ain't Jorgi.

 

19 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

We won because we simply have better players. And against an opponent like that if you have a better bench, once those fresh legs are on your team kills the game, we just have a better squad and that was enough, people underestimate having quality players on the bench.

Is that you admitting that Kante is quality after all?!!

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46 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Just pure luck that he's a World Cup winner with a couple of PL winners medals? I agree, that he might not be reaching the same heights he once was but if tomorrow, we put both Kante and Jorginho on the transfer list, I know who all the big clubs would be making enquiries for and it ain't Jorgi.

 

Is that you admitting that Kante is quality after all?!!

So we're going back to 2 years ago? Well done, great argument right there. 

And given that Jorginho is 28 and technically better, I think you would be surprised. Meanwhile Kante's physical attributes are clearly sinking, which are his main attributes. To even say that Kante is a better footballer means you can't be watching him play. What did he do in the United game on the ball? He was atrocious whenever he had it. You can make every positive argument you want about Kante but you can't say he's a great footballer and better with the ball than Jorginho, it's just not true and delusional. 

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16 minutes ago, Slojo said:

So we're going back to 2 years ago? Well done, great argument right there. 

And given that Jorginho is 28 and technically better, I think you would be surprised. Meanwhile Kante's physical attributes are clearly sinking, which are his main attributes. To even say that Kante is a better footballer means you can't be watching him play. What did he do in the United game on the ball? He was atrocious whenever he had it. You can make every positive argument you want about Kante but you can't say he's a great footballer and better with the ball than Jorginho, it's just not true and delusional. 

I'm too old to piss about with You Tube clips and even if I wasn't, I couldn't be arsed. But you are making Kante out to be another Carlton Palmer - just someone that runs about a lot. Go have a look again at some of the goals he has scored for us and some of the assists he has got. Not even what he is in the team for, but goals against Utd and Liverpool - football that Jorginho just doesn't appear to be capable of.

They both have good games and they both have bad games - but Kante gets more game time and for good reason.

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1 hour ago, reparto corse said:

I can't believe how selective some people's memory is. We got dominated by Krasnodar for large stretches of the game and were lucky not to have conceded. The first goal was a howler by the GK, the penalty that lead to the 2-0 was questionable and then Krasnodar just gave up. We could have easily drawn or even lost that game. I am not saying it was because of Jorginho but we played very badly in that game and the score line shouldn't fool us into thinking we did well. Considering Krasnodar missed a lot of their starters due to covid quarantine and injuries I really don't think we can be happy with the performance whatsoever.

Who says I'm happy with the performance? But we didn't get dominated because they have better players and ours couldn't keep up.

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I find it odd that you @Nibs claim that someone doesn't appreciate Kante but at the same time you and others automatically jump to criticize Jorginho on every possible occasion blaming everything on Jorginho with no real evidence nor nothing... What are you constantly making Jorginho out to be?

You treat one of our players like he hasn't been a vital part of our team for 3 seasons so you're not really an authority when it comes to how people should comment about the players, let that sink in...

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28 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I find it odd that you @Nibs claim that someone doesn't appreciate Kante but at the same time you and others automatically jump to criticize Jorginho on every possible occasion blaming everything on Jorginho with no real evidence nor nothing... What are you constantly making Jorginho out to be?

You treat one of our players like he hasn't been a vital part of our team for 3 seasons so you're not really an authority when it comes to how people should comment about the players, let that sink in...

That's utter rubbish.

I've said Jorginho is a decent player and I praise him when he's had good games and he had some, but IMO, not enough. I'm not alone in recognising his limitations and feel that he is too weak for a number of our PL opponents. 

You just seem to go out of your way to make out that he is a much better player than he actually is by posting endless stats when most of us don't need that. We have all watched enough football to know when a player is contributing enough. As for Kante, I'm not his biggest fan. He has been brilliant, but again he has his limitations and appears to be in decline but just want to stick up for the guy when some seem keen to overlook just how good he has been for us. If you took a straw poll as to who has contributed more to Chelsea - Kante or Jorginho, there is only one winner. Mates of mine of rival clubs - they would all still take Kante in a heartbeat - none of them rave about Jorginho.  

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